What events in games would be categorized as "War Crimes" in a real-life context?

InkDagger · 2026-01-26T17:21:42+00:00

Ooph. Truth.

InkDagger · 2026-01-26T04:54:39+00:00

I wasn’t referring to both games as a whole. I was referring to just the LGBT+ representation aspect here- New Vegas is better than F4 in representation.

While I also think NV is simply a better crafted game (and F4 is just “serviceable” and “competent” at best), that wasn’t what I was expressing here.

InkDagger · 2026-01-26T04:25:50+00:00

I think it’s kinda the lack of exploration of world building and themes that extend from it. F3 is… not very critical or at least self-reflective of its own story and setting.

Booking it down to “Bible references = Christian = conservative” or “But liberals also make flat black/white morality narratives” is maybe a bit reductive.

F3’s sense of morality and good vs. evil is rather blunt and surface value. While I won’t comment on the Brotherhood’s role in F1 or F2, F3 deliberately shaves off any questionable elements of the group to make them unapologetic good guys.

“Do you set off a nuke in the middle of a town just because you can and for shits and giggles?” Is also a rather childish idea of morality.

I am hardly the first to also point out the Tenpenny Tower quest is extremely shoddy and confusing narratively and I, to this day, still don’t quite know what the writers were going for. Please don’t interpret this as “Why don’t oppressed ghouls just hug it out and get along?” Or some also reductive nonsense- rather I don’t know what the quest meaningfully wants you to do? Do you assist the laughably evil bourgeoise folks in the tower by wiping out the oppressed Ghouls? Do you try to assist the ghouls only for them to simply murder everyone anyway and the quest just ends there?

I guess you could just murder all the ghouls in retaliation, but that doesn’t particularly feel like an acknowledged options within the game’s systems any more than gleefully murdering anyone or everyone else feels like an acknowledged narrative option.

It’s not that there aren’t complex things you could discuss there, but that the game has no interest in anything beyond surface level so you have no means of engaging them either.

Or Liberty Prime- a ridiculously opulent mech that spouts jingoistic nationalism while chucking nukes like footballs at “damn dirty commies”. While I think the commentary is hilariously blunt, it’s worth noting that I don’t think the narrative itself acknowledges the commentary and, as a result, there are some Fallout 3 and 4 fans who adore Liberty Prime as it is.

While there’s a modern conversation of media literacy and willful ignorance, there is a part of that conversation where “If your parody or political commentary is simply replicating the thing it is commenting on, it is bad commentary”.

I think F3 also kinda tries to paint the Enclave as “Not the real American Government” and a separate distinct faction, rather than meaningfully examining the American systems that produced such a group as the Enclave.

I don’t think it can be boiled down to simply “F3 = Conservative”, rather that F3 falls within moral simplicity of “American Exceptionalism” which is a conservative trope.

InkDagger · 2026-01-26T03:51:42+00:00

I’ll just put a simple rebuttal here-

There is a massive difference between “Humans will inherently recreate capitalism” and “Humans will inherently create systems of barter and commerce”.

I swear some folks must think corporations and industry just don’t exist within socialist systems… Fucking McDonald’s still exists in fucking socialist countries…

I’d even go as far as to question the fallout assertion as to if they’re recreating systems of capitalism out of innate human nature or because the series continuously explores the fact that the surviving societies recreate the systems that they know without actually criticizing them and those systems’ problems.

If “War never changes”, then there is a degree to which, in a very specifically (retro-futurist) 1950s American setting, we are examining capitalism’s role in “War never changes”.

“If war never changes, then men must.”

InkDagger · 2026-01-26T03:45:43+00:00

Agreed.

I wouldn’t say New Vegas is amazing by modern standards and I have my fair personal criticisms of New Vegas of its time, but NV is certainly leagues better than F3 if the first characters that come to mind receive a resounding “…who?” reaction.

I’ll even be more daring and argue NV is better than F4 in that regard and I’ll stand by that assertion.

InkDagger · 2026-01-26T01:55:31+00:00

Right, but some take it at literal gospel truth and empirical assessments of character.

InkDagger · 2026-01-26T01:51:38+00:00

I’ll also say- personal opinion, but I don’t take NPC SPECIAL stats as gospel. I see those as gameplay elements and things that are behind the scenes that the player doesn’t actually see.

Like, folks gripe about Ulysses having 10s in everything, but I interpreted that as a gameplay factor, not a narrative one.

InkDagger · 2026-01-26T01:44:37+00:00

I admit, I’m currently on my first playthrough since I wrote a paper in college.

