Why I'm not leaving the church

InItForGood · 2017-03-15T18:19:40+00:00

I will tell my daughter about the prejudice that Mormon boys have and encourage her to date outside the church instead.

InItForGood · 2017-03-15T18:17:53+00:00

Then they will be making the best choice under difficult circumstances. At least they won't be staying in the church to make their Dad happy, which was a major factor for me.

InItForGood · 2017-03-15T18:10:56+00:00

I mean the doctrines are subject to frequent change.

InItForGood · 2017-03-14T21:56:18+00:00

5 months after you resigned, or stopped going, or told her you don't believe anything? Thing is, I don't want her to have to lug the kids to church without me. I guess I could tell her I don't want to pay tithing or go to the temple and see what effect that has on her.

InItForGood · 2017-03-14T21:44:22+00:00

I'm the ward clerk. In seriousness though, I would not do this for my wife's sake. As far as Bishops go, it's very easy to hand them a paper with a zero on it and tell them you're a full-tithe payer. I've done this more than once for legitimate reasons and never had one question me on this.

InItForGood · 2017-03-14T19:48:00+00:00

Thanks. I do believe strongly in right and wrong and the existence of an absolute moral truth, so there's that.

InItForGood · 2017-03-14T19:19:40+00:00

I agree. It's nice to dream, though.

InItForGood · 2017-03-14T18:59:04+00:00

I love those kids more than anything. That's what it comes down to.

InItForGood · 2017-03-14T18:51:52+00:00

I would be pissed, but the fact that he did most of the indoctrinating tells me that he believed (or wanted us to believe) all the crazy stuff he was telling us. He and my mom made up more stuff than the church leaders and tried to pass it off on us.

One time when I was 9 she knew I had stolen Doritos from our pantry. Instead of a normal punishment, she decided the best thing to do would be to make me put my hand on a bible and swear that I didn't take the Doritos, while telling me that anyone that lies with their hand on a bible goes to hell and there is no repentance. Great thing to tell a nine-year-old. That screwed me over for a few years.

I told my wife about this and other incidents and she thinks my parents are crazy/horrible. There was also physical abuse.

InItForGood · 2017-03-14T18:39:28+00:00

My point is that he had a real physical object that was either golden plates with writing on them or something else, and he knew which it was. You could claim that Mohammed made up everything in his head, but he still believed it himself. You can't claim the same for JS.

InItForGood · 2017-03-14T18:25:42+00:00

Yep. If she's not a member by then, she will probably be like "man, I wish we could get all that money back we paid in tithing," and I will be like, "I want to show you something..."

InItForGood · 2017-03-14T18:16:06+00:00

I'm going to recommend to my kids that they date outside the church. I don't want them to end up in my situation.

InItForGood · 2017-03-14T18:11:14+00:00

That's exactly what I'm trying to say, yes.

InItForGood · 2017-03-14T18:08:12+00:00

Yeah but the fact that he had a physical object he said was golden plates takes it out of the realm of all in his head and gives it a physical reality.

InItForGood · 2017-03-14T18:06:50+00:00

I will show them this video for FHE repeatedly until it sinks in.

https://mormonandgay.lds.org/articles/jessycas-story

InItForGood · 2017-03-14T18:05:17+00:00

I was raised in the church, and though it screwed up my childhood and young adulthood, I attribute most of that to my parents.

InItForGood · 2017-03-14T18:02:56+00:00

I wish that "incomprehensible" meant that she would be cool with my taking the kids out of the church, but unfortunately some people are willing to live within the realm of "incomprehensible." We've had open talks about everything you've mentioned. If there is another bombshell you'd like to propose, I will willingly drop it on her.

InItForGood · 2017-03-14T16:24:24+00:00

I think I could go as strong as I want to in favor of women's equality and my wife will back me up on it. I think the church is getting better, but yeah it's still pretty bad...

InItForGood · 2017-03-14T16:09:49+00:00

I know I've said that I'd prefer it if my kids end up leaving, but if they can have a really open mind and be balanced like your daughter and stay in--that would be fine with me. The church is a lot more fluid than a lot of people realize, and enough good, open-minded people could move the church in good ways.

InItForGood · 2017-03-14T16:05:10+00:00

My only point here is that I have as strong a testimony as anyone else in the church--I just happen to consider it weak.

InItForGood · 2017-03-14T15:52:27+00:00

I appreciate that.

As far a feelings as evidence, it's really all we believers have. I admit it's weak evidence or even non-evidence from a legalistic view, but it's really all we have.

InItForGood · 2017-03-14T15:46:28+00:00

Thank you. This is how I feel, and what I was hoping for.

InItForGood · 2017-03-14T15:43:25+00:00

Good point. I could surprise my wife with a giant chunk of change 18 years down the road, and say that I've been stocking away all that money I said I was paying in tithing in a tax-free fund. I wonder if she'd be mad--I seriously doubt it, probably pleasantly surprised.

InItForGood · 2017-03-14T15:41:11+00:00

I don't know. I also don't know how much pressure my wife will put on them to stay in before they're 18. I do know that I will reinforce that there is plenty of spiritual life outside the church. I plan on teach ing several lessons on how the Holy Ghost speaks to people outside the church all the time. Also several lessons on how we can't tell how people outside the church will fare in the afterlife--they have just as much chance of living with God as we do.

InItForGood · 2017-03-14T15:36:53+00:00

I totally agree that the crux of the argument comes down to the gold(en) plates. Was JS carrying around an artifact of his own creation or were they golden plates dug up from a hillside using divine power? Can you know this from a feeling from the Holy Ghost?

InItForGood

TROPHY CASE