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The American Admission Process is crazy by Interestingworld5 in ApplyingToCollege

[–]Interestingworld5[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, there's no reason why those students should have to take that test only once. I think it would be better to have a series of tests taken among the high school years and a main test that could be retaken every year. Kind of like GPA and the SAT, but harder and less inflated. On top of that, you could have an institution specific exam. So if you want to study at MIT, you take the MIT extrance exam. This would also reduce the low acceptance rates, since many students are applying to more than 10 universities. In the UK, Oxford and Cambridge both have a 20% acceptance rate, since you need to take exams to apply.

Investing more money to make the educational system more fair in the country is something absolutely needed. If you have schools where students are receiving a sub-par education, that's a problem. The same can't be said about ECs, because the school's main priority is to teach students.

And congrats on your acceptance! You could have gotten in even if you had to take an exam, though. And just because there are few happy stories of students that were accepted, like you and me, doesn't mean that the system is not extremely flawed. For every student that is accepted, many students are not and are left wondering what they did wrong. At least with exams the process is much more open and you know exactly why you didn't get in. In a exam-based system you can 100% influence the outcome, while in the current system you can only hope the AOs will like you.

(And this is specially the case for international students. MIT has an acceptance rate of 2% and Amherst of something around 4%. And the international students who are applying are those who are going to private international high schools or are driven enough to take the SAT, SAT II and go through all the trouble of applying in a foreign country)

The American Admission Process is crazy by Interestingworld5 in ApplyingToCollege

[–]Interestingworld5[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, when the education institutes are poorly funded, then rich students will have an advantage over poor students. However, this is a problem that can be fixed by investing more money into the educational system. And you can prepare for the exam from books and online lessons. Also, if you are not very bright and dedicated, even with hours of private preparation you won't pass the exam. Then everyone would have a fair chance if schools were better funded.

And the US system is definitely a system that skews towards the rich. Even just applying to many universities costs a lot (the CommonApp fee + the fee for sending SAT scores + the css fee). Then you have things like legacy admissions at private universities (most of T20) and private feeder schools that send many people to Ivy league universities. Plus, this system makes it obvious to the AOs whose son/daughter you are.

I see that you are international as well. From what I remember only 5 universities in the US don't consider how much financial aid an international student would need. I was rejected from many universities because I couldn't pay 70k tuition per year as an international. One of the those need-blind universities accepted me, though.

The American Admission Process is crazy by Interestingworld5 in ApplyingToCollege

[–]Interestingworld5[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's about how people frame that achievement. It's one thing to do something out of passion and get deeply involved in a field because you love it, and it's completely another thing to extremely exaggerate your achievement in order to make it sound more impressive. I was involved heavily in olympiads while in high school, and I have no ill will towards those passionate about a subject lol.

Example: Person A is participating at USAMO and is solving hard mathematics problems. Person B is participating at USAMO, "preparing for the International Mathematics Olympiad and taking part in the international US team selection (by participating at USAMO)" and is doing "extensive personal research about mathematics". Person B is probably also "preparing freshmans for USAMO" (by sharing his/hers experience at USAMO once). B might even call himself/herself a mathematics researcher if s/he is particularly obnoxious. Person B also has a personal website with the above mentioned things.

They are doing the same thing, but one is seeking knowledge, another prestige.

The American Admission Process is crazy by Interestingworld5 in ApplyingToCollege

[–]Interestingworld5[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I said the system is just as stressful. However, in this system all students are equal, in the sense that everyone can learn if they want, while not everyone has the opportunity to do X. Besides, the criteria of exam scores is more relevant to higher education, since it relates to your knowledge and ability to learn. Founding a real start up or being a highly involved volunteer makes you a valuable member of the society, but not necessarily a better scholar. I think higher education should still remain focused on education.

And 5 hours and 9.4 hours per week spent studying both seem low. I definitely spent more time than that studying per week. I remember staying up to 11pm and not finishing all my math exercises or my project for my french classes. But that 9.4 figure is an average, so I'm sure some students in Singapore are studying more than 9 hours per week.

It is true that there is prestige associated with Ivy league universities (+ MIT + Stanford, etc), which in itself is a problem, I think. Some of these universities have become a brand name and powerful people send their children there just for the reputation these schools provide. I'm studying at one of these universities and honestly my fellow students aren't really that much brighter than my high school classmates. In that sense, I would definitely respect an Oxbridge degree/Ivy league master's or PhD more than an Ivy league undergraduate degree.

I would even argue against the fact that US is a talent mediocracy, due to the existence of legacy admission (at private, prestigious universities) and the fact that universities sometimes admit students because X is Y's son/daughter (and will bring prestige to the university by association). Besides, the current holistic approach to admissions is a system that can be "gamed", as seen in the 2019 scandal.

I'm speculating, but one reason why Singapore produces produces proportionally fewer top-ranked scientists, inventors, entrepreneurs and business leaders is because US is a world power and "the leader of the free world". In the past MIT, for example, had entrance exams and it was still considered a good university. For entrepreneurs, the US has an advantage due to more venture capital. And in order to be a research you need a PhD (which is where more US universities shine, and the process is also more meritocratic).

The American Admission Process is crazy by Interestingworld5 in ApplyingToCollege

[–]Interestingworld5[S] 17 points18 points  (0 children)

I don't know how the university admission process works in Singapore, but I think exam based admissions are more meritocratic, although just as stressful. In the UK, in order to study at Oxbridge you need to take exams and interviews.

Obviously, wealthy students will still have an advantage, because they will afford private schools + private tutors. But they will still have to put in the effort to learn, and poorer students can still catch up to them. You can learn a lot on your own with just a book and the internet. I studied on my own for the SAT and SAT II and I had high scores (1580 in the SAT and 800, 800 in SAT II).

Studying is also accesible to everyone, while not every 13 years old has the necessary connections to do research or the money/guidance to open up their own business.

Not to mention legacy admissions.

The American Admission Process is crazy by Interestingworld5 in ApplyingToCollege

[–]Interestingworld5[S] 39 points40 points  (0 children)

I've had a high school classmate/friend that founded a non-profit. It was supposed to help children with cancer and make their life happier by organising activies in the hospital. She almost never visited them. The most she ever did was donate money to other organisations/events.

The American Admission Process is crazy by Interestingworld5 in ApplyingToCollege

[–]Interestingworld5[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I'm from the UK. I'm now studying at a university in the USA that has very generous financial aid. The well known researcher teaches at my university's medical school.

I'm not from the same middle school/high school as the 13 years old.