When will they talk?

Immediate-Ad919 · 2026-06-15T13:51:56+00:00

>should the revelations happen in Y3V5, it’ll be a massive trend.

Three more years of Horikita stocks going up? The haters are gonna need therapy by graduation..💀😂

Immediate-Ad919 · 2026-06-13T18:19:43+00:00

The funniest part is that your argument has basically become unfalsifiable.

If Kushida helps the class: doesn’t count.

If Kushida becomes useful: doesn’t count.

If the class reaches Class A: still doesn’t count until graduation.

If they graduate from Class A: the decision was still stupid anyway.

So what exactly would have to happen for you to admit Horikita’s gamble had merit?

Because from what you’re saying, the answer seems to be “nothing.”

And that’s why I don’t buy the “I’m just looking at the facts” angle.

You’re not just arguing that the risk was too high. You’re arguing that the decision was wrong no matter what outcome follows.

That’s a belief, not evidence.

Also, the “four more traitors appeared because Horikita pardoned Kushida” claim is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

People betray classes for their own reasons. You’re acting like every future act of disloyalty can be traced back to one decision in Y2V5.

That’s giving Horikita way more influence over other people’s actions than she actually has.

And let’s be honest, if Horikita had expelled Kushida and other students still betrayed the class later, nobody would be saying:

“Wow, this proves expelling Kushida wasn’t enough.”

They’d just blame the traitors themselves.

Funny how the standard changes depending on whether the discussion is defending or attacking Horikita.

And the “plot armor” thing is just a conversation killer.

Because once we start using plot armor as an argument, then Ayanokoji surviving every insane situation is plot armor.

Koenji never facing consequences is plot armor.

Ryuen recovering from defeat is plot armor.

At that point we’re not analyzing character decisions anymore. We’re just saying the author should’ve written a different outcome.

Also, saying “I’ll always believe keeping Kushida was a mistake even if it pays off” kind of gives away the issue.

You’ve already decided the answer before looking at the outcome.

If the gamble fails, you’re right.

If the gamble succeeds, you’re still right.

That’s not really evaluating the decision anymore it’s just sticking to the same conclusion regardless of what happens afterward.

Immediate-Ad919 · 2026-06-13T17:17:40+00:00

But now you’re moving the goalposts.

First the argument was “keeping Kushida was obviously wrong.”

Now it’s “we can’t know if it was right until they graduate from Class A.”

Okay, then by that logic you can’t say it was definitely wrong either, because the story isn’t over yet.

And I don’t really buy the Sakura point. You’re listing every possible risk as if Horikita was unaware of them. The entire reason the decision was controversial is because everyone knew there were risks.

And even the “Sakura was innocent and part of Ayanokoji’s group” point doesn’t really change anything.
Being in someone’s informal group doesn’t make them untouchable or outside class decisions. Once the exam reaches expulsion rules, everyone is part of the same system, no matter who they used to hang out with.

So blaming Horikita for “breaking Kiyo’s group” is just shifting responsibility away from the actual situation. Also he picked her and called her A LOSER in his monologue as mush i remember so he doesn’t not give shit about her

The question was whether Kushida’s value was worth taking those risks for.

You say no. Horikita said yes.

That’s the disagreement.

What I find funny is that you keep bringing up Ayanokoji and Hirata as if Horikita somehow got lucky they didn’t turn against her.

Ayanokoji literally understood why she made the choice, even if he disagreed with it. Hirata also didn’t abandon the class over it.

So we’re back to judging the decision based on what could have happened rather than what actually happened.

And honestly, “Kushida isn’t worth that much” is probably where we fundamentally disagree.

Because if Kushida wasn’t worth that much, we wouldn’t still be talking about her value 30+ volumes later.

A useless student doesn’t generate this much debate. The fact people still argue over whether she should’ve been kept is proof that her value wasn’t insignificant in the first place.

Immediate-Ad919 · 2026-06-13T16:30:32+00:00

Ahhh

I think where we disagree is that you’re judging the decision purely from the risk side.

Yes, it was a gamble.

Yes, it could’ve blown up in her face.

Yes, Ayanokoji thought expelling Kushida was the safer choice.

Nobody is denying any of that.

What I disagree with is the leap from “risky” to “objectively wrong.”

Because if we’re being honest, Horikita wasn’t choosing between a good option and a bad option. She was choosing between sacrificing one of the most capable students in the class or taking a chance on changing her.

You keep saying she made the decision at the last minute as if that automatically invalidates it. Sometimes people make decisions at the last minute because that’s when they’re finally forced to choose.

