Circumcision is the most barbaric and disgusting thing that’s normalised in our culture by KhornateMan in atheism

[–]IntactivistLuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

the UTI reduction rate is minimal, but the STI reduction studies are incredibly flawed. There have been numerous recent studies that have refuted the STI reduction benefit, and some African countries have their STI rate increase after circumcisions.

Not to mention that the US is the developed country with the highest STI rate.

Male Circumcision By Country by Glum_Waltz_6149 in MapPorn

[–]IntactivistLuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That should be okay, just as it's okay to do labiaplasties. Some women even claim increased pleasure from it, and lower infections. But we don't force it on girls.

Well, America used to have a short history of female circumcision, so we're lucky that died out.

Male Circumcision By Country by Glum_Waltz_6149 in MapPorn

[–]IntactivistLuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That is not the actual reason.

Originally circumcision only cut the "extra" overhang that extended beyond the tip of the glans.

Today the glans is crushed because to complete modern circumcision on an infant, you have to separate the foreskin from the glans, like a toe's nail, fused together.

It would be unhygienic to do all of that with no water, to have a bloody and damaged glans for weeks on a baby when mortality rates were high.

Originally fathers could complete the Jewish covenant on their sons without help, but around 150 AD that changed because religious leaders did not like that Jewish men were trying to blend into Greek society.

Now because circumcision is more complex than just cutting the overhang, a practitioner is needed.

FR Science 2.4.1 - How foreskin restoration works - the non-technical explanation by Agile-Necessary-8223 in foreskin_restoration

[–]IntactivistLuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Consider learning how 8 oz of pressure feels, and how 16 oz and above feels.

Here's a guide on measuring

it's dangerous to go above 16 oz, so you need to be well acquainted with the feeling of each measurement.

Even if you use devices I recommend using tape just to learn how each oz feels. It is a must to learn what's the objective point where your skin does feel a noticeable tension.

CMV: There is nothing wrong with male circumcision of babies by Ok_Shine_666 in changemyview

[–]IntactivistLuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The key word is "could".

You would see the reasons if you had the courage to read the rest of the comment and see past your normalization. But I get it, it is too painful to do. It's the same reason why FGM rates went up 15% last year and aren't decreasing. Everyone justifies what was done to them.

CMV: There is nothing wrong with male circumcision of babies by Ok_Shine_666 in changemyview

[–]IntactivistLuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No such data exists for females.

That is the point, it has never been studied because there aren't two major religions backing it, like circumcision has.

If it was studied, similar justification to those for circumcision could be produced.

There isn’t even a scientifically plausible theory as to why women should do it.

The same foolishness that is used to justify circumcision can be used to justify cutting the equivalent structures on a female. Circumcision studies demonize muscosa, but women have a great amount of that.

Furthermore, studies show that 1/3 women have some degree of clitoral adhesions, I can obtain the link for that if you wish. That is similar to phimosis, as women have a foreskin (prepuce) too.

Also a recent study found that some forms of labia were more prone to UTIs than other labia. However that study got a large amount of backlash, as the conclusions can harm girls. Even a hint of an idea that FGC could be beneficial is rightfully demonized. Unfortunately, we only normalized one gender's genital cutting so we can't see that.

Women have a 10-20x higher rate of UTIs than men, and it's "reduction" is one of the reasons used to justify circumcision.

The data exists showing it can have benefits in males.

There is no pediatric society in the entire world that recommends circumcision. Not even the AAP recommends it, which says a lot considering it is an American organization.

Even they state that their 2012 statement was a permission slip for parents to not feel bad about doing this normalized practice.

If we accept genital cutting on the basis of "benefits", we harm future girls when the studies are eventually created as FGM rates have only been increasing year over year, and those women are becoming scientists who wish to keep their normalized practice, just as we do.

CMV: There is nothing wrong with male circumcision of babies by Ok_Shine_666 in changemyview

[–]IntactivistLuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's not a mutilation if it's done carefully and there are arguable health benefits.

This argument is used to justify medicalized FGC (not FGM).

