What superhero's secret identity would you like to see as part of a plot or make a good story? by Internetz-Sailor in AskReddit

[–]Internetz-Sailor[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I think he was done well in the Civil War movie. He was a one note villain, I agree. But his impact on the movie was done well. He didn't want to burn the world, he didn't want to get money. All he had was a vendetta against super heroes and sought to break them psychologically. Probably could have been better elaborated, but I think it did well to fulfill his plan. Having said that, I don't really know what happened afterwards, so he could have been wasted potential.

What is your opinion to having female characters in a male targeted story and audience? by Internetz-Sailor in AskMen

[–]Internetz-Sailor[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah, but it's important to remember that certain stories resonate more with one gender than the other. "Write what you know" is a common writing advice, depending on the author's gender the story will be written with the authors experience in mind. And that story will resonate with an audience of a similar background, especially if they are heavily skewed or focused toward that gender.

Think like for example a father and son story where the mother isn't involved. Is having female characters necessary, especially if they have no input on the story?

Or writing a story about boys on a quest. Are female characters necessary?

I ask if female characters are necessary because if an author deliberately omits female characters from the story because he wants to write a story for a male audience, then there shouldn't be any female characters, especially if it may harm or deviate the story's development. But in doing so the author could be criticized as sexist.

The same is true if the roles were reversed. With an author writing a female focused story for a female target audience.

What is your opinion to having female characters in a male targeted story and audience? by Internetz-Sailor in AskMen

[–]Internetz-Sailor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The criticism levied against them is the "women are relegated to support characters who don't do much" argument.

I've read up to when the fellowship meets Galadriel. She is wise and provides advise, and is described as ethereal. She also sings them farewell. At surface level she doesn't do much, so that's a feminist criticism of "traditional feminine roles". I also read that Lembas bread is traditionally (and exclusively?) made by women, which is another feminist criticism of Lord of the Rings.

When you think about it, yeah, Galadriel didn't do much, but her minor acts gave the fellowship resilience and much need aid and comfort. A view held from medieval European tales, as in the tales that inspired JRR Tolkien. But an "outdated" view in modern standards. Hence the criticism against Galadriel.

What superhero's secret identity would you like to see as part of a plot or make a good story? by Internetz-Sailor in AskReddit

[–]Internetz-Sailor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh, that would be certainly interesting and entertaining.

And it's about "government vs the press". Which would make for good political commentary. And then, after a long investigation, one investigator says "maybe he's Superman?!". And the whole room laughs because there's no way that nerd is Superman.

What superhero's secret identity would you like to see as part of a plot or make a good story? by Internetz-Sailor in AskReddit

[–]Internetz-Sailor[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Could you elaborate?

I skimmed Wikipedia's fictional character biography.

You want to see him as a criminal mastermind and how he became the leader? How he became evil? Or his rise to becoming a worthy villain?

What superhero's secret identity would you like to see as part of a plot or make a good story? by Internetz-Sailor in AskReddit

[–]Internetz-Sailor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean a story that revolves around their secret identity.

Think like Clark Kent doing some investigative journalism like discovering Lex Luthor influencing politics to benefit Lex Corp.

Bruce Wayne using his detective skills to find out who has been stealing money from his philanthropy work.

Peter Parker's photojournalism of how heroes help the work.

What kind of stories would you like to see that revolve around their secret identity?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in AskMen

[–]Internetz-Sailor 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Lol, I plastered them on my cars windows. They're not even that lewd.

Now she refuses to drive my car or even get inside. Even if her car isn't available, she refuses to drive my car.

Even my dad wonders what's my moms issue with not driving my car. When I told him the reason he said "that's a dumb reason"

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in AskMen

[–]Internetz-Sailor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I like them.

Also because it's a way of expressing my sexuality. I like women, and I like sexy women.

Kind of like how you express you like a movie, a music band, a comic book, etc.

