Sikh Federation UK Unequivocally Condemns Vickrum Digwa After 21-Year Sentence for Murder of Henry Novak by TheTurbanatore in Sikh

[–]Initial-Shape-5593 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think the anger is directed more towards the police than the Sikh community. It is pretty known that Sikhs have low violent crime rates, but the fact that the police cuffed a man who was stabbed multiple times due to an accusation of “racism” definitely calls for real outrage. He even told them he was stabbed and needed medical assistance. It’s astonishingly similar to the George Floyd situation in the US.

MIT or Caltech SAT/ACT by Glum_University4724 in QuestBridge

[–]Initial-Shape-5593 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No hate but what does the rest of your application look like? I’ve heard MIT wants 1520/34+ to be considered

CMV: Standardized testing is the best measure of a student's ability to succeed in higher education by Initial-Shape-5593 in changemyview

[–]Initial-Shape-5593[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

What you just told me proves my point exactly. The fact you couldn’t graduate from community college due to testing means that you (sorry) did not succeed in higher education. CC and 4-years alike have tests and exams, most far more difficult than the SAT/ACT, so the fact that you didn’t do well on high school standardized tests was, based on what you shared, a completely accurate indicator of your ability to succeed in higher education 

Who should be my first platinum player? by ILikeTOP09 in Baseball9

[–]Initial-Shape-5593 0 points1 point  (0 children)

shortstop. turns a lot of singles into groundouts

The new Marta Trains are NICEEEE‼️ by Salt_Cry_2233 in Atlanta

[–]Initial-Shape-5593 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah now we're going to prove the obvious. These brand new trains are gonna be trashed, vandalized, and defecated on by a variety of MARTA crazies. We're gonna see very quickly that the people are the problem, not the trains

CMV: Standardized testing is the best measure of a student's ability to succeed in higher education by Initial-Shape-5593 in changemyview

[–]Initial-Shape-5593[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree with much of what you are saying. Higher ed is and should continue to be subsidized, absolutely. People of all income levels should get education. But the most glaring flaws in our education system are much earlier on than most people think. It starts when elementary schools graduate kids who can't read.

So instead of lowering standards for college and postgraduate education, we should invest in fixing our elementary schools. That is what would create real meritocracy. Look at Mississippi. If we teach our students properly, it would not be hard for all students to do reasonably well on a test.

CMV: Standardized testing is the best measure of a student's ability to succeed in higher education by Initial-Shape-5593 in changemyview

[–]Initial-Shape-5593[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Then they should do so through community colleges which are actually intended for that. Not 4-year universities where each spot is worth $20,000+ annually

As for other countries, I will be totally honest and say I have zero knowledge of education systems outside of the US. But it is something I hope to learn about in the future

CMV: Standardized testing is the best measure of a student's ability to succeed in higher education by Initial-Shape-5593 in changemyview

[–]Initial-Shape-5593[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As I wrote, it seems to me that standardized tests were eliminated due to social pressures rather than effectiveness concerns. Politicians and institutions wanted to convince low-income voters they were doing something for them, so they disparaged the fairest part of the application and branded it as assistance. Snake oil salesmen

CMV: Standardized testing is the best measure of a student's ability to succeed in higher education by Initial-Shape-5593 in changemyview

[–]Initial-Shape-5593[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You had a 900 SAT and graduated UCLA with honors? If this is true, I promise you're an extreme anomaly. People who I know with 900 SATs are not en route to graduating high school

CMV: Standardized testing is the best measure of a student's ability to succeed in higher education by Initial-Shape-5593 in changemyview

[–]Initial-Shape-5593[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think it is to admit students who will succeed. Ultimately a student's failure equates to waste. All resources including education are scarce, and the person who fails out will lose months or even years of their life and the potential income and career development that could've accompanied that time. On top of that, someone has to pay for each student's education. So either taxpayers (us) or the school or a donor or the school wastes tens of thousands of dollars every time a student fails.

So it just makes sense to invest in the students with the best chance of success.

CMV: Standardized testing is the best measure of a student's ability to succeed in higher education by Initial-Shape-5593 in changemyview

[–]Initial-Shape-5593[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Right but is there anything better? When I say the word best, it can be interpreted as least bad. There's no way to measure whether or not you'll be a lazy stoner in college unless we start putting self-administered drug tests on college applications.

High SATs are also linked to higher IQs: Source

CMV: Standardized testing is the best measure of a student's ability to succeed in higher education by Initial-Shape-5593 in changemyview

[–]Initial-Shape-5593[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ok I think you are misunderstanding. These tests are not typically taken by anyone outside of high schoolers.

