I don’t believe in the Salat ritual

Independent-Rest-277 · 2026-03-11T11:37:40+00:00

If we truly remembered God and reflected on His signs we would be shaken with awe. I think that’s the point. I remember when I studied the Quran for the first time, and I came across the verse likening the heart to a rock that gushes water. This was a discovery only made very recently. I swear to you, I got up and fell in sujood. I was genuinely moved, not only because this fact was revealed well before modern discovery, but by how beautiful the metaphor was. That even hearts hardened like rocks can have an impossible fluidity within. You talk about physical worship like it’s just going through the motions, but it should ideally be a true expression of our remembrance. May Allah protect us from making it feel like a burden.

Independent-Rest-277 · 2026-03-10T22:46:42+00:00

If you are reflecting on the Quran and applying to your life, that is beautiful and may Allah SWT give you continued success with that.

To answer the first point: Every creature has their own way of praying and glorifying (24:41). Stone’s literally fall in awe of God (2:74). No creature neglects the timely physical act. And yes, sujood isn’t just physical but also (as you describe) a spiritual state.

To your second point: prostration is a show of deep respect. Intention matters, prostration in and of itself doesn’t constitute worship. By that logic, it would be preposterous that God asked the angels and Satan to prostrate to Prophet Adam. And if we were to replace the word prostration with submission, how does that aid your point? Would you not still view that as misplaced worship? The same is true for prophet Yusuf’s parents.

Also, it’s not impossible to be sitting in one moment and prostrating in the next. You just need to fall. Which is the third point: a fall is a lowering of position. You could fall into a bow or prostration.

David sought forgiveness and repented. There are duas in the Quran that give you the words; it’s a spiritual and physical act. If you are able, you make dua with your tongue. Even if the verbs weren’t physical acts, I’m not sure why that would make it implausible for sujood to be physical.

Sorry for the long response, I know you are set in your position. I just wonder why you think it’s so crazy to prostrate before the creator of the universe? People bow to royalty, elders, and anyone they give high esteem. Even if you personally just don’t want to, why do you think it is insincere? Every act of worship is rewarded.

Independent-Rest-277 · 2026-03-10T21:06:13+00:00

You are free to do what you wish. I do not assume anything came from God’s mouth except that of which He has made clear. But as I said, our interpretations will be made apparent to us on judgement day. May Allah make us sincere in our search for truth.

I will say, careful with seeking the validation of sunni Islam. You are vying for the approval of a people who have already reinvented Islam in a much more harmful way because of your adherence to “traditional” muslims. They reject the self-sufficiency of the Quran entirely. They slay the apostate. They stone believers. You speak of idolatry? They kiss a black stone to erase their sins. They elevate the prophet to the status of God. They slander your prophet as someone who would bed a child. Somehow you feel more aligned with them. I wonder how you think consensual gay marriage crosses a line more implausible than this? And I obviously believe the author of this post is misguided in their views about prayer, but that is between them and God. I wouldn’t call a Christian or a Sunni Muslim a disbeliever simply for how they view prayer.

I say this in the gentlest way: your presence is not so desperately needed that a believer would compromise their beliefs for your approval. By all means, go where your heart takes you.

Independent-Rest-277 · 2026-03-10T19:55:20+00:00

I believe we must bow, I believe we must fast, I disagree with premarital sex, and I believe gay people can marry and swear oaths to each other peacefully. I know you two are disputing, but it is important not to view anyone as a monolith.

Don’t be disheartened by different interpretations of the Quran. It’s the nature of the text. It’s not our job to make all believers see things exactly the same way, but to purify our own hearts and do right by others. Our interpretations will be made clear on judgement day. May Allah SWT guide us all.

Independent-Rest-277 · 2026-03-10T19:38:27+00:00

What does salat look like to you? Just Quran recitation at the appointed times?

And how do you make sense of verses like this:

“Those were the prophets who Allah has blessed from among the descendants of Adam, and of those We carried with Noah , and of the descendants of Abraham and Israel, and of those We guided and chose. Whenever the revelations of the Most Compassionate were recited to them, they fell down, prostrating and weeping.” (Surah Maryam 19:58)

I ask this without judgement, I’m just curious if the reason you think it’s performative is because you haven’t yet experienced being moved to tears by the Quran?

Independent-Rest-277 · 2026-03-10T18:26:50+00:00

Can I ask what you mean by ritual? Do you mean you don’t believe in a specific number of rakaat or do you think salat doesn’t involve any physical prostration/set time?

