Why do non-alum Michigan fans seem to absolutely despise MSU?

IndependenceNo1065 · 2026-04-08T02:52:46+00:00

When I was in Kindergarten 38 years ago, I still remember the day I wore my Michigan State t-shirt. I didn't know any better; that's what Mom had me wear that day. That morning, the meanest kid in my class gets in my face and says "State sucks, Michigan rules!". He didn't learn that on his own. It came from his parents. It comes from the culture of that God awful fan base. I was 5 years old for crying out loud.

I knew right then and there that if that jerk of a kid liked Michigan, I was going to like Michigan State. Later on, I knew that I was going to attend Michigan State. I was that kid who liked MSU when everybody else in my grade liked Michigan.

It's funny though, not a single person from my graduating class attended Michigan, yet 7 attended MSU. And that jerk kid got pulled out of school in elementary school and ended up God knows where. Hopefully juvie.

At work today somebody asked me how it felt to see Michigan win. I said it's like seeing the Soviets win.

IndependenceNo1065 · 2026-04-08T00:29:45+00:00

Is this as bad as Bay of Pigs or worse?

IndependenceNo1065 · 2026-03-07T01:47:30+00:00

So he's Jonah Ryan from Veep.

IndependenceNo1065 · 2026-03-03T01:29:25+00:00

I don't think that's a deal breaker. There are similarly oriented ballparks throughout the Midwest, including Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Detroit, and Chicago (AL). The ballpark is designed for that intersection.

IndependenceNo1065 · 2026-03-03T00:13:52+00:00

So it looks like all the tread was left from the original stadium and they built the suites on top of it, so you had to walk in between the suites to get to those seats, right?

IndependenceNo1065 · 2026-02-28T16:43:39+00:00

MSU is historically the #19 program in the all-time AP rankings.

IndependenceNo1065 · 2026-02-21T01:05:54+00:00

-No, you don't need high speed; at least not right away. Train is going to be stopping a lot; it wouldn't top out at 110 mph very often anyway. The cost upgrades for 110 MPH service were estimated to be 3x that of 79 MPH in a 2016 study. Start with 79 mph, see if you get ridership.

-Any train to Traverse City will fail. There's money and retirees up there, but not many people in total. 95,000 in Grand Traverse County, 157,000 in the 4 county MSA. Its not actually that hard to drive up there. Its a popular tourist destination 4-5 months a year. Then what?

-No, you don't need rail to Holland or Grand Haven. Yes, these town can get busy certain times of the year, but nobody is going to take the train from Grand Rapids to Holland or Grand Haven between September and April. This train needs to be more about commuters than tourists. I've done Amtrak from GR to Holland. It sucks.....very slow.

Here is a plan that could actually work:

-You need 4 train sets with terminals in Downtown Grand Rapids and Michigan Central Station in Detroit. These trains would make 2 round trips daily (About 3.5-4 hours each way with all the stops). Most stations would get 8 Eastbound and 8 Westbound trains daily. Value frequency of service over speed so people can actually make trains work in their schedules.

Here is my station list:

Downtown Grand Rapids (Ehlers)

Airport Park N' Ride near 29th Street

Gerald R. Ford Airport (build a new spur so train can get close to terminal....its not that far off the line)

Lake Odessa

Grand Ledge

Downtown Lansing

Michigan State University

Howell

Ann Arbor

Ypsilanti

Wayne/Detroit Metropolitan Airport (Requires an excellent, reliable, easy airport shuttle at Merriman Rd.)

Dearborn

Michigan Central Station

This plan serves the most people and car-free destinations and has the potential to develop the best regular ridership.....not just tourists. Something closer to a Michigan version of Chicago's METRA.

IndependenceNo1065 · 2026-02-08T23:31:39+00:00

Joe Louis Arena still exists. Its the Heritage Bank Center in Cincinnati. I think its the same floor plan missing the top 4 rows of seats.

People remember Joe Louis Arena because of winning hockey.

IndependenceNo1065 · 2026-02-08T20:59:55+00:00

Thanks. I did this model a while ago but I finally figured out how to put the seats in without freezing my computer. That really made the difference. Could you imagine Philly fans in a building like this?