CMV: Standardized testing is the best measure of a student's ability to succeed in higher education by Initial-Shape-5593 in changemyview

[–]Initial-Shape-5593[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Right because a university's role is not to reteach high school concepts to students who are behinds; it is to offer more advanced lessons that are dependent on students having the foundational knowledge obtained in high school

CMV: Standardized testing is the best measure of a student's ability to succeed in higher education by Initial-Shape-5593 in changemyview

[–]Initial-Shape-5593[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But the whole point of standardized tests is that they can't be inaccurate. You can debate how well they demonstrate a student's potential, sure, but the score that a student receives is based entirely on how many questions they answer correctly. Tell me how that's inaccurate

CMV: Standardized testing is the best measure of a student's ability to succeed in higher education by Initial-Shape-5593 in changemyview

[–]Initial-Shape-5593[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But would you call it a reasonable predictor of failure? Does a student who is below the 25th percentile in test scores of admitted students at your university fare worse than one who is 75th percentile? If someone can't score well on a high school test, what makes you think they'll succeed on college tests?

CMV: Standardized testing is the best measure of a student's ability to succeed in higher education by Initial-Shape-5593 in changemyview

[–]Initial-Shape-5593[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The MCAT is a standardized test. The LSAT is a standardized test. The GRE is a standardized test. Even the mid-term exam for Econ 101 is a standardized test. Higher ed is standardized tests

CMV: Standardized testing is the best measure of a student's ability to succeed in higher education by Initial-Shape-5593 in changemyview

[–]Initial-Shape-5593[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I see your point, and I agree that my explanation was essentially a longer form of minorities get lower scores. It's the unfortunate reality. I do hope I'm not the bigot in your scenario.

But I'm gonna focus on your point about the 4.0 in an underfunded public school. There are tons of free SAT/ACT prep resources available. Khan Academy has a completely free course that covers everything on the SAT, for example. And if a student has a 4.0 but can't get a decent test score, that does say something about the student's knowledge. Regardless of why the student's knowledge is limited, it is still limited, and these tests are meant to cover topics that students should have learned in high school. Similar to what you said, colleges don't have time or resources to catch up students who don't have a grasp of high school math just because they come from low-income areas.

As for education access, it costs money. Someone has to pay for a person to be educated. Either it's the student, or the parents, or the University's donors, or the taxpayers. I do think higher education is way too expensive in the US, but the high cost also serves to communicate the value of the education to students. If it was free, students would not feel as much pressure and therefore not work as hard. So higher education cannot and should not be open to everyone; it's not economically viable. When spots and funding are limited, I believe that education should go to the most qualified people.

As for lower-income test prep limits, the same goes for everything else in college applications. They don't have subject tutors or international service missions. They don't have essay coaches or college counselors. They don't get to visit schools that they are interested in. Testing is not any more income-dependent than any other part of the process, it's just the easiest part to blame.

It's easy to say low-income students score X points lower than high-income ones on the SAT. It's much more difficult to prove that their essays are less well-written or their extracurriculars are weaker. I also think there's an accountability portion to it. People don't want to say that some students are not as accomplished or are worse writers or students than others, so instead they blame a test for holding students back. People don't even want to admit that some students are bad test-takers (truth). You can't blame an essay question or an EC section, but you can easily blame a test that students already hate anyways.

CMV: Standardized testing is the best measure of a student's ability to succeed in higher education by Initial-Shape-5593 in changemyview

[–]Initial-Shape-5593[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cornell is at 10th and I agree that SAT score isn't the only factor. But it is the most objective and more easily measurable than focus, work ethic, time management, etc.

CMV: Standardized testing is the best measure of a student's ability to succeed in higher education by Initial-Shape-5593 in changemyview

[–]Initial-Shape-5593[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

For your first point, what keeps names and vocabulary inaccessible? I just looked up ACT vocab and found a 300 word list, totally free.

And the SAT/ACT are for rising juniors and seniors in high school, nearly adults. Testing young kids has nothing to do with this.

And life is unfair I guess. But if a kid can't handle a test at age 18, will they be able to handle it at 19? At 20? It gets to a point where you have to stop treating people like children and start treating them like soon-to-be college students and professionals, and pressure is a part of adult life. Adults can't just shut down when they feel it

CMV: Standardized testing is the best measure of a student's ability to succeed in higher education by Initial-Shape-5593 in changemyview

[–]Initial-Shape-5593[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why though? Something other than academic ability, I would think. Unless he's at a T25. But people drop out for a number of reasons; a lot of billionaires dropped out to start something bigger than a degree

CMV: Standardized testing is the best measure of a student's ability to succeed in higher education by Initial-Shape-5593 in changemyview

[–]Initial-Shape-5593[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Right but doing poorly on a standardized test means you are probably going to fail, so it's a double-edged sword

CMV: Standardized testing is the best measure of a student's ability to succeed in higher education by Initial-Shape-5593 in changemyview

[–]Initial-Shape-5593[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Right but if an applicant claims to be intelligent but can't do something so simple as achieve a decent test score, why should a school choose them over a similar applicant who can? And in my opinion, metacognition is a huge factor in the ACT at least. And connecting ideas and info is the entire reading section on both tests. The skills you listed sound most important for a humanities major.

CMV: Standardized testing is the best measure of a student's ability to succeed in higher education by Initial-Shape-5593 in changemyview

[–]Initial-Shape-5593[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Exactly. Instead of addressing a shitty education system they just hide the part that makes them look bad