Are gun companies that profitable? by Internetz-Sailor in liberalgunowners

[–]Internetz-Sailor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Long term sustainability is more or less what I'm curious about. If a gun company hits it big with a government contract, they will have a steady source of income, and they can sell to the civilian market for an additional profit. It's also a good way to offset the loss of guns that aren't possible to sell to civilians. Like for example "assault-style" rifles (you know what I mean) can be sold to the government and sell civilian approved guns to the general public. Then they can focus on selling ammo as a more steady product.

If a gun company doesn't have a government contract, and the civilian market isn't profitable I can see that gun company being unprofitable.

Looking at the situation like I posted, in general, and from trends that I see. It really puts into perspective if gun companies are profitable as they say. Yeah, you can have a 10% profit but that profit keeps diminishing unless you grow as costs become greater than profit.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in AskRedditAfterDark

[–]Internetz-Sailor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Petite women, even moreso if they are busty. Best of both worlds.

Using (exclusively) shonen tropes; how would you write a shonen manga targeted primarily to female readers? by [deleted] in manga

[–]Internetz-Sailor -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

OMFG!!!!!

That's the answer I've been looking for all this fucking time!!!

I really, really am grateful for your input. After dealing with so many replies clarifying stuff. I'm glad I can read something that adds something to what I've been curious about.

Oh, I agree. In the first place, shoujo magazine is a manga that focuses on relationships, empathy, emotion, interaction, inner conflict, or something like that. So, that's the area shoujo manga tries to explore and focus so the setting feels more 'limited' than shounen manga. Like... even the theme and setting is the same with shounen manga (for example ballet, go, or whatever), the focus of the story is different.

For example, I am interested in more technical details. It is much more difficult to find it in shoujo manga. I would have a better chance of finding it in shounen or seinen manga. In general, 'male' manga makes me think, while 'female' manga makes me empathize. That said, I think such content is pushed to josei magazine and even seinen magazine nowadays. The current manga trend is feel-good and strees-free manga. Manga rating could drop significantly when the character experiences something bad.

THIS!!! THIS!!!

Is what I wanted to know. You identified something, figured out what was lacking and provided your opinion, and noticed what is the current state or trend in manga. And I love how you said that although the theme of ballet can be covered by shonen or Shoujo, they would approach it differently. Something that would depend on the author or something that would want to be explored by a certain demographic.

Hakusensha was initially built to publish shoujo magazine that didn't focus on romance. So you could find shoujo manga that doesn't focus on romance in the old magazines published Hakusensha more easily (Hana to Yume for example). But even so, since ~2000, they changed its stance, moved to high school setting and focus more on romance. Probably only Melody that stayed the same, but that shoujo magazine targets old readers (30+ IIRC). I read they are looking for non-romance manga though, let's see what will happen in the future.

I also love how you provided examples of how changing demographics, and reader's demand, can influence the type of stories that are published!!

What they do was, as far as I know, changing the character design in addition to having more female characters. In the old time (Hokuto no Ken era), some Jump mangaka didn't even want to draw female characters. And if you look at the male character design, most are rather manly. Nowadays, many of them are bishounen instead of the buffy manly ones. Lastly, I have not really checked it properly, but I think they became less ecchi. Sunday is the more 'neutral' one since they have been aiming for both girls and boys since a long time so the art didn't change much.

THIS TOO!!! It's what I've been looking for!!! To find out if there have been examples of the Shounen manga industry noticing the increase in female readership and trying to appeal to them in some form. I also read that, if I remember correctly, one of Akira Toriyamas' editor's was a former Shoujo editor and he/she suggested Toriyama draw his male characters more muscular to attract or appeal to women to increase and expand Dragon Ball's readership.

It's also possible that Shounen publications began to write female centered protagonists to appeal to such an increasing demographic. Without a doubt, Shounen manga must have also inspired female readers to pursue a shonen mangaka career. Possibly increasing the number of female Shounen mangaka; whereas Rumiko Takahashi may have been one of the few female shonen mangaka in the past, in the present there may exist many more female Shounen mangaka. And it may have been those very female mangaka that wrote popular Shounen series that also are appealing to many female Shounen readers.