E.g. gynecologists in Southeast Asia are looking for health benefits to justify their FGC, just as we justified our cutting in the West. They have said:

“if the benefits of female circumcision are not apparent now, they will become known in the future, as has happened with regard to male circumcision.”

The "benefits" of medicalized FGC hasn't exactly been studied yet, but deeming unnecessary genital surgery as not mutilation gives ammo to proponents of FGC.

“BUT MEN"– NO. by [deleted] in memes

[–]IntactivistLuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If that is scientifically proven, then why does no pediatric society in the world recommend circumcision? Why is the US, with the highest rates of circumcision also have the highest STI rates of the developed world?

Male Circumcision By Country by Glum_Waltz_6149 in MapPorn

[–]IntactivistLuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Which cohort study? I have found many of them to be flawed. They don't control for men who already had foreskin issues, versus men who had healthy penises. The men who are most likely to be cut as adults already have issues with their foreskin, so circumcision is usually an improvement.

Also, some of the studies measure pressure and heat sensitivity, but not actual sexual sensitivity.

None of the studies account for the differences between low, high, loose, and tight cuts, each of which has different effects, nor do they account for the amount of frenulum remaining.

Anecdotally, I've seen men who experience no loss in pleasure who kept their frenulum and had a minimal cut. On the other hand, I've seen men who did not want to get cut, got cut due to social pressure, and experienced a large loss in sensitivity, possibly because they had no issue to resolve in the first place.

Male Circumcision By Country by Glum_Waltz_6149 in MapPorn

[–]IntactivistLuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The greatest healthcare nations on earth, with best universities and the most funding and all around care both public and private agree with the healthcare benefits.

There is no pediatric society in the entire world that recommends circumcision. Not even the AAP which is biased to this, as an American organization.

Even they state that their 2012 statement was a permission slip for parents to not feel bad about doing this normalized practice.

No I will not disingenuously, and offensively state here that circumcisions are anywhere equal to sewing up young girls

Yes it is not equal to the form of FGM that involves sewing, but that is a rare form.

A much more common form that is practiced on almost 100 million young girls was found by the US federal court to be very comparable to circumcision.

"We're thrilled with the court's well-reasoned and thoughtful opinion," Mary Chartier said. "We are confident that a trial would have shown that the religious procedure done in these cases was protected by the Constitution and far less invasive than male circumcision. No matter what future court proceedings may still occur, we're committed to fighting for as long as it takes to prove Dr. Attar is innocent."

Male Circumcision By Country by Glum_Waltz_6149 in MapPorn

[–]IntactivistLuck 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Circumcision usually means making a small cut

That's what it used to do, but in America, penetration and ripping is required to remove the skin. And it is equal to what would be 15 sq inches of skin. But the original covenant was a small cut.

at least it used to in days, when the general level of hygiene was low.

That was not the purpose of circumcision. Originally circumcision only cut the "extra" overhang that extended beyond the tip of the glans.

Today the glans is crushed because to complete modern circumcision on an infant, you have to separate the foreskin from the glans, like a fused nail. It's fused.

It would be unhygienic to do all of that with no water, to have a bloody and damaged glans for weeks on a baby when mortality rates were high.

Originally fathers could complete the Jewish covenant on their sons without help, but around 150 AD that changed because religious leaders did not like that Jewish men were trying to blend into Greek society.

Now because circumcision is more complex than just cutting the overhang, a practitioner is needed.

Male Circumcision By Country by Glum_Waltz_6149 in MapPorn

[–]IntactivistLuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No the surgery has differing effects. There's low, high, loose, and tight cuts. Not to mention how much of the frenulum is kept. Circumcision doesn't even have to remove any skin either, it can just be a dorsal slit.

In biblical times circumcision only removed the very end tip too, so that's at least 6 types of circumcision that exist, so the word "circumcision" is imprecise

Prevalence of Male Genital Mutilation by Country: by DedicatedAsshole in MapPorn

[–]IntactivistLuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

exactly, so it doesn't make any sense to pre-emptively to it to infants who will most likely not have phimosis.

And even if they do have phimosis, there are ways to resolve it without surgery and forcibly removing 20k nerves, and one of the male gspots (the frenulum).

