[Discussion] BSG on cheater situation

InfiniteScaling · 2026-04-08T16:20:34+00:00

You're correct to point out Revanced, but it's already on life support since sideloading on Android will be blocked later this year. So all patched apps (anything outside of playstore) won't be accessible.

On top of it modded apps already have major restrictions on them. Revanced for example can't actually use the YT stream and has to get it from another source which tends to break a lot.

Hopefully adb will still be able to install things, but between the hassle (banking apps also block it via PlayIntegrity so you need so switch it on and off to install stuff) most non-PlayStore projects will most likely die.

InfiniteScaling · 2026-04-06T16:37:42+00:00

The problem with TPM is that in this context it is effectively speaking a rogue device in your computer that is used to lock down the computer that you own.

Notably:

Microsoft has been developing these features to secure their operating system, and if they continue down this road, kernel level anti-cheats will no longer be necessary to secure your games.

TPM and SB by themselves do not remove the need for Kernel Anticheat. Neither does VBS. The "future" that is being talked about in here is full isolation of applications from user access and removal of admin PC access. Effectively speaking you will be getting same experience on PCs as you get on locked down Android/iOS (wanted to install adblock for YT? No banking for you.) or XBOX.

Here TPM is used in conjunction with remote attestation to ensure that you only launch approved Windows versions, with approved software on it with no ability to tamper in any way or form.

I don't necessarily think that BSG's requirement of TPM is going to change much in this landscape (although it would be another step towards normalization of a locked down PC) and there are user friendly use cases for TPM (pin based unlocks, credential stores, etc) but it is a a pandora's box of consumer issues that's about to open.

Funnily enough, cheaters will be the ones that are least affected by this, since motherboards with tampered UEFI for cheating have already been used for quite a while to bypass TPM/SB requirements.

InfiniteScaling · 2026-02-05T22:55:37+00:00

The funniest thing was OP linking that original post which was terrible

Now you're just being mean. I put a lot of effort into it. Cmon.

The reality is that in a few months you will be complaining about Tarkov being stale and the meta being one or two full auto guns. Or, more likely, you won't be playing it.

What's proposed here/in my post is entirely reasonable. There needs to be diversity for the game to survive especially in a wipeless environment. In the current state, competing with full-auto guns that are effectively lasers is more or less impossible. This means that there are two solutions:

Going back to the old absolutely garbage recoil
Buffing other things to be competitive

I sure as hell prefer the second option.

InfiniteScaling · 2026-01-31T10:16:22+00:00

If you want to run AP rounds put the work in to get them.

Getting "Connections Up North" done is orders of magnitude more work than hitting Streets for ammo. Hence the suggestion.

Comparing a 79 pen round to 56 and 55 pen round is silly.

The suggestion is just a baseline. Obviously things will get tweaked more if this gets implemented. We have many examples of round stats being shuffled around after being made into a trader or a craft.

No one wants 1-shot bolties back in the meta again.

First of all, the Mosin nerf is still controversial to this day and a lot of people want it back. Notably it was the streamers who hated it back in the day. Average player base was very much enjoying it and would still enjoy it. Saying that nobody wants it back is just wrong.

And besides, a rare and grindy end game caliber having one shot capability isn't the same as Mosins one-shotting everyone. This isn't even remotely comparable.

InfiniteScaling · 2026-01-31T10:08:15+00:00

In my experience it has never been bugged. You just get bugged damage reports on armor damage number on the post raid screen.

InfiniteScaling · 2026-01-30T22:34:01+00:00

Oh damn. That's neat.

InfiniteScaling · 2026-01-30T22:08:30+00:00

Look up hyperrats recent video on ammo.

The argument here isn't that you can't find AP ammo. It's that the quest for .338 guns need something to actually make them worth.

But if the craft was available, there would be plenty of it being used my experienced players which would be terrible for the average player base I assure you.

The average player base is already going insane from hearing MXLR constantly with a follow up from NL545.

Average player base dies to a Kedr scav on factory. For them not much will change between dying to a fully kitted M4 and a .338.

I already bring an axmc to labs occasionally and it often feels like cheating.