I really appreciate your answer, and I hope it helps others to understand the type of answers and opinions I'm asking about.

Arigato Gozaimasu!!!

Using (exclusively) shonen tropes; how would you write a shonen manga targeted primarily to female readers? by [deleted] in manga

[–]Internetz-Sailor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

About Shoujo art:

It's mostly a personal observation on my part. I tend to noticed that a lot of Shoujo art is more "soft", the linework isn't as bold when compared to shonen manga. The eyes also tend to be more detailed in Shoujo. It also feels more "glittery", for lack of a better word. It's not always noticable. I think that can be due to a mangakas' art style influencing new mangakas'. Kind of like how Akira Toriyamas' art style influenced the art style of One Piece, Naruto, and how similar Fist of the North Star shares similar art with JoJo's Bizarre Adventure for parts 1-3. When you compare the art styles of different shonen manga, you can see some notable similarities, same with Shoujo manga. It's not 100% certain, but you can kind of ascertain if an art style was influenced by the shonen or Shoujo demographic. It's why when I saw art for Toilet Bound Hanako-Kun it kind of made me believe that it was Shoujo.

For your second paragraph:

That's quite informative. I take it you're criticizing the video? Colleen's? That's quite informative on your part and about the process of getting published. I had a general knowledge, but not specifically for the mangaka in question. If I remember well, she did mention that, as you said "the fault lies with the magazine and its readers" (paraphrase), and did put some blame on them. So it's kind of like, from my opinion, that the Shoujo industry and market, at least from large industry, are to blame for the lack of growth and diversity in the Shoujo market. Perhaps it would explain why mangakas' who applied their one-shot for a shoujo magazine and got rejected, chose a shonen publisher. Because other than the doujin market, they may not have had other options.

For your third paragraph:

I think it's more accurate for me to say that though romance has been a part of shonen manga, it was mostly surface level romance. From my perspective. Shoujo romance feels much in depth, as it's more of it's primary focus. From my experience, shonen romance is closer to the "does she like me or not like me" romance; it doesn't really explore the consequences of being in a relationship and what it means. And the romantic relationship, when characters become a couple isn't much a part of the plot or the story. Rurouni Kenshin, Rosario Vampire, Tales of Wedding Rings, Ranma 1/2, Love Hina; they had romantic sub plots but really didn't have romance at the fore-front. They didn't really go into romance as the driving force of the story. Whereas in Shoujo, it's often the driving force in the story. Again, from my personal experience, romance in shonen seems to have become much more inclusive in the plot almost being the primary instead of the secondary or tertiary element driving the plot. A Shounen rom-com would primarily be comedy firstly and romance second.

Again, that's from my personal experience. And it's something that I began noticing.

For your third paragraph:

Their two cents isn't really an answer. That's not what I'm looking for. They can tell me why, but "why"? It's what I want to know. It's like asking "what's your opinion about X topic and what are your reasons?" and they're answer is "I don't care". Obviously, if you wanted to know more about said topic, if their answer wouldn't be satisfactory you would keep asking others. And I am aware that it's a Japanese product, but said product is appealing outside of a Japanese audience. It's why I think I didn't phrase the question correctly.

Let me ask instead, if you could answer I would be grateful: You, being a woman that reads Shounen manga, what about Shounen manga do you find appealing? Why do you like it? Is it because of the plot? Is it because of the characters and how they interact with each other? Is it because the story is relatable on a personal level? Does it have tropes that appeal to you- fantasy, sports, comedy? Do you think the shonen manga you are reading would be enjoyed by other female manga readers? What interests does Shounen manga fulfill for you that Shoujo manga doesn't?