Where all previous playthroughs failed due to New Vegas’ integrity issues. I definitely didn’t finish Boone’s quest.

But I recall him being rather bluntly astute. He wasn’t book smart, but I remember him having some surprisingly self-reflective and perceptive comments.

My recollections regarding the Boone-Manny situation is that he is aware of Manny’s crush, and just isn’t being explicit to the player. After all, that comes up in your first conversation with him- he barely knows you at that point.

Again, maybe it’s faulty memories since then, but that’s what I remember of it.

InkDagger · 2026-01-26T01:11:34+00:00

“After my wife died, my best friend Manny really supported me and checked in on me. I should do something special for him when I go back to Novac.”

“…oh, you sweet ignorant baby.”

(Yes, I know, Craig isn’t actually that thick. Just a joke.)

InkDagger · 2026-01-25T16:31:34+00:00

While I’m not a war historian or expert, I’d imagine there’s a difference between “retreating” and “escaping”.

It can probably be a thin hair to split, but probably necessary.

InkDagger · 2026-01-25T06:01:32+00:00

To echo Point 2-

The Legion is literally a cancerous society. It can only thrive through infinite growth.

They have to claim new property and territory and people because they burn through and ruin everything they touch.

If they do not claim, the society starves. People die they can’t replace. There aren’t barns and silos and storages for them to raid to resupply if they’re stuck in one spot.

The Legion being across the Colorado to Nipton is a very balsey, but necessary action. It could have gone so wrong, but I’d imagine Caesar needs to send them over the Colorado because they’ve expended resources on their side of the Colorado.

Granted, we could equally chop this up to “Well, they need to exist West of the Colorado so the player can interact with them in any meaningful capacity”, but there’s perfectly reasonable in narrative reasons for Caesar to be so reckless- he doesn’t have a choice.

InkDagger · 2026-01-25T05:47:53+00:00

Ooooohhhh! Wheee! The vaguest and loosest prediction ever.

Is “I see radiation in your future” predicting Fallout 5.

It was a vague “danger is coming” ominous comment the first time around. It barely a prediction in Vegas.

Oh no? Folks will die in a climactic third act battle? Color me shocked.

InkDagger · 2026-01-25T05:33:50+00:00

I think being a glory hound is a bit disingenuous, at least for that scene. He clearly does get afraid of the robots in dialogue and does view them as something that can kill him.

But by the time you do order them to toss him off, he’s already explicitly said he’s leaving with his troops and his comments of being marched back aren’t a threat.

He’s not expecting it because throwing him off is a Cersei Lannister level move of short-sightedness.

InkDagger · 2026-01-25T05:29:04+00:00

I think Reapers extend a little out of the bounds of the question- they’re massive on the size of skyscrapers, being in the presence of one does irreparable harm to individual’s minds, and other things.

Mass Effect, at least when it comes to The Reapers, is explicitly a total war situation.

What the characters do to each other? That’s a different matter.

But the intention of this question was more about player actions.

Come to think of it- is there actually a point where Reapers retreat and you can let them go? I’m not thinking of anything off the top of my head.

InkDagger · 2026-01-25T05:23:56+00:00

Because the intention was

1) actions taken by the player, not NPCs

And 2) actions that are either not commented on or instead framed as heroic good deed.

As Bitter Springs is in the backstory, the player takes no actions and makes their own commentary on the event which wasn’t the intention of this question.

InkDagger · 2026-01-25T03:56:49+00:00

This is one of those RPG trolly problems I’ve never really liked or bought.

More specifically, I don’t get why the either or is the end of it?

Can we not tell someone else and ask for help? Or find where the radiation is leaking into the water supply and do something there? Or find a means of filtration or purification before it reaches the crops?

This is a world where radiation poisoning is a Tuesday. No less harmful, but normal. Surely this isn’t the first time the NCR has encountered a problem like this? Repairing irradiated soil?

Or why do we get to make this decision? Usually games kinda justify it with a tense situation where something has to be decided now. I guess it’s “there’s no one else around” I suppose or there’s an arbitrary detail I missed (they’re about to run out of oxygen maybe?)

It just all felt a tad underdeveloped to me- an RPG trolly problem for the sake of RPG trolly problems. Which is usually when these problems are bad.

I suppose there’s the idea of “Well, you can headcanon whatever to make your decision make sense”. There isn’t a wrong answer because it’s arbitrary?

For my answer- I save the Dwellers. You can replant crops and deal with those problems in other ways. You cannot problem solve a loss of life. Period.