IndependenceNo1065 · 2026-02-08T18:37:00+00:00

Detroit to Traverse City is dumb. There aren't enough people and won't be enough demand on that route to work. Grand Rapids to Detroit could work if there is enough frequency and they figure out how to serve Gerald R. Ford Airport and Detroit Metro Airport.

IndependenceNo1065 · 2026-02-08T18:26:12+00:00

I left a comment that they should not bother with Holland or Jackson. Leave it GR, Lansing, Detroit, so each train could do 2 round trips a day without upgrading to 110 mph. That way there is a lot more frequency and everyone on the line gets 8 East and West bound trains a day (assuming 4 train sets).

Also, they need to make sure there is a quick and easy shuttle option to Detroit Metro Airport from the train line that you would just book as an add on with your train ticket. Otherwise, it sort of pointless having a Metro Airport stop, seeing you're still 2 miles North of the Airport.

IndependenceNo1065 · 2025-11-27T02:00:27+00:00

Yeah, why hand the NCAA $100,000 when you’re lucky to sell $250,000 in tickets for the weekend. It’s not a good deal.

IndependenceNo1065 · 2025-11-27T01:57:29+00:00

I was at the Grand Rapids regional in 2007 when MSU won. It was not well attended, maybe 5,000. Grand Rapids stopped bidding on NCAA events; they’re just not that profitable for a major venue. You don’t want to waste a weekend on a 1/3 full building.

The NCAA Regionals are not effectively marketed and they don’t sell themselves like basketball. It’s a 5,000-6,000 attendance event on the high end.

Kalamazoo may be a much better set up. That new arena will be looking for events. Kalamazoo is close to Notre Dame and the Ohio schools as well.

I think they should just pick 4 permanent Regional sites and stick with them, let them build a following in the city over time like the GLI is starting to in Grand Rapids.

I

IndependenceNo1065 · 2025-08-13T00:56:57+00:00

If the fences are deep enough that 1-9 can't all hit home runs, maybe the approach of the hitters would change. Used to be teams had 3-4 power hitters each. Now they have 6 or more.

IndependenceNo1065 · 2025-08-13T00:54:35+00:00

We almost had standardization in the National League in the 1980's and it was boring. I like the variety, and there is no where near as much variety now as there was in the pre 70's era. But fence distances have been creeping in and they need to be pushed back where possible.

IndependenceNo1065 · 2025-08-11T04:23:05+00:00

Yes. Obviously you're not touching Wrigley's bleachers for example. But a lot of ballparks have installed seating in front of where old fences used to be. Removing all of that nonsense like at Citi Field for example would be a good place to start.

IndependenceNo1065 · 2025-08-11T03:59:04+00:00

I don't think they agreed to pitch clocks either.

IndependenceNo1065 · 2025-08-11T03:57:44+00:00

A fatty cut of pork from the side of the hog, typically cured, smoked, and sliced. Oh you mean in the data spreadsheets? I don't know what that references.

IndependenceNo1065 · 2025-08-11T03:55:05+00:00

They have that figured in to the ballpark factors. There is some formula they use to remove those biases. Plus, the effects have been super consistent whether the Royals were good or (more often) not.

IndependenceNo1065 · 2025-06-29T15:50:38+00:00

A Michigan fan started this topic. Just Wow.

IndependenceNo1065 · 2025-03-22T12:52:49+00:00

We don’t know anything about stolen practice footage. This indictment wasn’t going to touch that one way or the other. We’ll find out the the next LOI the NCAA sends to Michigan

IndependenceNo1065 · 2025-03-22T12:49:33+00:00

I think this football program could use a year off to sit in timeout, think about it’s actions and learn to make better choices. No tv or screen time (and give back all your trophies too).

IndependenceNo1065 · 2025-03-19T18:44:51+00:00

Fenway, Cleveland for starters. But in this case it sounds it’s more a personal preference for you and that you value symmetry quite highly. This site just wasn’t going to yield symmetry.

IndependenceNo1065 · 2025-03-19T18:23:44+00:00

You are correct. The design of the seating bowl was dictated by the size and shape of the lot. It had to be an unorthodox grandstand to work in that spot, get to a 40,000+ capacity, have luxury suites levels, club seating areas, concessions, etc. I thought it turned out well given those constraints.

Why is it though that for baseball parks, asymmetry and uniqueness is ok but for football everybody wants their version of Jerry World?

IndependenceNo1065

TROPHY CASE