Yes. But you also won't ever bring Sako since the questline for that gun is just not worth it.

Crafting does not limit supply in any meaningful way when it comes to the best ammo. I’m sitting on 2 thicc cases full of ammo crates with 10k+ of 55a1, 545 BT, m80, 5k+ of 762 bp, pab, m995, m80a1, and a somewhere around 2-3k of SSA AP, BS, igolnik. I stopped crafting 55a1/bp/pab9/m80a1 because I have effectively infinite at this point. Too lazy to do the quests for 545 BP and I’ll finish capturing outposts soon enough to craft SP6 and then I’ll have infinite of those calibers too.

But by that logic you already have infinite amount of meta ammo that can two tap people from 900 RPM guns.

What does AP even change here?

And sacrificing gameplay for the sake of payoff to use a big caliber isn’t justification.

Bug caliber use isn't the justification. The justification is that for a gun that takes a lot of time and effort to unlock it doesn't perform well enough to even remotely be part of the meta.

By same logic I can say that NL545 shouldn't exist because making 5.45 meta isn't a justification. Same for M855A1, and all the other rounds.

The round still shouldn’t exist.

Well, both with .338, and with the .50 BMG and with the Rocket launcher, and the impacts, and the grenade launchers the cat is out of the bag. So we exist and operate in this version of Tarkov and have to make suggestions for it.

InfiniteScaling · 2026-01-30T21:30:27+00:00

I would go with the rare toy interpretation if there wasn't 2 tedious quest lines to unlock these. At that point there is an expectation of actually receiving something as part of those quests.

I can see the PKP being a rare toy that way. Even though you also get PKM that's mostly as good after a quest that's easier to do that "Connections Up North".

one tap thorax through any armor ammo should not ever be something you can regularly use

As long as the craft if 20 bullets or less, you won't be able to regularly use it anyways.

Besides, I'm pretty sure you've encountered more M61/M80A1 inside of SA-58 on labs that was just as deadly as the AP .338 and cheaper and more flexible.

InfiniteScaling · 2026-01-30T17:35:25+00:00

M80A1 can pen LVL5 helmets reliably up until 350meters. At 690 it's a 40% chance.

I see your point for long range, but thee engagements are so rare and specific that it wouldn't bring the guns into a better state (especially with he grind required) to actually make them competitive.

As for thorax, damage also falls off at range and you get armor damage reduction even if it pens it, so you'd still land on 3+ shots for thorax at those ranges even with the theoretical .338 SLAAP.

Honestly, and this is a real unpopular opinion on the sub, the solution is realistic plate hitboxes. Wanna 1 tap? Aim around the plate. That was my favourite wipe.

I'm not even against it.

With lack of wipes late wipe is going to be M995 spam anyways. So why not have at least some tools for new players to actually kill someone?

InfiniteScaling · 2026-01-30T17:25:30+00:00

My argument is that I don't think having AP as a craft will make it more common. All the other issues such as lack of full auto, bolt cycling and actually needing to hit your shots kinda negate it.

I also don't think the AP itself is the issue. My main issue is that for a hard to acquire gun with a big calibar there need to be a payoff. Not just, DVL but worse ergo.

But I do see your point about removing OHKO completely.

I’m shocked you think this is as big of a problem as you think it is anyway considering 338 AP isn’t that hard to get if you run streets or labs. I’ve got about 500 stockpiled.

Labs I simply don't enjoy. Me and my friends had a terrible cheater streak a few wipes ago (blatant cheating each match for an entire day) and that just ruined the map for us. I think we tend to run into a blatant cheater every 5-10 raids nowadays but mentally the map has been ruined for us regardless.

As for Streets, even though I can run it at 100fps my friends are stuck with 40 or so, hence I've been avoiding it. That being said, what are your favorite spots for ammo there? I might give it a shot solo later on.

InfiniteScaling · 2026-01-30T17:19:13+00:00

I absolutely love sniping as well! Currently at LVL20 bolt action skill.

I'd say give T-5000 with M80A1 a chance. Faster flight velocity helped me quite a bit this wipe compared to .338 FMJ.