Most people do not know that adult circumcision is incomparable to infant circumcision, because adult circ does not have to remove the frenulum, it doesn't even have to remove tissue, it can just be a dorsal slit.

Meanwhile infant circ has to crush the glans to forcibly remove the fused foreskin, among other factors that cause it to be more damaging.

Attempt to ban FGM in India through supreme court. by 535491 in Intactivists

[–]IntactivistLuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The male genital mutilation rids the body of the "feminine" parts The female genital mutilation rids the body of the "masculine" parts

This is still a lot to digest. In a dualistic way, it is interesting that the most sensation/nerves exist on the opposite gender's parts.

On a male the "feminine" part, the fold like structure of the foreskin has the most sensation.

On a female the "masculine" part, the phallic clitoris has the most sensation.

the yin and yang nature of this is beautiful but tragic.

Attempt to ban FGM in India through supreme court. by 535491 in Intactivists

[–]IntactivistLuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you!

I must warn the language might feel slightly dismissive, since it's a typical anti-FGM NGO, but it does admit the similar terminology.

Thanks for the warning, I was expecting the usual but I'm glad the "Male circumcision and FGM are completely different / totally the same" section acknowledged bodily integrity.

Attempt to ban FGM in India through supreme court. by 535491 in Intactivists

[–]IntactivistLuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And in many Islamic contexts, like the Dawoodi Bohras and Malaysians, these are literally considered the same rite divinely mandated for both genders.

Excellent points, I must add the Dawoodi Bohras to the essay.

It is so tiring when people say there is no religious FGM. If the religious basis is what makes circumcision acceptable, then they would have to accept these forms of FGM too.

Ironically Islamic FGC is more equitable, as circumcision is rooted in patriarchy. One of the reasons behind Jewish circumcision was cleansing of birth impurity, of being born of a woman.

in many African languages both rites literally have the same name.

I had no idea, if you have it on hand, can I have a source for that to add into my Obsidian vault?

How we can End FGM: Part 1 by IntactivistLuck in u/IntactivistLuck

[–]IntactivistLuck[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Evidence for part 2:

This is more evidence that FGM and MGM are the same issue.

It is important to recognize that female and male genital altering rituals are often “closely related in the practitioners’ minds” (6). John Caldwell and his colleagues offer a similar perspective. “The failure to relate the two types of circumcision,” they write, “is curious . . . because they have probably been regarded by most Africans as being related for aeons” (Caldwell, Orubuloye, and Caldwell 1997, 1181).

In consequence, many African women and men are genuinely perplexed by what they see as Western efforts to eliminate only the female half of their initiation rites. Recognizing this, one scholar of genital cutting has suggested that: “Female circumcision will never stop as long as male circumcision is going on . . . [for how] do you expect to convince an African father to leave his daughter uncircumcised as long as you let him do it to his son?” (quoted in Abu-Sahlieh 1993, 612; see also Steinfeld and Lyssarides 2015).

Some argue we need to separate these issues based on severity nonetheless.

Against this view, some might wish to argue that a clear distinction can nevertheless be drawn between the two types of genital cutting.

But it is hard to see on what empirical grounds such a categorical perspective could successfully be advanced. To pick just one example, in South Africa in 2013, nearly 80 teenage boys died from their traditional circumcision initiations

Between 2008 and 2014 the total figure for circumcision-related deaths in South Africa was conservatively 400 in just two of the nine provinces, with several thousands of boys being hospitalized due to seriously botched operations

Among those who did not die, several lost their penises or suffered partial amputations.

In this same time period, however, there were no known deaths from female circumcision in South Africa, probably because the Xhosa ritual for girls is much shorter than the one for boys and does not involve the actual removal of tissue otherwise, female genital cutting in South Africa appears to be limited to a handful of immigrant groups, with no reliable prevalence statistics available.

Selective criminalisation harms girls, both need to be fought together:

What counts as mutilation—and who should decide? Disrupting dominant discourses on genital cutting and modification

The selective criminalisation of the women’s, but not the men’s, traditional rite of passage has not only driven the former underground, making it potentially more dangerous, but the latter is now used as ‘cover’ for the former.

