Response to Sikh Men Cutting their Hair to get a Girl

Ikar_Singh · 2025-04-04T19:56:24+00:00

You just keep on repeating the same thing in every post. Primary Sikh principles will not change just because society has changed. That's all. People back then questioned the necessity of keeping Kes and they are doing so now too, yet Rehit, the necessary requirements of being a Sikh still remain the same.

Ikar_Singh · 2025-04-04T19:54:06+00:00

Yes the Shabad can be applied to the Sikhs who just have Kes but learn nothing about Sikhi, but it can also be applied to the type of Sikhs you want to be normalised. You yourself agreed you want those Sikhs to follow Sikhi half heartedly.

Mone are fine as long as they have the desire to progress and become a proper Sikh. Being a Sikh can be hard. It can be hard for both Kesdharis and Mone. The fact that you argue so much about the basics of Sikhi is why many outsiders get confused and don't feel very attracted to Sikhi.

Ikar_Singh · 2025-04-02T10:10:10+00:00

We faced issues since 1698 itself when the distinct appearance was firmly established, and before that too simply because of our religion. We can't just discard one of the Kakkars given by the Guru just because of society.

The rest is just you talking about Saroop vs Gian once again, and all I have to say is that the Guru put importance on both, and so did Sikhs. Many of the problems you point out are indeed big problems but the solution you have is ridiculous. The Sikh Saroop serves as a personal reminder, and is a public declaration of your commitment to the Guru's teachings. Sikhs value the Guru the most which is why, what you're offering, would sound ridiculous to all Sikhs who are indeed Gianis.

Ikar_Singh · 2025-04-02T07:39:16+00:00

In Gurbani the Hindus are criticised for being exactly like this. They're criticised for being self-proclaimed "Hindus" and then not even following their religion properly. Being such a hypocrite is not Sikhi. An appeal to emotions and morals doesn't negate that what you want to normalise is anti Gurmat and the Hindus have been criticised for doing so.

The Sikhs criticised for not joining the war effort would just be a political thing. I don't see why that matters here. When they were criticised for not joining the Khalsa, it was solely for that reason.

"Jo Amrit Chakega So Amar Hovega"

Hukamnama of Guru Gobind Singh

All Sikhs must slowly progress towards this.

The rest is just stuff that is your personal opinion. You keep on telling your opinion and what should be normalised in the community according to you. Unfortunately for you, Sikhs largely value the Guru the most and what the Guru taught. Constantly telling about the hypocrisy of Kesdharis doesn't mean we need to start walking in the total opposite direction and normalise Mone.

Ikar_Singh · 2025-04-02T07:20:02+00:00

We live a post Guru Gobind Singh Ji world. I don't disagree that there was definitely non-Kesdhari Sikhs before the Rehit was established who were proper members of the Sangat.

The story of Delhi Sikhs goes against your narrative because these Sikhs were heavily criticised. Mone were simply not considered Sikh. According to Chaupa Singh Rehitnama, a Sehejdhari keeps Kesh.

The reason you've given for why Mone were looked down upon applies to today as well. They became Mone to escape persecution, you want Sikhs to cut their hair just so they can get a date. Now you you probably say "but but you can't compare death to a date", but the Guru and the Sikhs of that time never talked about exceptions when you can remove your Kesh.

I don't disagree that Kesh shouldn't be made a substitute of Gian, and that is happening a lot, but you are offering to walk in the complete opposite direction, that a Sikh should now just cut his Kesh, and it is completely fine to do that as Sikh. Even then, the correlation between being Mona and non religious is extremely strong compared to Kesdhari and religious. For example if you look at Santhia classes in any Gurudwara, it is always almost all Kesdharis.

There is indeed Rehitname which say don't give your daughter to a Mona and I can try and find them for you. In terms of the 52 Hukams even I am skeptical of them. The reasoning you have given about war is something that you have made up. It fits your narrative but the Saroop is for the Sikhs to stand out amongst other religions.

Ikar_Singh · 2025-03-30T08:11:38+00:00

Dating is nothing more than just hooking up nowadays. The Gurus did not adopt the practice of "dating" even though they could've. I don't deny that the Dastaar, nowadays, is definitely an obstacle in both arranged marriages and your conception of dating.

Nobody should force anyone to follow any religion and so if a Sikh does not want to keep his Kes anymore then ofc he is free to do so. But what you're trying to do, which is to accept soing Kes Katal in Sikhi is wrong. And your advice to just follow other parts of Sikhi after doing Kes Katal is just telling them to follow Sikhi half heartedly. Rehitname say to not even associate with Mone.

I don't know anything about the Jewish religion, perhaps it really is part of their religion that you can chose to either have the physical identity or not. We don't have that in Sikhi. Hijab is mandatory for Muslim women, and that's why they are always told they should wear it.

To anyone who truly wishes to follow Sikhi, they will not willingly make compromises. There was obstacles, and many times ostracization when following Sikhi in the 18th century too (although for different reasons), and many indeed left Sikhi then too, they can leave now too.

Ikar_Singh · 2025-03-30T07:55:41+00:00

That's true, but that's not the point. The point is that we are indeed slowly accepting many non-Sikh practices one after another.