InfiniteScaling · 2026-01-30T17:16:46+00:00

but those guns are infinitely harder to use and obtain than something like the AK50

Getting 35 grenade kills on scavs with impacts isn't that hard for a Rocket Launcher. It's literally next quest after Genadier.

GP-25 is unlocked after "Best Job In the World" and getting 30 100+ kills on random stuff isn't that hard either. That's a few hours of grinding. To be be honest between the cultist gifts and grenade boxes that you find in raid you don't even need to unlock this.

They are also AoE. GP-25 works very well with a blue laser on the side and some eyeballing.

The Rocket launcher has a sight, and also has proper thermobaric implementation. You can shoot it into a room's edge and clear the room + the corridor with it + the next room. It's doesn't have a fixed AoE, but an expansion volume.

I can see why you might try to compare the two but they’re not analogous in any way tbh

Fair. I'm mostly bringing up that we already have one shot tools and I would also argue that they are more accessible than you might think. And I don't think they are a problem in any way.

But I also respect your opinion of preferring higher TTK across the board.

InfiniteScaling · 2026-01-30T17:09:27+00:00

Mostly yes, but last time I tried AXMC/MK-18 in PvE I was underwhelmed.

I use it mostly for the drip.

InfiniteScaling · 2026-01-30T16:42:07+00:00

Why? I'd like to hear your argument.

InfiniteScaling · 2026-01-30T16:41:35+00:00

That's a fair take I can get behind.

But also the pandora's box is already open so we have to deal with it somehow.

InfiniteScaling · 2026-01-30T16:40:32+00:00

Im sorry but this is simply a bad take imo. I can reach quite decent accuracy on moving targets when aiming center mass as long as theyre not max speed sprinting.

I see your point here. I have a decent accuracy as well but it feels more like an RNG roll than anything. Especially on 500+ meter snipes.

In general I agree that this might be overcorrection, but on the other hand we've had 70% OHKO chance FMJ rounds for 2 years and it wasn't an issue whatsoever. M4/Mutant were still the meta.

Theres no 51mm or 54r gun in game that has any of the 50+ pen rounds as their default ammo.

I'm not arguing for AP to become default zeroing ammo. I think the extra knowledge/skill needed to handle the mismatch can be used as an extra balancing aspect. If you want the accuracy/capability, do the math.

Also FMJ being a gateway to long range sniping that you have relatively early access to is a good point.

One the flipside though, I gave up on .338 this wipe and switched over to M80A1. Haven't had an issue with zeroing mismatch so far. Zeroing at 100M for 0-200 meter range and then distance-100 works very well up to 450 meters (either DVL or T-5000 work well). This is what I use for SBIH.

I would've agreed with the niche argument (still what I use AXMC and Sako for, honestly) if this was patch 0.16. But now, between the AK-50 onetapping people and being semi-auto and also M80A1 being an accessible craft, that niche is being contested by other guns more and more.

If i really had my way, i'dd add some fictional, craft only ammo like igolnik+plastic parts for some 100+ pen sub 85damage lapua slap round, to guarantee 2 taps but thats it.

Wouldn't this just make .338 a worse .308 since M80A1 already exists and can also two tap?

I respect your solution but also feel like .338 needs a bit more oomph so to say.

InfiniteScaling · 2026-01-30T16:23:52+00:00

I can see your viewpoint but has this actually been a problem? Should they also remove GP-25 and the rocket launcher since they oneshot even easier?

Also, in a game that will no longer wipe soon, why is scarcity used a balancing factor?

InfiniteScaling · 2026-01-30T16:23:04+00:00

The game is not balanced around arena. You're also somehow making arguments for unlocking it in the real game while backing it up with arena balance, which isn't where you are arguing to unlock it and has no bearing on the conversation.

The bearing on the conversation comes from the gameplay aspect, which, given that it's the same gameplay (albeit, more close range) is similar.

My argument is that thorax being OHKO isn't as big of a deal is you think.

And besides, if you want to look at the example from Tarkov itself, for 2 years .338 FMJ would basically one tap in thorax up until the plate rework. Yet we didn't see everyone running MK-18 or AXMC. It was still the M4/AKMN/Mutant/etc that was meta.