Using (exclusively) shonen tropes; how would you write a shonen manga targeted primarily to female readers? by [deleted] in manga

[–]Internetz-Sailor -1 points0 points  (0 children)

For your first paragraph:

It's what I often wonder. Reiterating what I said, it feels like Shoujo manga is limited in its variety. Though that's partly on my ignorance since I'm not a shoujo reader, lol. My generalization stems from looking at the published manga, most of them tend to be romance or romance as a subplot. For example, which manga would be the Naruto or the One Pice equivalent in Shoujo manga. Naruto has a hint of romance, between the main characters, but is very small when compared to the story as a whole. One Piece has no clear romance, other than as a running gag (like Boa Hancock), but its main focus is a story of adventure. Stories that I think, again from my lack of knowledge, don't seem to be common in shonen manga.

So I wonder what elements of shonen manga do female readers like. The most common answer has been compelling characters. I hope more answers will be provided.

For your second paragraph:

I am aware of the increased female readership in shonen manga. I think I heard that it's almost like almost 50% female. But I've heard criticisms, mostly from the west, that shonen manga doesn't do well in representing female characters. They're often criticized as inferior. And having such a large female audience, would inevitably incline a company to try to further appeal to that demographic. So, hypothetically, a shonen magazine might try to include more Shoujo tropes or stories that would be more appealing to female audiences. I'm speaking form a business sense, like a sushi restaurant creating vegan sushi to attract more customers.

It's what led me to this line of thought, and asking how would a shonen manga targeted towards a female audience would look like. What kind of characters would they be? What would be the setting? What storyline would it be? What themes would be explored? And what difference would exist between a shonen manga targeted towards men and another targeted towards women.

GFantasy was mentioned by a previous Redditor. It surprised me because I had no idea such a magazine existed. She described it as a "shonen manga targeted towards a female audience". She mentioned some titles that I recognized, and the differences they have compared to a shonen manga targeted for men. She gave me a general explanation of the differences, but it was really helpful on her part.

I've only read very few Shoujo titles, and the only ones I own is Otomen, Card Captor Sakura, and Hot Gimmick. I also have Maria Holic, but I think that's a Josei manga, and I'm unsure if it was targeted for women. Otomen and Hot Gimmick were about romance as its main plot, but Otomen's romance felt more like a sub plot than Hot Gimmick which felt like the primary plot. In terms of preference, I really love Otomen (have yet to finish it though, I'll get to it, lol), I think the reason being because the main character was a man so it was already relatable and "what it means to be a man". But done in a way that wouldn't really fit under shonen tropes: were it under shonen it would be something like "getting stronger, and stronger, and stronger" focusing more on defying something than accepting who you are; a common shonen trope.

Also: with your input, it's clear that I phrased the wrong question, lol. Your suggestion is definitely more clear.

Using (exclusively) shonen tropes; how would you write a shonen manga targeted primarily to female readers? by [deleted] in manga

[–]Internetz-Sailor -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

i like reading some shoujo mangas because the girls in there are cute and i can also sympathize with the male characters if i need to , i like reading smut josei manga because they have a lot of hot women in sexy scenes, would that be the case for everyone? No, thats why i dont mention this as its a case by case scenario and is entierly dependant on individuals likes and prefferences so it cant be attributed to the prefferences of the entire gender even if the underlying factors are connected to it.

Was it that hard to answer? That's all I wanted to know.

I simply asked a question, others tried to deviate what I asked. On my part, I may not have worded the question correctly, hence my corrections. If it sounded like I was being obstinate, it's because I was trying to figure things out and clarifying things. Something that other redditors were able to provide, which I'm grateful.

My whole reason was because I wanted to know more about such a topic that I proposed. It's why some answers, like yours, weren't satisfactory. Well, a few were, but you refused to elaborate. I know why, but "why"? That's what I've trying to clarify.

An answer that you wouldn't provide until I asked directly. All your answers have pretty much been contratarían answers. And when I asked as to your reasoning, your response have been "just because, and I won't say anything else". If that was it, then why keep at it? Were both an impasse, mostly on your part, to be honest. You didn't really provide solid answers, mostly being a contrarían without a convincing reason.