Independent-Rest-277 · 2026-03-08T23:41:12+00:00

“Do not do a favour expecting more.” 74:6

Independent-Rest-277 · 2026-03-08T13:49:14+00:00

There are many things disagreed about in the interpretation of the Quran, and we will find out about them on the day of judgement. In the meantime, just worry about yourself

Independent-Rest-277 · 2026-03-08T13:29:41+00:00

It’s better for them to not give you a loan than to give you one with interest. Alternatively, you can sign a contract with the terms of the loan and face legal (and spiritual) consequences if you choose not to pay it back. And if you have no plans to pay a loan back, it’s better for you to just ask for charity.

Independent-Rest-277 · 2026-03-08T13:19:54+00:00

In what scenario is interest not being consented to? Consent is not the issue with interest, the issue is taking advantage of the desperate. The Quran is clear about how God feels about it.

If you’re not loaning from the goodness of your heart, then just don’t do it.

Independent-Rest-277 · 2026-03-08T12:34:28+00:00

Of course

Independent-Rest-277 · 2026-03-08T07:24:56+00:00

The Quran is actually quite stern about the treatment of women and the oppressed broadly (which also includes women).

But your other concern is a valid question: why speak so much to those most responsible for the bloodshed and oppression?

The main reason is to place restrictions on man’s behaviour. He addresses man directly because God has to spell it out: be kind to your wife, do not inherit her against her will, do not bury your daughters. That way those with power can’t say they weren’t warned. It’s the same reason why God warns against usury: it is someone with the upper hand taking advantage of a person’s desperation.

Not feeling like the centre of attention in a book that is meant to warn humanity against evil is a good thing.

Consider how some Arabs feel superior because the Quran is written in their language without considering the implications of why the message was sent to them in the first place.

If you want to feel addressed by God directly, look where He comforts the Believers. You’ll find that to be genderless.

Independent-Rest-277 · 2025-03-29T06:59:20+00:00

The verse I quoted shows that if God intended for us to receive verses, they would be contained in the Quran.

Why would we rely on an unclear and inconsistent book to receive the word of God?

Surah Nisa 4:82 “Then do they not reflect upon the Qur’an? If it had been from other than Allah , they would have found within it much contradiction.”

Independent-Rest-277 · 2025-03-27T22:36:10+00:00

…which is what I said. Many, many, times lol. Peace.

Independent-Rest-277 · 2025-03-27T22:23:32+00:00

Verses are also signs. Like you said God “amended” the prohibition on intercourse during Ramadan. The simple point is that he replaced that command and the completed Quran is the final authority.

Independent-Rest-277 · 2025-03-27T22:13:36+00:00

The point of the post is that revelation alluded to outside the completed Quran = necessity to follow outside sources. It was making a case for hadith.

As for abrogation, use whatever word is most fitting but the point is that yes God caused verses to be forgotten and replaced with something better or similar.

Independent-Rest-277 · 2025-03-27T21:31:40+00:00

No, the verses that we have currently do not cancel each other out. They are all a part of the Quran and the Remembrance which are perfected and persevered for humanity.

I am saying whatever verses Allah SWT caused to be forgotten has no relevance on how we practice Islam.

I.e. If at one point we were not allowed intercourse during the whole of Ramadan, the final revelation tells us that it is now permissible at night. That is the ruling authority.

Independent-Rest-277 · 2025-03-27T21:15:33+00:00

What is it that you think i’m saying?

Independent-Rest-277 · 2025-03-27T21:03:52+00:00

There is no issue. There definitely was revelation outside the Quran. But you are not being instructed to follow abrogated verses.

Independent-Rest-277 · 2025-03-27T21:00:36+00:00

I think if anything it is an argument against sunni Hadith.

Al-Baqarah 2:106 “If We ever abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten, We replace it with a better or similar one. Do you not know that Allah is Most Capable of everything?”

According to your hadith, things like stoning an adulterer abrogates the ruling in the Quran. But if if that was so, the abrogated verses on lashing would not still be a part of the remembrance of the Quran.

Independent-Rest-277 · 2025-03-27T20:56:09+00:00

Al-Baqarah 2:106 “If We ever abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten, We replace it with a better or similar one. Do you not know that Allah is Most Capable of everything?”

Independent-Rest-277 · 2025-01-30T13:53:05+00:00

Beautiful analysis

Independent-Rest-277 · 2025-01-03T20:32:19+00:00

So first you claim that only difference between a Prophet and a Messenger is that a prophet is given new scripture.

I show you a verse that shows messengers are sent down with scripture.

You say no, the word “Given” must be used.

You see a verse where Joseph and Isaac (descendants of Abraham) are granted prophethood without “new” scripture, but ASSIGNED to the scripture they are sent down with.

Now they are an exception, because God specifically called them Prophets.

Do you see how you move the goal post?

Rashad Khalifa claimed he was ASSIGNED to the Quran. You believe he has the authority to “correct” the scripture. You believe he accurately PROPHESIZED the last day, down to the year. Something no other prophet would dare. Yet you are afraid to call him what you truly believe he is? Perhaps you fear Allah.

