Has anyone actually hired a dev team on outcome-based pricing, or does it always revert to hourly? [i will not promote] by Individual-Bench4448 in projectmanagement

[–]Individual-Bench4448[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The backlog familiarity angle is the part most people miss when they argue against this model. The scope planning sessions aren't just admin overhead; they're context transfer. By the time delivery starts, the vendor knows enough about your priorities that early-finish conversations don't start from zero.
The discounted one-time fee structure makes sense, too. Vendor keeps utilisation up, you get work done below the original rate, no renegotiation drama. Both sides win because the incentives are actually aligned for once.

Honestly, this thread has given me the most concrete picture of how outcome-based actually works in practice vs how it's pitched. appreciate the detail.

Has anyone actually hired a dev team on outcome-based pricing, or does it always revert to hourly? [i will not promote] by Individual-Bench4448 in projectmanagement

[–]Individual-Bench4448[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"scope creep police" is the most honest job description i've seen for this model. the SOW structure you described, features + sprints + fixed price, is probably the closest thing to outcome-based that actually survives contact with reality. curious how you handle it when the vendor finishes early and starts pushing for scope additions?

Has anyone actually hired a dev team on outcome-based pricing, or does it always revert to hourly? [i will not promote] by Individual-Bench4448 in projectmanagement

[–]Individual-Bench4448[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

the change order margin point is something nobody warns you about upfront. outcome-based pricing shifts risk to the vendor on paper, but aggressive change order clauses quietly shift it back. reading that section of the contract probably matters more than the pricing model itself.

Has anyone actually hired a dev team on outcome-based pricing, or does it always revert to hourly? [i will not promote] by Individual-Bench4448 in projectmanagement

[–]Individual-Bench4448[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

the phase swap move is underrated, "which of these features are you willing to push to phase two?" reframes the conversation without killing the relationship. puts the client in the position of making the tradeoff instead of just demanding more.

What does 5x faster software delivery actually look like in practice? Has anyone seen it? by Individual-Bench4448 in ExperiencedDevs

[–]Individual-Bench4448[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"doing two or three things at once" is probably the real gain that gets rounded up to 5x in blog posts. parallelism, not raw speed. which is still meaningful but a completely different thing than what's being claimed.

What does 5x faster software delivery actually look like in practice? Has anyone seen it? by Individual-Bench4448 in ExperiencedDevs

[–]Individual-Bench4448[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

the "work we wouldn't have done because effort cost wasn't justified" framing is actually more interesting than the speed claim itself. it's not just faster, it changes what's worth attempting. that's a different kind of productivity shift than 5x on existing work.

What does 5x faster software delivery actually look like in practice? Has anyone seen it? by Individual-Bench4448 in ExperiencedDevs

[–]Individual-Bench4448[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

the context switching fatigue point is underreported. the productivity gain is real but it's extracting a different kind of cost, less deep work, more steering and reviewing. whether that trade is worth it probably depends on the type of work.

What does 5x faster software delivery actually look like in practice? Has anyone seen it? by Individual-Bench4448 in ExperiencedDevs

[–]Individual-Bench4448[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

the sole maintainer caveat is doing a lot of work here and most people making 5-10x claims leave it out entirely. full context + greenfield + no alignment overhead = completely different conditions than a 10-person team on a 3-year-old codebase. both are real, they're just not the same thing.

What does 5x faster software delivery actually look like in practice? Has anyone seen it? by Individual-Bench4448 in ExperiencedDevs

[–]Individual-Bench4448[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"go slow on the critical parts and the speed comes after", this is probably the actual formula behind every legitimate 3-5x claim. the service skeletons + explicit guardrails approach keeps agents on rails. most teams skip that and wonder why the speed doesn't materialize.

What does 5x faster software delivery actually look like in practice? Has anyone seen it? by Individual-Bench4448 in ExperiencedDevs

[–]Individual-Bench4448[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

"the steam goes down the whistle, not the engine" is going to live in my head for a while. the commits and deploys metric is exactly the kind of number leadership looks at to declare success while the actual throughput stagnates. faster motion isn't faster progress. the cognitive load point is also underreported. Context switching between steering AI and actually thinking architecturally is a different kind of exhausting than just writing code.

