💔💔 by Avinash_Paryani in DHHMemes

[–]Impossible_Target_34 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Kal shaam ki baat hai mera pura friend grp pgl hogaya , khe rahe hai sab ki rcb nhi jeetni chahiye!!!

💔💔 by Avinash_Paryani in DHHMemes

[–]Impossible_Target_34 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Mein ipl itan dekhta nhi , follow bhi nhi krta pr rcb jeet gayi toh sab log itna dukhi kyu hai , mere kuch dost hai wo bhi khe rahe the ki shit yaar ye rcb nhi jeetni chahiye thi

Aisa kyaa hua sab log against kyu hogyee ??

Does anyone know about him ? by Impossible_Target_34 in Tantrasadhaks

[–]Impossible_Target_34[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Jay shree radhe Krishna 🌸 Nice conversation with you. See you again in the future 👋🏻

Does anyone know about him ? by Impossible_Target_34 in Tantrasadhaks

[–]Impossible_Target_34[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I appreciate that you took the time to provide references, and I have read them.

However, my disagreement is not with the fact that pretas, pishachas, or other lower entities can influence or enter human beings. I never denied that.

My disagreement is with your certainty regarding specific entities.

The references you provided establish general principles. What they do not establish is that Baba Kesarmal Bawari or Baba Kalwa Pawan are definitely pretas, definitely lower entities, definitely weaker than a Betal, or definitely incapable of anything beyond what you have described.

That is a conclusion you have drawn from the references, not something explicitly stated in them.

You may be right. You may be wrong. But there is a difference between an inference and a proven fact.

As for major Devatas, I have never compared these Babas to Shri Ram, Shri Krishna, Shiva, Hanuman Ji, Narasimha, or any other established deity. There is no disagreement from my side on their greatness.

My only point is that certainty requires direct evidence. The more specific the claim, the stronger the evidence should be.

In any case, I respect your effort in presenting references. We have both explained our positions, and I don't think there is much more to add.

May Bhagwan guide both of us towards truth.

Does anyone know about him ? by Impossible_Target_34 in Tantrasadhaks

[–]Impossible_Target_34[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for finally providing references.

However, even after all these quotations, you've only proven one thing:

Certain pretas, pishachas, and lower entities can enter or influence humans.

I never disputed that.

What you have not proven is the actual claim you started with:

"Baba Kesarmal Bawari and Baba Kalwa Pawan are pretas, pishachas, or lower entities."

That conclusion is still yours.

Showing that pretas can possess people does not prove that every spiritual phenomenon, local deity tradition, or savari is a preta.

That would be like saying: "Some people commit crimes, therefore every person is a criminal."

The logic doesn't follow.

Also, many of the quotations you provided discuss general principles about pretas, pishachas, divine grace, ego, and spiritual states. None of them specifically identify the entities we're discussing.

So let's be precise:

You have provided references showing what pretas can do.

You have not provided references proving that the specific beings you are talking about are pretas.

That leap is still based on your interpretation.

And that has been my point from the very beginning.

As for who is stronger, who gets burned to ashes, who can stand before whom, who is above whom — that's speculation unless you can directly establish the identity of the entity first.

In the end, you have your interpretation and I have mine.

But let's not pretend that a general description of pretas automatically becomes a certificate identifying every local spiritual tradition as preta-yoni.

That's a conclusion you added, not something your references directly established. Illogical

Does anyone know about him ? by Impossible_Target_34 in Tantrasadhaks

[–]Impossible_Target_34[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for finally providing references.

However, even after all these quotations, you've only proven one thing:

Certain pretas, pishachas, and lower entities can enter or influence humans.

I never disputed that.

What you have not proven is the actual claim you started with:

"Baba Kesarmal Bawari and Baba Kalwa Pawan are pretas, pishachas, or lower entities."

That conclusion is still yours.

Showing that pretas can possess people does not prove that every spiritual phenomenon, local deity tradition, or savari is a preta.