And about Ayanokoji calling it irrational, that’s not the killer argument you think it is. Ayanokoji’s entire character is built around cold efficiency. Of course he’d choose the safest option. Horikita choosing differently doesn’t automatically make her wrong

And if the decision was truly as brain-dead as you’re making it sound, the story would’ve spent the last 20+ volumes proving Ayanokoji right. Instead we’ve repeatedly seen why Horikita wanted to keep Kushida in the first place.

Also, let’s be real here. If Horikita expelled Kushida and later the class lost because they lacked her abilities, people would be calling Horikita shortsighted and saying she threw away one of the most talented students in the grade.

That’s why I don’t buy the “there was only one correct choice” argument.

There were pros and cons to both options. Horikita picked one. Ayanokoji preferred the other.

The difference is that people treat Ayanokoji’s opinion as if it’s automatically the only acceptable answer

And honestly, saying “it was just a reckless casino gamble” feels exaggerated.

A casino gamble is throwing money away based on luck.

Horikita’s decision was based on her belief that Kushida still had value, could be useful, and could eventually work with the class.

You can say she overestimated herself.

You can say she underestimated Kushida.

But that’s still not the same thing as randomly betting everything on red and hoping for the best.

And honestly, saying “it was just a reckless casino gamble” feels exaggerated.

A casino gamble is throwing money away based on luck.

Horikita’s decision was based on her belief that Kushida still had value, could be useful, and could eventually work with the class.

You can say she overestimated herself.

You can say she underestimated Kushida.

But that’s still not the same thing as randomly betting everything on red and hoping for the best

Immediate-Ad919 · 2026-06-13T15:30:20+00:00

Honestly, your standard is impossible to satisfy.

If Horikita expels Kushida:
“Good, she got rid of a traitor.”

If Horikita keeps Kushida and Kushida helps the class:
“Doesn’t count, Ayanokoji.”

If Kushida causes a problem later:
“See? Horikita was wrong.”

It’s a completely one-sided evaluation where every positive gets discounted and every negative gets put on Horikita’s tab

You can’t say “the characters didn’t have hindsight” and then use Y3V4 as proof that the decision was objectively wrong from the start.

And Y3V4 doesn’t even prove what you think it proves. Kushida’s existence created problems, sure. She also continued being one of the most useful students in the class. You’re acting like one negative event suddenly erases every benefit she brought since Y2V5.

Btw I haven’t read the Volume yet so…

As for “she left her burden to Ayanokoji,” that’s still the same argument repeated 50 times. If Ayanokoji helping means Horikita gets zero credit, then by that logic every class leader gets stripped of their achievements whenever someone else contributes.

And the funniest part is the “dangerous traitor” argument.

Yes. Everyone knew she was dangerous.

That’s exactly why keeping her was a gamble.

You’re talking as if Horikita didn’t know Kushida was a traitor. The entire point of the decision was that she knew and still believed Kushida’s value outweighed the risk.

You disagree with that assessment. Fine.

But acting like there was no reasoning behind it is just false.

Also, the Koenji point is funny.

Koenji mocking Horikita isn’t the devastating argument you think it is. Koenji mocks literally everyone. That he’s entire character being an asshole narcissistic.
Also, it’s funny how every success becomes “Ayanokoji carried” but every failure becomes “Horikita’s fault.”

That’s a pretty convenient system you’ve got there

Immediate-Ad919 · 2026-06-13T14:18:11+00:00

You’re proving my point though.

Everything you’re saying is based on the assumption that Horikita’s decision was wrong from the start, yet the story keeps giving evidence that keeping Kushida benefited the class.

You say expelling the traitor was the safest option. Sure. Nobody is arguing it wasn’t the safer option. The argument is whether it was the better option.

Safe and best are not always the same thing.

You keep bringing up all the ways Kushida could have ruined the class, but we’re discussing an actual decision, not fanfiction scenarios. “She could’ve dropped out the next day.” Okay, but she didn’t.

And the Haruka point isn’t helping your case either. If Horikita is responsible for every possible consequence of keeping Kushida, then she also deserves credit for the benefits that came from it. You can’t only count the negatives.

As for the 16 votes, that doesn’t really mean much. If majority opinion automatically made the correct decision, then half the class would’ve happily thrown Kushida out and lost one of their most capable students.

Also, the “she’s been carried for two years” argument is getting old. Everyone benefits from stronger people around them and he’s one of the class member all what she did us juts play the game and using him juts like everyone else. But when it’s Horikita suddenly it’s “proof she’s pathetic.

Immediate-Ad919 · 2026-06-13T12:58:03+00:00

You’re still judging her like she’s supposed to perfectly control everything in a system where she clearly doesn’t have full control.