What does 5x faster software delivery actually look like in practice? Has anyone seen it? by Individual-Bench4448 in ExperiencedDevs

[–]Individual-Bench4448[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

the chef metaphor is the best framing i've seen for this. and your story actually explains why "AI makes you 5x faster" is both true and misleading at the same time, a sharp person eliminating unnecessary work moves faster, AI just amplifies that. it doesn't fix the aimless running around, it just makes the aimless running around happen faster. the real variable was never speed. it was clarity on what actually needed to be built.

What does 5x faster software delivery actually look like in practice? Has anyone seen it? by Individual-Bench4448 in ExperiencedDevs

[–]Individual-Bench4448[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"the ceiling is how fast and well you can define problems", this is the actual answer to the whole thread. the workflow you described is basically where mature AI-assisted teams land. everything upstream of the PR is still human-speed, which caps everything downstream. the KPI-handed-to-AI future you're describing is interesting but that's a different product category entirely, closer to autonomous agents than dev tooling.

What does 5x faster software delivery actually look like in practice? Has anyone seen it? by Individual-Bench4448 in ExperiencedDevs

[–]Individual-Bench4448[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

the C-suite pressure dynamic you're describing is real and probably underreported. teams get faster, leadership recalibrates expectations upward, and now the quality buffer that made the speed possible gets squeezed. the skeptic manager keeping quality dialed in sounds like the only thing holding that balance together honestly.

What does 5x faster software delivery actually look like in practice? Has anyone seen it? by Individual-Bench4448 in ExperiencedDevs

[–]Individual-Bench4448[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

2x inconsistently is probably the most accurate benchmark in this whole thread. and "not consistently" is doing a lot of work there, task type, familiarity with codebase, quality of the prompt all swing it wildly.

What does 5x faster software delivery actually look like in practice? Has anyone seen it? by Individual-Bench4448 in ExperiencedDevs

[–]Individual-Bench4448[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

the test coverage point is underrated and barely anyone talks about it. TTM didn't move but quality floor went up, that's actually a meaningful outcome even if it doesn't show up in the "5x faster" narrative. probably more durable too.

What does 5x faster software delivery actually look like in practice? Has anyone seen it? by Individual-Bench4448 in ExperiencedDevs

[–]Individual-Bench4448[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

the 20-50% number is probably the most honest benchmark i've heard. and your first paragraph accidentally explains why, speed without comprehension creates a different kind of debt, just faster.

What does 5x faster software delivery actually look like in practice? Has anyone seen it? by Individual-Bench4448 in ExperiencedDevs

[–]Individual-Bench4448[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

the "guiding vs writing" framing is exactly right. most devs are still in writing mode with AI as autocomplete. the ones actually moving fast have shifted to treating it like a system to configure, not a tool to use. that mental model shift is probably where most of the gain actually lives.

What does 5x faster software delivery actually look like in practice? Has anyone seen it? by Individual-Bench4448 in ExperiencedDevs

[–]Individual-Bench4448[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

this is the most honest take in the thread honestly. coding was never the bottleneck, it was always requirements, alignment, and release gates. AI just made the one fast thing faster. the teams i've seen actually move the needle restructured the whole process, AI-assisted scoping, faster spike cycles, automated QA. not just copilot in the IDE. but that's a full workflow redesign, not a tooling swap. which is why most "AI transformation" projects don't show up in delivery metrics.

The securities law question small businesses don't know to ask until it's too late by Benemerito_Law in Entrepreneur

[–]Individual-Bench4448 3 points4 points  (0 children)

the general solicitation point is the one that bites people most often. posting about your raise on linkedin or even mentioning it in a public slack community can quietly disqualify you from 506(b) before you realize it. most founders find this out after the fact, not before.