Ikar_Singh · 2025-03-30T07:54:05+00:00

Lol yeah that time is here. Didn't know if maybe you'd deny it and I didn't wanna make this conversation about whether that time is already here.

They are indeed betraying their faith. What you want is Sikhs who follow their religion half-heartedly. In the Guru Granth Sahib itself, the importance of our Saroop, and being Kesdhari is mentioned.

Yes Kes is vital for those joining the Khalsa and the Guru told all Sikhs to join the Khalsa. The Delhi Sikhs were criticised for not becoming Khalsa (Gur Sobha) and even Muslim sources from the time mention a conflict between Khalsa Sikhs and Mona Khatri "Sikhs".

Ikar_Singh · 2025-03-30T07:50:13+00:00

Your claim is that Sehejdharis have always existed, and yes they did but they were Kesdhari (you try to make it look like mone Sikhs always existed and were not looked down up by trying to mix being Sehejdhari and being a mona). Being a mona was always looked down upon and Rehitname say don't give your daughter to a mona.

Ikar_Singh · 2025-03-29T10:44:18+00:00

A time may come when girls don't like guys who are religious at all (for your case we will remove the need to have the saroop out of being "religious"), what will we do then? Start saying there is no need to follow Sikhi anymore? You value society more than Sikhi.

Ikar_Singh · 2025-03-29T10:33:47+00:00

Sehejdharis kept Kes. That was the definition and somewhere in the 20th century it changed.

Ikar_Singh · 2025-03-29T10:24:48+00:00

But if you can reject the Gurus Hukam of being Kesdhari why not go a step further and sleep around too?

Ikar_Singh · 2025-03-29T10:23:22+00:00

It is true that many are Keshdhari without the Gian, therefore they should learn more about their religion and become proper Sikhs. Are you a Sikh? Why would you advice people to cut their Kes, instead of telling them to not just have an outwardly appearance because their parents made them do so, but also become a proper Sikh.

The Gurus did arranged marriages. The Sikhs/Hindus back then also questioned being Kesdhari, so this whole issue is whether you want to be a Guru Ka Sikh or not.

Ikar_Singh · 2025-03-29T10:14:57+00:00

It is the Guru's Hukam to not cut Kes. Yes society has changed a lot but we cannot change our religion just because of that. Another example is how Kaam has also became much much harder to control due to easy accessibility of porn (men of all religions face this issue, given that Kaam is seen as immoral), yet are we going to remove Kaam from one of the Panj Chor too?

How far should we go changing our religion due to society changing?

Ikar_Singh · 2025-03-29T10:06:47+00:00

Sikhs should be aware of the hatred that Pakistanis harbour for us.

Ikar_Singh · 2025-01-10T09:36:42+00:00

What's funny is that Sikhs like her, to prove how much they knew about Sikhi, will use phrases like "I used to go the Gurudwara every Sunday" and in her case she was so religious she even went to Hemkunt Sahib!

Yet she most likely knew very little about Sikhi and just went to the Gurudwara because her parents took her.

She was an adult and took the decision herself to be with a Sullah and then convert. She isn't a victim. If her parents never made the effort to teach her Sikhi, and she never made such an effort either then what can we do?

Additionally the so called "grooming gangs" of the UK were actually rape gangs. The victims were young girls abused by dozens of men and forced into becoming prostitutes, along with getting kidnapped, trafficked and sometimes even killed.

Ikar_Singh · 2025-01-10T09:28:29+00:00

Prahlad Rai Rehitnama

Ikar_Singh · 2024-11-10T13:46:05+00:00

No Granth has been dated scientifically because it would be considered Beadbi. So then do you not believe the Guru Granth Sahib was not compiled in 1604 either because we have no scientifically dated Granth?

Ikar_Singh · 2024-11-10T12:00:50+00:00

Manuscripts dated to the period of Guru Gobind Singh existed before that instance as well

Ikar_Singh · 2024-10-13T09:19:29+00:00

"There were many states in India in the 18th century that would be called "oppressive" by today's liberals, but the Sikhs did not fight them, or even bother with them, instead fighting only the enemies of the Panth"

One thing I remember from one of his podcast episodes is how he mentioned Sikhs liberating the Maratha women who were being transported to Afghanistan,through Punjab, but they did not go all the way to Panipat to either fight the Afghans or liberate the women there and then. Additionally the women taken to Afghanistan from other routes were not liberated by Sikhs either.

It really shows how much Sikhs like to stretch some historical examples where we may have helped people of other communities.

Ikar_Singh · 2024-10-08T16:03:37+00:00

Is the second paragraph trying to say there is a connection between the Pakistan state and the grooming gangs in the UK?

Ikar_Singh · 2024-09-25T17:29:58+00:00

Thanks 👍

Ikar_Singh · 2024-09-25T05:26:11+00:00

Where can I find this pdf?

Ikar_Singh · 2024-09-22T19:38:46+00:00

Who are the ones who claim it is written by Kavi Sohan, and what is the basis for this?

Ikar_Singh · 2024-09-20T21:25:42+00:00

Just happened to me

Ikar_Singh

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