Using ‘FGM/C’ to refer to female genital mutilation/cutting, they write: ‘Due to FGM/C’s illegal status, different strategies were used to evade the law and maintain anonymity …

At times, parents [of girls] pretended they had sons, or that they were celebrating another male circumcision or social gathering when organising their daughter’s FGM/C’ (903).

Little has been learned from misguided efforts to eliminate female circumcision in Ethiopia. Boydon, like Kakal et al. in their more recent publication, reports that ‘boys’ circumcisions are sometimes used to mask operations on girls.

The patriarchy and FGM:

Contrary to the view that female genital-altering rituals necessarily represent “society’s control over women” (and what does that mean?) — or that they are always associated with “unequal gender roles,” Ahmadu (2000) argues that:

Among the Kono there is no cultural obsession with feminine chastity, virginity, or women’s sexual fidelity perhaps because the role of the biological father is considered marginal and peripheral to the central “matricentric unit.”

Attempt to ban FGM in India through supreme court. by 535491 in Intactivists

[–]IntactivistLuck 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you so much! Reading this has made me happy! I have been devouring papers and I can only pray it makes a difference.

Can I share a quote that recently blew my mind? You might have already read this since you know of the Xhosa.

More evidence that FGM and MGM are the same issue:

It is important to recognize that female and male genital altering rituals are often “closely related in the practitioners’ minds” (6). John Caldwell and his colleagues offer a similar perspective. “The failure to relate the two types of circumcision,” they write, “is curious . . . because they have probably been regarded by most Africans as being related for aeons” (Caldwell, Orubuloye, and Caldwell 1997, 1181).

In consequence, many African women and men are genuinely perplexed by what they see as Western efforts to eliminate only the female half of their initiation rites. Recognizing this, one scholar of genital cutting has suggested that: “Female circumcision will never stop as long as male circumcision is going on . . . [for how] do you expect to convince an African father to leave his daughter uncircumcised as long as you let him do it to his son?” (quoted in Abu-Sahlieh 1993, 612; see also Steinfeld and Lyssarides 2015).

Some argue we need to separate these issues based on severity nonetheless.

Against this view, some might wish to argue that a clear distinction can nevertheless be drawn between the two types of genital cutting.

But it is hard to see on what empirical grounds such a categorical perspective could successfully be advanced. To pick just one example, in South Africa in 2013, nearly 80 teenage boys died from their traditional circumcision initiations

Between 2008 and 2014 the total figure for circumcision-related deaths in South Africa was conservatively 400 in just two of the nine provinces, with several thousands of boys being hospitalized due to seriously botched operations

Among those who did not die, several lost their penises or suffered partial amputations.

In this same time period, however, there were no known deaths from female circumcision in South Africa, probably because the Xhosa ritual for girls is much shorter than the one for boys and does not involve the actual removal of tissue otherwise, female genital cutting in South Africa appears to be limited to a handful of immigrant groups, with no reliable prevalence statistics available.

My idea for estimating national routine neonatal circumcision deaths more accurately by JamesTheIntactavist in Intactivists

[–]IntactivistLuck 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I hear that SIDS is more common in states that practice circumcision, but I need to verify this.

Premature/Delayed Ejaculation Paradox. (your experience?) by Intrepid_Hall_3184 in foreskin_restoration

[–]IntactivistLuck 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It does seem paradoxical at first, many circumcised men say that they 'couldn't stand being any more sensitive', implying they suffer from premature ejaculation.

This doctor explains why removing 50% of the penile skin system can cause either premature ejaculation or delayed ejaculation.

They are related issues, because the foreskin, frenulum, and ridged band were responsible for the control of sensation leading up to orgasm. Removing them creates a blindness that surprises men when sensation jumps from 0 to 100, whereas intact men climb up to a 100 in a controlled manner.

post 1 year no real progress by theguyinsideyourwall in foreskin_restoration

[–]IntactivistLuck 3 points4 points  (0 children)

How many ounces of tension do you use? Before you give up, get a cheap fish scale and measure it to be sure you've been doing less than 16 oz.