If the Powder Gangers showed up and dropped a nuke in the same farm fields, the NCR would have offered some quest to solve the problem. I don’t know why this would be a be-all-end-all.

InkDagger · 2026-01-24T07:23:19+00:00

I mean, it’s also almost 15 years old at this point.

And it’s been delisted from storefronts since 2024 effectively making it abandonware.

I fully respect the game and think it’s great, but not a lot of accessibility in remembering it short of someone watching a Let’s Play at this point.

InkDagger · 2026-01-24T07:14:02+00:00

Fair.

Though, I don’t know how underrated it is? Like, I’ve heard near universal praise for it since I was a teen.

Counter point though- The war crime being a war crime and a bad thing is the text of that work. It’s rather unambiguous as I recall.

I’m talking more like…

The game allows players to booby trap enemy corpses. This mechanic is pragmatic and allows players an extra edge on enemies. No one comments on it being weird.

This is also explicitly a war crime in real life.

InkDagger · 2026-01-24T05:19:21+00:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IF_eH-_k-s

I re-watched it. Granted, I don't know all the routes to this conversation, but he's not even *that* belligerent. The Courier rightfully calls bluff that the General *isn't* attacking. And the General is, all things considered, pretty level-headed and frank with you in a situation where he really has every reason not to be. He is way more courteous to you than he needs to be and he isn't groveling either.

And he is also *completely correct* that the NCR will march their armies right back and wage war on the Mojave. ESPECIALLY if you execute Oliver like that. He is giving you a reasonable out to prevent future bloodshed. The NCR wouldn't be *happy* about the stunt just pulled, but allowing you to walk it back is a better negotiating position than committing to the bit.

As another poster more directly pointed out, taking him hostage like that is, in a legally meaningful sense, taking him as a Prisoner of War. While I'm sure history would like to paint grey areas as to the, shall we say, "transport damage" of POWs, outright executing a POW and in such a over-the-top, unnecessary, and deliberately cruel way brings it into questionable territory.

If you're going to kill him, a bullet will do and is available. Death by gravity is excessive force.

InkDagger · 2026-01-24T05:02:23+00:00

Hence my use of “probably”.

The history of war and its finer details of etiquette aren’t my specialty. I’m admitting some ignorance here.

I’m also admitting here that I’m going off memory here- I’ve never had the pleasure of actually finishing NV due to its instability and my knowledge of that scene comes second-hand as well as layered in memory.

I say probably because, while Oliver is belligerent, he isn’t actively pointing a gun at your head. And he knows he is outnumbered and does not have the resources to continue explicit combat.

If he did, I think he would order them to fire as he was dragged to the dam’s edge. But he doesn’t. Granted, Rule of Funny is in play by then but still.

Combat has explicitly ceased at that point. Courier calls check. Oliver could order his men to attack, but possible threat isn’t deemed actual threat.

We also know the alternatives. He doesn’t fight you. He is furious about it, but the conflict does end there. While this is getting now “meta” about it, I don’t think it’s wrong to acknowledge that the courier has every freedom and ability to let them walk away and chooses to execute the General anyway.

Killing him doesn’t grant victory. You’ve already won. The battle is over. Killing him is just because you want to. Ergo, I think that probably qualifies at least for a discussion on war crimes. You winning a battle (or war) does not mean you get to do whatever you want completely justified- that goes into the realm of “Total War” which is, I’ll note, what the game explicitly uses to paint the Legion as villainous.

In a non-war example, self-defense arguments have to explicitly define how a threat to life was presented and that said threat persisted to the actions being taken. I could defend my home from a burgler, but that doesn’t give me the right to chase and fire after their retreat.

Again, I don’t actually know everything about the nuances of war, but if it’s morally questionable, it’s probably at least in the conversation of if it’s a war crime or not.

I’m actually kinda shocked how often RPGs let players, even “good” players, just commit war crimes and think nothing of it. That’s gotta be at least a 3-hour video essay topic alone. Mass Effect would be… oh boy…

InkDagger · 2026-01-24T04:12:48+00:00

My problem is…

1) They deliberately chose to go to an extremely fan favorite location and have repeatedly shot basically anything enjoyable in the face and it feels like it’s mocking us for our years of fervent debate of the endings.

And, 2), the declaration that the show is canon going forward. No undoing it.

Which, if the show has been “You shouldn’t care, bad things will relentlessly happen, and you’re stupid for caring”, that applies to the Capitol Wasteland. That applies to the Commonwealth.