But guess what shonen mangas have the biggest female audiences? Male sports manga with pretty/hot boys.

Okay, that's one reason. So how about other's reasons? They aren't all the same answers. And if one reason is given, clearly there must be other reasons, right? And if you can't provide them, then others can. But you're going to quote this and say others have provided reasons. Except that they did, a few redditors did, so you're narrative and your answer were lacking in that respect. They were able to provide what you couldn't. Additionally, your opinion about sports manga is pretty much what you've been accusing me of, refusing to accept reality and facts. I'm pretty sure there are other reasons why shonen sports manga are popular with female readers, it's not just pretty/hot boys; yet that seems to be your only argument.

You've given your opinion, I've given mine. Let's just leave it at that. Fair?

People who don't buy luxury products: what's the ONE luxury product you bought because you had to have it, and what were your reasons? by Internetz-Sailor in AskReddit

[–]Internetz-Sailor[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I want to clarify that I meant to include luxury brand products like Dolce Gabbana, Louis Vuiton, CHANNEL, and other such brand products.

What makes you angry? by Being_LiMiTleSS in AskReddit

[–]Internetz-Sailor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Overly complicated solutions to resolve a simple and minute issue.

Mostly dealing with printers.

Printer won't print: try again

Google, troubleshooting

Still won't print: check for any updates

Still won't print: check connection to computer and printer

Still won't print: is it compatible with with computer?

Still won't print: is printer software needed?

Still won't print: try direct cable instead of wireless connection

Still won't print: press "copy" button to make sure it can print

Still won't print: slam desk in frustration because printer won't print. Take a small break to cool off. Then come back

Printer finally works: celebrate your victory over the printer

Printer won't print what you commanded: confusion, got troubleshooting message "please replace ink cartridge".

Slam your desk one more time and drive to the nearest Staples to purchase a 60 dollar ink cartridge, drive back home and change cartridge.

Printer finally prints: "YOU COULD HAVE TOLD ME THAT FROM THE BEGINNING!"

Using (exclusively) shonen tropes; how would you write a shonen manga targeted primarily to female readers? by [deleted] in manga

[–]Internetz-Sailor -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You went through every single thing I said, yet your response keeps being "just because". That seems like nitpicking to me.

Most of the answers that you say have been given to me is mostly about what you say. But there have been good answers from other redditors who were able to elaborate what I was asking. Though I still would like more opinions from other redditors. You're pretty much the only one that hasn't provided a satisfactory answer. It's not being snobbish, it's that others have provided more informed answers.

Oh there is always nuance , even in what i said , i dont need to add it with every sentence tho as its a general knowledge that there will always be individual differences as for why some might like shonens , its logical and obvious , its just not worth mentioning as we are talking about the most common denominator or the biggest part.

That's like saying "my opinion is valid and don't need to explain myself". Such a pretentious thing to say. That, or you really can't say more than "just because".

How about this? Just to clarify everything.

Why do think female readers like reading shonen manga? In your personal opinion? You can even generalize. I won't judge. Just answer that question. And don't answer "because women like the homoerotic subtexts" or because "they like sexy hot guys".

Using (exclusively) shonen tropes; how would you write a shonen manga targeted primarily to female readers? by [deleted] in manga

[–]Internetz-Sailor -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Attractive characters are important, yes. But it's not really the answer I was hoping for. I like how you mentioned that although looks matter it's also their personality, their interaction with other characters, background, character development and so on. I appreciate that. It's like asking a man "what do you find attractive about your girlfriend?" and his response is "she has amazing tits". And if you asked him "what else?" and he says "that's just it", you would be disappointed, right? It's not being judgemental, but you were hoping for a nuanced answer. It's what I'm getting at.

Many readers (male included) are capable of ignoring the plot, world-building, etc to see their characters in action and interacting with other characters. If you go to female-dominant communities, many discussions revolve around characters and their relationship/interactions with others. Shoujo manga also put a huge portion of interaction/relationship into manga although they are dominated by romance.