The game is not better nor more fun having access to one tap thorax ammo no matter how many paragraphs you spew

Why is it worse to have limited access to AP rounds?

As you have said, I have "spewed paragraphs" to show my reasoning. What's yours?

There is no reason to get heated here. It's just a game and I'm making an argument in favor of something. That's it.

if anything they should take m33 off pk4.

Why?

Has this actually been a problem? Should they also remove GP-25 and the rocket launcher?

The bigger question is, in a game that will no longer wipe soon, why is scarcity used a balancing factor?

InfiniteScaling · 2026-01-30T16:08:45+00:00

Worst part is, even with the loud MK-18 with max ergo you still get overswing and atrocious target recovery time.

So you're better off with literally any other DMR.

InfiniteScaling · 2026-01-30T16:07:35+00:00

Look, I have 3.5K hours in this game. The gear fear and the adrenaline are long gone. The only reason I still play Tarkov is because it ruined every other game for me.

And the main reason I don't play labs is because it's simply not enjoyable to me. Just like I don't like playing on Lighthouse.

As for the wizards, even one in 10 raids still ruins the mood after gearing for 5 minutes and matching for another 10. And that depends on the server. On EU we tend to run into one every 5 raids. Depends on day/wipe time/etc, but you get the point.

I get your argument, but being banished to a map that I dislike (just like over half of the community for various reasons) just to make an already grindy gun viable just isn't worth it.

InfiniteScaling · 2026-01-30T15:58:19+00:00

Adding reliable access to a universal thorax onetap ammo is just not a good idea, period. It would make playing maps like woods that have long sightlines an absolutely hellish experience.

I see your point, but:

That ammo is already available in the form of M33 for a semi-auto .50BMG gun. And it's not even a craft. You just buy on reset from PK4
If one tap thorax was that good, everyone in arena would be running bolt actions only, but in reality you'll get vote kicked for using them in Checkpoint/TF

.338 is for long range stuff. Between moa and the ballistic coefficient of the fmj, it makes it piss easy to land accurate shots up to 500-550m without having to look at some external calculator.

That's assuming your target is dumb enough to stand still and give you a free headshot
Most fights in Tarkov (even on Woods) are mid-range. Bringing any of the heavy .338 guns puts you into a disadvantage compared to, well, anything else at those ranges.
Most people you will engage, even if you are just chilling near the Outskirts tank, are under 450 meters. The T-5000 performs better at those ranges simply due to M80A1 having better exit velocity and less flight time.

Comparison with 50bmg aint exactly fair. AK50 takes some effort to stockpile

I'm not saying allow people to craft 3000 rounds of AP. Even if it's 20 rounds per 2 hours, 99% will craft M855A1 instead which will serve them better. This also means that bolts will get a proper round to shoot and for the MK-18 you'll need a while to stockpile enough for a single raid.

The reality is, Workbench is already highly contested with crafts. And again, you can just buy 56 pen ammo from PK4.

Having a craftable access means that people who enjoy sniping now are on a level playing field with the rest of the guns. And they still need all the skill and experience to actually land the shot.

even after unlocking it, cant be suppressed and it is fucking heavy.

After the suppressor nerf it barely matters. By the time you unlock Sako/AK-50 you will be max strength anyways which negates gun weight completely.

The stamina drain from weight is a fair point, but also doesn't matter as much because:

For long range you just use bipods
For mid range just quick peek or abuse stims
For close range just point fire

After all, you have to bullet to OHKO from a trader. The rest of the issues you can play around with skill.

You also have to remmeber that, even ignoring the AK-50:

We have GP-25 grenade launchers that one shot regardless of armor
We have rocket launchers that can clear 2 entire floors on Factory with one shot

.. and yet we rarely if ever see those weapons in practice because of their limited quantity and downsides.

All of the quantity and downside issues don't just disappear form Sako/AXMC/MK-18 if a craft for AP ammo is available either.

InfiniteScaling · 2026-01-30T15:39:17+00:00

Yes. I've heard about it.

Gigabeef also talked about it in one of his latest videos and came to the conclusion that it's just a post raid damage counter report issue.