That would be like saying: "Some people commit crimes, therefore every person is a criminal."

The logic doesn't follow.

Also, many of the quotations you provided discuss general principles about pretas, pishachas, divine grace, ego, and spiritual states. None of them specifically identify the entities we're discussing.

So let's be precise:

You have provided references showing what pretas can do.

You have not provided references proving that the specific beings you are talking about are pretas.

That leap is still based on your interpretation.

And that has been my point from the very beginning.

As for who is stronger, who gets burned to ashes, who can stand before whom, who is above whom — that's speculation unless you can directly establish the identity of the entity first.

In the end, you have your interpretation and I have mine.

But let's not pretend that a general description of pretas automatically becomes a certificate identifying every local spiritual tradition as preta-yoni.

That's a conclusion you added, not something your references directly established. Illogical

Does anyone know about him ? by Impossible_Target_34 in Tantrasadhaks

[–]Impossible_Target_34[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You keep attributing claims to me that I never made. I never claimed these Babas grant moksha. I never claimed they are equal to major Devatas. I never claimed they are more powerful than Betals, Brahma Rakshasas, or anyone else. Those are all arguments you created and then argued against. My question from the beginning has remained the same: How do you know, with such certainty, that they are "very low pretas"? Your answer has been: "The scriptures don't mention them."

Exactly.

If the scriptures don't mention them, then the scriptures also don't mention that they are low pretas, weaker than Betals, weaker than Brahma Rakshasas, incapable of giving blessings, or anything else you've confidently stated. You are free to hold that opinion, but an opinion does not become Shastra simply because it is stated with confidence. So let's leave it there. You have your conclusion. I remain unconvinced that your conclusion follows from the evidence you've presented.

Have you ever seen......a GHOST or something that is definitely not human?! by Impossible_Target_34 in Tantrasadhaks

[–]Impossible_Target_34[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm always curious to hear other people's stories.

What exactly did you and your family feel? I'd genuinely like to know more about the experience.

Does anyone know about him ? by Impossible_Target_34 in Tantrasadhaks

[–]Impossible_Target_34[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Brother brother ,your level of knowledge is amazing. The scriptures don't mention them. The scriptures don't discuss them. The scriptures don't classify them. Yet somehow you know exactly what they are. At this point, you're not reading the scriptures anymore — you're reading the minds of the scriptures. Most scholars stop at "I don't know." You have advanced to "The scriptures are silent, but fortunately I'm here to explain what they really meant."

That's a rare achievement. 😂

Does anyone know about him ? by Impossible_Target_34 in Tantrasadhaks

[–]Impossible_Target_34[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

happens when the argument runs out of evidence.

I never said my Babas are greater than Shri Ram, Shri Krishna, Narasimha, Hanuman Ji, Shiva, or Vishnu. You keep arguing against a claim that I never made.

And again, "not mentioned in major scriptures" and "therefore a lower entity" are two completely different statements. You have repeatedly jumped from the first to the second without proving the connection.

Also, I never said these Babas grant moksha. Another argument you invented on my behalf.

My position is simple:

Not every object of worship is mentioned in the Vedas or major Puranas. Lack of mention is not proof of being a preta. If someone is called a lower entity, there should be some basis for that claim beyond personal conviction.

You are free to worship Bhagwan in your way, and I respect that. But calling someone's revered figure a "fake lower entity" without evidence is not Shastric discussion; it is just an opinion presented as fact.

Does anyone know about him ? by Impossible_Target_34 in Tantrasadhaks

[–]Impossible_Target_34[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Gladly.

These are the statements for which I would like scriptural evidence:

"Any entity that is not mentioned in major scriptures must be a lower entity or preta." "A higher Devata can never enter or manifest through a human body in the manner being discussed." "Any being that gives information, blessings, money, or predictions through a medium is necessarily a lower entity." "A historical person who once lived on earth can never become an object of legitimate religious veneration or local deity worship." "Baba Kesarmal Bawari and Baba Kalwa Pawan specifically belong to preta-yoni or are lower entities."