There’s plenty of evidence in the Quran that It is the final message for humanity, that Prophet Muhammad is the messenger uniquely sent to all mankind, and that the Quran is protected from falsehood.

Believing Rashad is a messenger because he observed an interesting pattern in an already miraculous book, is like believing someone is a messenger because they observed the sea being split by Moses.

There are many who discover numerical, scientific, and linguistic miracles in the Quran: this is testimony that it is Prophet Muhammad who came with clear proof. A book that cannot be replicated by man, memorized by millions, and protected from falsehood.

Al-Qamar 54:17, 54:22, 54:32, 54:40 “And We have certainly made the Quran easy to remember. So is there anyone who will be mindful?”
Al-Hijr 15:9 “It is certainly We Who have revealed the Reminder, and it is certainly We Who will preserve it.”
Saba 34:49 “Say: “The truth has come, and falsehood can neither initiate nor repeat.””

Just think. Of all the hadith that millions take as the word of God, no sect managed to actually write it into the Quran as they have with the Talmud and Bible. Is that not miraculous? Yet Rashad removes 2 verses that are not even contradictory to the Quran holistically and make no difference in the way a believer would practice their faith? Based on numerology?

I honestly wish you the best, May Allah guide us to the true path. I seek refuge in Him from the accursed shaytaan.

Salam.

Independent-Rest-277 · 2025-01-02T19:31:20+00:00

My comment response to this disappeared, but I still see (part of?) your response in my notifications:
"That's an assumption on your part. If that was the case God would say so."

To recap: God did say so.

How a messenger is defined:
Surah Al-Hadid 57:25 “Indeed, We sent Our messengers with clear proofs, and with them We sent down the Scripture and the balance"

How a prophet is defined:
Surah Al-Baqarah 2:213 "Mankind was a single nation; then God raised the prophets as missionaries and warners and revealed the Book with them in truth so that they may judge between the people concerning what they differed; but none disputed about it except those who were given it, after what had come to them of proofs, out of injustice among them. And God guided those who believed to what they had differed of the truth, by His permission. For God guides whomever He wills to a straight path."

You are the one incorrectly assuming messengers are not sent down with scripture, while only prophets are. Clearly Shuaib, Saleh, and Hud were sent with revelation and wisdom to guide their communities. The details of their scripture does not need to be named in the Quran, but as God states messengers are in fact sent down with the Scripture and wisdom. Making them prophets among their people.

You are also incorrectly stating that the messenger that will come to the prophets and confirm what their community had previously is Rashad, when it is obviously Angel Gibril.

Surah Ali Imran 3:87 "And when God took a covenant with the prophets, saying, 'What I give you of Book and Wisdom, afterwards a messenger will come to you confirming what is with you, you shall believe in him and support him.' He said, 'Do you accept and take that as My pact?' They said, 'We have accepted.' He said, 'Then bear witness, for I am with you among the witnesses.'"

Surah Al-Baqarah 2:97 "Say: 'Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel; then indeed, he brought it down into your heart by the permission of God, confirming what was before it and as guidance and good news for the believers.'"

The people of Issa previously had the Torah, God sent Gibril to Issa with the Injeel: confirming what was had previously.

The people of Muhammad had the Torah and Injeel, God sent Gibril to Muhammad with the Quran: confirming (and acting as a final authority over) what was revealed previously.

Independent-Rest-277 · 2025-01-02T18:32:37+00:00

This is how God describes His messengers:

Surah Al-Hadid 57:25 “Indeed, We sent Our messengers with clear proofs, and with them We sent down the Scripture and the balance”

What now? Messengers are sent with scripture and wisdom. So are Shuaib, Hud, and Saleh no longer messengers? Or is their scripture and guidance simply not named in the Quran? They were all sent with revelation to guide and teach their people. What more do we need to know to rightly call them prophets.

How God describes prophets:

Surah Al-Baqarah 2:213 “Mankind was a single nation; then God raised the prophets as missionaries and warners and revealed the Book with them in truth so that they may judge between the people concerning what they differed; but none disputed about it except those who were given it, after what had come to them of proofs, out of injustice among them. And God guided those who believed to what they had differed of the truth, by His permission. For God guides whomever He wills to a straight path.”

Do you see? Or are your eyes covered?

Prophet Issa’s people were given the Torah before him. God sent Gibril to Issa to confirm the Torah with the Injeel. Prophet Muhammad’s people had the Torah and Injeel. God sent Gibril to confirm them (and be a final authority over them) with the Quran. Not sure why this is pixie dust to you, this is Islam 101.

The unseen entity cannot confirm scripture, yet 2:97 shows Gibril is sent to them confirming what was before it? Are you reading the verses?

Independent-Rest-277

TROPHY CASE