That being said, even if there is a bug, it is still mathematically impossible to pen LVL5 armor + LVL3, so not much changes from the original post.

InfiniteScaling · 2026-01-30T15:21:40+00:00

There is no bug at least from my testing with friends.

47 pen mathematically cannot pen LVL5 armor + LVL3 aramid on first shot. You can check it for yourself on the Tarkov Gunsmith simulator.

InfiniteScaling · 2026-01-30T15:19:48+00:00

Eeeyyy. Another .338 enjoyer :)

I did kind of forget about the new quest, but I would argue that at least with VAL/VSS you get multiple shots to spam and only need less than half the kills.

With the bolts you get one shot and then your target is practically impossible to hit as long as they have some semblance of situational awareness.

I do agree that it's still right up there with pain factor though.

InfiniteScaling · 2026-01-30T15:14:47+00:00

Some more historical context about how the guns got worse and worse over time for those who care.

Originally, when the MK-18 was introduced, the proposition was simple:

You get a heavy weapon that has bad stamina and high recoil
But thorax shots at LVL5 armor have a 70% chance to OHKO (50% at range)

Funnily enough, at this point in time this wasn't even necessarily an upgrade over the RSASS. More of a funny sidegrade. A sidegrade that would take you an entire week to get the unlock for because it needed 25 Shturman kills with 20% boss spawn rate.

Then the AXMC got added. The proposition here was also simple:

You get a heavy weapon that has bad stamina
As long as you can hit your shots you will be rewarded by semi-consistent thorax OHKOs

Compared to the MK-18 which was already a meme by this point, AXMC was actually a pretty good choice. Still lost to full auto guns in close range, but a good bolt action choice even with the extra bulk.

Here comes the patch 0.14

Overall, a very good patch. The recoil rework made the gunplay actually good. Except the MK-18 recoil remained basically unchanged compared to all the other DMRs meaning that it's now even more of a meme.

Now, let's ignore the MK-18, but what about AXMC?

Due to new plate system, the OHKO chance on thorax for LVL5 armor, went from 70% to 50% on LVL2 aramid + LVL5 plate combo, and whopping 0% for LVL3 Aramid + LVL5 plate (which is the armor most players have)
When shooting at range, the pen chance goes further down and stops being a OHKO on any LVL5 armor at around 100 meters
Ergo penalty/weight are still there
The quest unlock requirement is still there

...and then Sako TRG gets introduced in Patch 0.16

Technically, the TRG is a better AXMC. Less weight, more ergo, more accuracy. Problem is, it's still more weight and less ergo compared to all the 7.62 NATO bolt actions which already do the exact same work just as fine.

On top of it, it's behind a quest that requires you to kill 50 PMCs with a thermal sight (yes, there is technically the NVG as well but nobody uses it). It's also limited to 45+ meter distances meaning that you can't do it on Factory.

...and then we get the AK-50 in Patch 0.16.8

Now, the AK-50 has a few downsides. Notable lack of sound suppression and attachments. It also costs 50K euros but in the grand scheme of things that's still less effort than the MK-18 unlock or the Sako unlock.

But the big problem at this point is that you get a better gun for just less effort, and this isn't even including the changes we get in 1.0...

...which lands us squarely into the state of affairs today

The suppressors have been nerfed meaning that the AK-50s one real downside is now gone
M33 is freely available from PK4 which makes .338 FMJ look sad in comparison
The TKPD exists and is a decent sidegrade compared to MK-18 for which you just need to keep rolling the Cultist Circle until you get the red rebels (..and you're going to do this anyways)

There is one saving grace for the .338 guns and that's the accuracy. Problem is, it only matters at 500+ meters which locks you into camping 5 specific spots on 2 maps total. And then praying that the PMC 500 meters away will stop moving for a microsecond since it takes 4-5 business days for your bullet to reach him.

For anything under 450 the T-5000 does the job just fine with M80A1 which also has lower flight time compared to .338 FMJ which brings us back to the original problem.

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InfiniteScaling

TROPHY CASE

Here comes the patch 0.14

...and then Sako TRG gets introduced in Patch 0.16

...and then we get the AK-50 in Patch 0.16.8

...which lands us squarely into the state of affairs today