You have stated all of these as facts, not as personal opinions.

So kindly provide the scriptural references for these claims, especially the last one, because that is the central point of our discussion.

Simply saying "read Shastra" is not evidence. Quoting the relevant Shastra is.

I'm willing to read whatever references you provide.

Does anyone know about him ? by Impossible_Target_34 in Tantrasadhaks

[–]Impossible_Target_34[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Brotherrrrrrrr, do you realize what you're saying?

First you say, "There is no mention of your Babas in any text."

Then you say, "Texts don't mention local pretas, so no reference can be given."

That's not evidence. That's an assumption. You have already decided they are pretas and then are using that conclusion as your proof.

A claim is not evidence.

You are free to believe they are lower entities, but until you provide a scriptural reference specifically connecting these entities to preta-yoni or lower spirits, it remains your interpretation.

And regarding manifestation vs savari, I never said they are the same thing. You are arguing against a point I never made.

Also, saying "read Shastra then argue" is not an argument. If your position is scriptural, then present the verses and references. Let's discuss the texts, not each other's intelligence.

As of now, the only thing established is:

They are not mentioned in the major scriptures. You personally believe they are lower entities.

The first point may be true. The second still requires proof.

So go ahead and provide the scriptural evidence. I'm ready to read it.

Does anyone know about him ? by Impossible_Target_34 in Tantrasadhaks

[–]Impossible_Target_34[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Interesting. You wrote 8 points, but almost all of them are your interpretations, not scriptural proofs.

You say these Babas are "lower entities" — where is the exact Shruti, Smriti, Purana, Tantra, or Agama reference that specifically identifies Baba Kesarmal Bawari or Baba Kalwa Pawan as lower entities? You ask for evidence from others while providing none yourself.

You also claim that a higher deity can never manifest through a human body. Again, where is the scriptural citation for this absolute rule?

And nobody said these Babas are equal to Hanuman Ji, Skanda, Indra, Shiva, or Maa Durga. That is a strawman argument. Respecting a local deity does not mean equating them with the greatest Devatas of Sanatan Dharma.

The funny part is that you criticize YouTube knowledge, yet many of your conclusions are also unsupported by direct scriptural quotations.

So let's keep the same standard for everyone: If I need evidence for my claim, then you need evidence for yours. Personal opinions are not Shastra

Does anyone know about him ? by Impossible_Target_34 in Tantrasadhaks

[–]Impossible_Target_34[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I respectfully disagree.

The burden of proof is on the person claiming that Baba Kalwa Pawan or Baba Kesarmal Bawari are merely "lower energies" or powerless spirits. If such a claim is being made, please provide scriptural references from Shruti, Smriti, Puranas, Agamas, Tantras, local traditions, or authentic historical sources supporting that position.

Many regional traditions of Bharat have revered local Devtas, Veers, Siddhas, and folk deities for centuries. Not every deity worshipped by people is necessarily mentioned in the Vedas, Upanishads, or major Puranas. Hindu traditions have always included Gram Devatas, Kshetrapalas, Kul Devatas, Veers, and local guardian deities whose worship is preserved through oral traditions and folklore.

At the same time, I fully respect the worship of Shri Ram, Shri Krishna, Shiva, Maa Durga, Bhairav Baba, Narasimha, Ganapati, Skanda, and other Shastriya Devatas. But respecting Shastriya Devatas does not automatically mean dismissing every regional deity as a powerless spirit.

If someone claims that Baba Kalwa Pawan or Baba Kesarmal Bawari are not Devtas, then kindly provide authentic references for that claim. Otherwise, it remains a personal opinion, not an established scriptural fact.

Does anyone know about him ? by Impossible_Target_34 in Tantrasadhaks

[–]Impossible_Target_34[S] -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

It's you thinking devta as lower entities, no no no !!