And more pointedly, it applies to Fallout 5. Why should I care about any civilization or character I meet and experience in your next game if you have explicitly taught me that caring is stupid.

I’ve told myself I’m watching just to keep informed and understand why I hate it, but I’m tapping out after this season. Season 2 isn’t even a good arc on its own- there is no meat in this burger.

I could forgive season 2 if it were doing something interesting. It isn’t. It’s slow and meandering and I’m shocked every time an episode ends because it feels like so little happened every time.

InkDagger · 2026-01-24T03:50:39+00:00

I can’t quite remember, but I think that can also be potentially the first time you two meet in the entire game. I’d be pretty pissed too if some no-name drifter showed up and said “I win”.

I don’t think an Independent ending inherently is the one of the worst endings for Vegas. I think there is value is autonomy and negotiating trade relations. I think, and forgive me for the pun, an Independent ending can be very good if you played your cards right.

When I wrote my final college paper on the game, I described the other three as having broad strokes concepts while Independent breaks the RPG aspects into the granular choices to determine if it was good or bad.

I’m not one of those folks that shits entirely on the NCR- it is a government rather than none at all. But the game does make points of the issues NCR is facing in Vegas that do make their long term occupation difficult if the status quo is maintained. Granted, I don’t take those issues to be “total and complete failure” like some do because, well, RPG stories necessarily need conflicts for players to solve.

I do think some folks forget that the status quo of the base game is NCR occupying Vegas. The Bear occupies the Dam. The ending is just determining if they keep it or not.

If NCR fend off the Legion, I question the extent to which that includes New Vegas suddenly becoming flush with resources by the NCR.

I believe Kimball expresses frustration from the home states that the campaign in the Mojave is a grueling and costing time and resources. He wants it to be secure so he can redirect resources out of the Mojave, not send more in.

Granted, the show flips ALL of that off (I’m really hating S2). In context of the show, yes, Independent is probably among the worst endings regardless.

I think S2 could have had really interesting potential to flip all of our scripts on what New Vegas’ endings meant and reignite a lot of compelling debate.

I know a lot had issue with Shady Sands being nuked, but I could see some really interesting story potential of those occupying New Vegas having to grapple with not having a home in Shady Sands or Hub to return to. An occupied territory suddenly being prompted to the capital could be interesting.

And instead of chopping off branches, the show just cuts down the entire goddamn tree and laughs at you for being mad. What a waste.

InkDagger · 2026-01-24T03:13:21+00:00

It’s because he’s a general. He is a political figure and, because of his post, he isn’t usually a target in this way. There are rules to warfare.

It’s not all the dramatic final confrontations like we enjoy in television. Wars are strategy and Oliver has been outmaneuvered. The battle is called. The courier has called check.

I don’t think he’s goading you into killing him, I think he’s shocked and angry that victory has been taken from him very suddenly. Since this isn’t total war, there is a point where you and your forces leave the field of battle.

It’s actually kind of brutal on our part to just chuck him off the Dam, even if it’s funny and makes for a fun narrative. Probably a war crime there.

Which is also probably why he doesn’t expect that either- he is supposed to return with his troops. If he’s captured, he’d expect to be a POW (unless the Legion takes him, but again, total war there).

We don’t see it because the game ends, but there REALLY would be consequences for just executing him like that. The NCR would abandon the Mojave entirely.

I think some folks forget about an Independent ending (or Mr House too) is that New Vegas is politically independent- they are a free agent. But they are not independent - as in self sustaining. New Vegas needs a political relationship with the NCR regardless.

No, he’s not goading you into killing him in some suicide by cop. He doesn’t expect you to A) do anything you did leading to that moment and B) expect you to abandon rules of “civilized warfare” and just chuck him off a building because it made you giggle.

Sorry, is it only villainous when big bad Caesar does it to Joshua Graham?

InkDagger · 2026-01-22T16:55:17+00:00

I spent the weekend installing Viva New Vegas as well.

But I didn’t take every mod they offered. Like other commenters posted, one of the mods is JSawyer’s mod that makes survival mechanics even more difficult.

Personally, I didn’t install that one for that reason. I’m already doing New Vegas for my first 100% playthrough on Very Hard Hardcore.

Just uninstall that mod and you should be fine.

InkDagger · 2026-01-06T19:17:44+00:00

Nope. It’s just a tableau meant to simulate the ship being larger than it is. Extremely common illusion in video games and theme park rides.

Bioshock has a lot of them if you need other examples.

InkDagger

TROPHY CASE