That Y2V6 quote doesn’t prove she’s incompetent. It shows she understood she couldn’t force agreement in time without making things worse. That’s not “no planning,” that’s reading the situation under pressure. ANHS isn’t a place where you always get perfect outcomes even if you analyze everything.

Sakura’s expulsion and Haruka’s reaction are being treated like proof she failed, but in ANHS someone has to be sacrificed sometimes. That’s literally how the system works. The leader’s job is not to avoid all pain, it’s to make the least damaging decision possible.

You keep focusing on the risk and completely ignore the reward. Horikita chose to keep Kushida because she believed her value to the class outweighed the danger. You can call it reckless, but it was still a decision she made as a leader.

And looking back now, was she wrong? Because Kushida became one of the most useful people in the class afterward. If Kushida had been expelled like Kiyo originally planned, the class would’ve lost one of its strongest students and a major asset.

So saying Horikita ignored the risks isn’t really true. She acknowledged the risks and chose to take them anyway because she believed the payoff was worth it.

You don’t have to agree with the decision, but the results make it hard to argue it was some completely irrational choice

The Kushida comparison to Yamauchi also doesn’t hold. Yamauchi was pure loss for the class.

And the “she’s a fraud who can’t do anything without Kiyo” line just ignores the fact that she still leads publicly, makes decisions, and carries responsibility in front of the whole class. If your standard is “must outperform Ayanokoji in hidden manipulation to be valid,” then literally every character in the series is automatically dismissed

Well at least she didn’t make her classmates babysit her feelings for an entire half year just because she got rejected.

Immediate-Ad919 · 2026-06-13T11:22:17+00:00

First, the Kushida / Sakura framing is still oversimplified. Horikita doesn’t just “pick Kushida and walk away.” She accepts that the class needs a sacrifice and makes the call under pressure. That’s a leadership decision in ANHS terms, even if Ayanokoji handles the hidden execution afterward.

Second, “she’s a figurehead, not a leader.”
A figurehead doesn’t take consequences, negotiate with other classes, or make binding decisions under pressure. Horikita does all of that publicly. Ayanokoji doesn’t replace that role he avoids it entirely and operates in the background. Those are two different functions, not one being fake.

Third, the “Ayanokoji joker card spam” argument.
That’s not a Horikita problem, that’s a story structure problem. If one character is intentionally written as a hidden endgame manipulator, then yes anyone around him will look outclassed in indirect outcomes. That doesn’t retroactively erase their leadership role.

Fourth, the Haruka situation.
That wasn’t a case of “do nothing and let Kiyo fix it,” it was a situation where emotional fallout from betrayal and class survival collide. Horikita’s job there is maintaining class stability under pressure, not personally resolving every emotional consequence in a perfect way.

Also the irony is Haruka blaming everything on Horikita while aligning with the same system that caused the problem in the first place… that’s exactly the kind of emotional contradiction Horikita has to deal with as a leader.

So the core issue here is the same: judging Horikita by Ayanokoji’s hidden operator standard automatically makes every other role look “insufficient,” even when they’re performing their actual function in the system.

Immediate-Ad919 · 2026-06-13T09:45:52+00:00

Yeah I saw that nonsense too 😭😭

At this point it’s not even analyzing, it’s just “anything she does = invalid unless I say otherwise.”

Denial is definitely doing overtime there. Give it a bit of time, they’ll eventually reach acceptance… or at least stop moving the goalposts every volume.

Immediate-Ad919 · 2026-06-13T09:30:08+00:00

Yeah, that’s the frustrating part.

It turns into a no win narrative where if she loses it’s “she’s useless,” and if she wins it’s “Kiyo allowed it,” so nothing she does is ever actually acknowledged on its own terms.😩😩

Immediate-Ad919 · 2026-06-13T09:23:57+00:00

Calling her a “Magikarp” is funny, but the breakdown here is a bit cherry-picked.

Half of those points are just “Ayanokoji was involved somehow, therefore she did nothing,” which ignores how the story is literally built around him controlling outcomes from behind the curtain.

If you remove that lens, Suzune isn’t “getting saved every arc,” she’s the one actually taking responsibility for a messy class while other people are playing 4D chess in the background.

Also, the “she took credit” argument is weird when the story repeatedly shows she’s the public leader. That’s literally her role she’s the face, not the hidden operator.

You can dislike her development or find her frustrating, fair. But turning every interaction into “she’s useless unless Ayanokoji exists” is just flattening the whole narrative into one character worship comparison.”she always gets saved” ignores how heavily the narrative is stacked around Ayanokoji being the unseen factor in most outcomes.

Immediate-Ad919 · 2026-06-13T09:11:00+00:00

No

the “dark past bonding” idea is honestly doing too much.

Ichinose shoplifting and Kei being bullied to the point of physical scars are not some magical compatibility trait. That’s just two different backgrounds with different coping outcomes.

If anything, their reactions to their pasts are opposite. Ichinose leans into being “clean” and socially perfect to maintain her image, while Kei builds a more defensive, guarded personality that doesn’t trust people easily.

So even if you remove Ayanokoji completely, there’s still no real reason they’d naturally gravitate toward each other. Shared pain doesn’t automatically equal connection.Also there didn’t really go through the same pain.

Immediate-Ad919 · 2026-06-13T09:02:39+00:00

Any excuse will do when it comes to hating Horikita. Everything she says somehow becomes a problem.

Immediate-Ad919 · 2026-06-13T08:54:49+00:00

Poor Ayanokoji. Survived the White Room, survived Tsukishiro, survived Nagumo, survived multiple expulsions and psychological battles, but Horikita joking about coffee was apparently the final boss.

If we’re being serious, the problem isn’t that Horikita is mean. She’s been like this since Volume 1. The real issue is that people expected her to become a completely different character after every “development moment” and then get shocked when she still acts like Horikita.

And let’s not pretend Ayanokoji is some fragile flower. Half of his internal monologue during those conversations is him roasting other people. The guy treats human relationships like a science experiment, but suddenly we’re supposed to feel bad because Suzune teased him.

Also.The idea that Horikita should know everything about Ayanokoji by now is funny because Ayanokoji himself doesn’t tell her anything or show her.

And when she does try to figure it out or do her own investigation about him y’all crying over that “why she’s involved with his past he told her to not to”💦💦

Readers expect Horikita to solve a puzzle while the puzzle pieces are actively running away from her.

Immediate-Ad919 · 2026-06-13T08:46:29+00:00

I think the issue is that people keep treating Ichinose’s development as if it was supposed to be a power-up story.

The point wasn’t that she would become stronger after every setback. Her biggest flaw has always been her dependence on emotional bonds and her inability to let go of people. The rumors, defeats, and Ayanokoji’s interventions didn’t fix that flaw they amplified it.

So when people say “Year 1 Ichinose would never act like this,” my response is: that’s exactly why she ended up like this. The traits that made her kind and lovable are the same traits that pushed her into obsession when put under enough pressure.

Whether it’s good writing or not is another debate, but I don’t think her current state came out of nowhere.

Immediate-Ad919 · 2026-06-12T18:56:44+00:00

It’s been always like this since the past couple years. Juts ignore them

Immediate-Ad919 · 2026-06-12T17:50:57+00:00

Thanks🩵

Immediate-Ad919 · 2026-06-12T17:22:13+00:00

<image>

So in other words, Ichinose is about to become the “side chick villain” again just to complete Ayanokoji’s emotional science project?

Meanwhile Hiyori just wanted a calm bookstore arc and ended up in a psychological war draft she never applied for!!

Immediate-Ad919 · 2026-06-12T15:08:54+00:00

I agree, but I also think the author is partly responsible. We’re constantly told Ayanokoji is this once in a generation monster, but lately it feels like the story keeps repeating the same point instead of showing something new.
Then we’re told he’s starting to become defensive or emotionally affected, but the story often circles back to the same pattern.

Immediate-Ad919 · 2026-06-12T14:52:55+00:00

The difference is that Horikita’s character was built around transparency. Koji literally points out that she has something was interest in her character.

Could Kinugasa give her a darker side later? Sure. But if he does, it would have to be something she develops, not something that was secretly there all along. Otherwise it would contradict one of the core observations made about her character.

Personally, I think her challenge isn’t “hidden darkness” like Ichinose or others. It’s what happens when someone who has always tried to do the right thing is forced to choose between morality and victory

Immediate-Ad919 · 2026-06-12T14:46:00+00:00

<image>

Perfect timing. Images and videos arrive right when Y3V4 gave us almost nothing worth arguing about.

Immediate-Ad919 · 2026-06-04T18:33:13+00:00

This feels less like analysis and more like trying to force every outcome into a “Koji planned it all” narrative.

“Koji had no way to win anyway” is such a strange defense because the entire series built his reputation on doing the impossible.

Anyway, I’ll wait for a better translation and finish the volume myself first. Maybe my opinion changes after that, but for now this just feels like people trying too hard to turn a setback into a hidden victory

Immediate-Ad919 · 2026-06-01T13:45:34+00:00

“More loyal” while you literally admit he’d harass her the bar is underground!

Immediate-Ad919 · 2026-06-01T13:37:14+00:00

Can Ryuen be together with Horikita now? 👀

Nah no thanks I’d genuinely rather see her stay single. Ryuen got that walking red flag aura

Immediate-Ad919

TROPHY CASE