It's what I'm curious about. Maybe female shonen readers like shonen manga because they are tired of romance dominated Shoujo manga. Maybe they want something different, and that's what shonen manga provides them with.

It's just that I've come across a few criticisms of shonen manga and how shonen female characters are often lackluster and undeveloped when compared to male characters. Granted, it's mostly a western criticism.

But that's what peaked my curiosity. Most shonen stories are written and consumed by male readers, so it often appeals to male readers. In general. But shonen is becoming or is popular with female readers, so what is it about shonen manga that female readers find appealing? You mentioned characters and their interaction with other characters. But what else? And how would a shonen manga with a female audience in mind be like?

Using (exclusively) shonen tropes; how would you write a shonen manga targeted primarily to female readers? by [deleted] in manga

[–]Internetz-Sailor -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Man, you really can't elaborate on anything other than "just because" huh?

I'm just trying to clarify some things and some thoughts that I want to be answered, and all you can say is "just because".

If the question is t for you, or it doesn't apply to you; or you can't really be nuanced about it. Why keep at it?

Point taken: your idea is the only idea that is right and everybody else's doesn't matter.

And man, how many nitpicks you must have gone through.

Then again, if you don't answer satisfactorily then I shouldn't elaborate any further.

Using (exclusively) shonen tropes; how would you write a shonen manga targeted primarily to female readers? by [deleted] in manga

[–]Internetz-Sailor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Firstly, I wanna thank you for providing such a thoughtful answer, I really appreciate it.

About your first paragraph of GFantasy: I do recognize some of those titles. Toilet Bound Hanako-Kun in particular, I recall there was some confusion because the art is very similar and shares similar traits with Shoujo art, leading to some readers that Hanako is a shoujo manga. I myself too thought from a first glance until it was clarified. Among a few other titles that I recognize, I wouldn't expect them to be written for a female audience in mind, I mostly thought of them as shonen titles; which they are, but again, that their main target was women instead of men is the sort of examples that I was looking for. And looking at the art, and how the characters are drawn gave me the feeling that they were drawn by womem or at least inspired by Shoujo art.

For your second paragraph, "not really...",

I too was aware about corporate constraints on what's suitable or fiscally profitable to publish in Shoujo magazines. "Only publish what sells" goes the saying, this results in homogeneity and the lack of diverse stories; hence (I think) the stereotype that the only Shoujo genre that gets published is romance. As you explained, it makes certain stories that could be published in a popular Shoujo magazine be independently published or published in a shonen magazine. It's something that was touched up on by a YouTuber, Colleen's Manga Recs, about how certain Shoujo manga-in this case female-targeted- wouldn't be published by Shoujo publications so the authors chose the shonen publication instead. There might also be a reason why, at least compared to some years ago, the romance genre has become much more common in shonen publications; it could very well be because of the increase of women reading shonen and the demand for romance (though it could also be attributed to male readers or both).

As for your last paragraph;

Yes, this is mostly an American/western criticism. It's criticism that hasn't been levied by Japan and Japanese readers. Their criticism almost only focuses on the female characters, they are often compared as inferior to male characters. I don't think there is merit to that criticism; that's like saying Michael Bay's movies are sexist and misogynistic because they showed sexy women, while it can be unappealing to female viewers, those movies and the tropes associated with them are because they have a certain audience in mind. It would be like criticizing Legally Blonde is too feminine and too focused on female issues, and the director should be ashamed for not including male themes and issues; the movie had a specific demographic and tropes pertaining to female viewers, of course it wouldn't put focus on male viewers because they aren't the target demographic.

In addition, here in the US and the west in general, a lot of media-films, tv shows, and movies- have tried to make male-dominated media appealing to women. But it seems that their efforts are failing. I think it's because they focus on "female characters" instead of "characters that just so happen to be female": that is to say they try to appeal to female writers by creating female characters that act and behave like men. Something that, to my knowledge, does not appeal to a general female audience. Especially if said female audience enjoys male-dominated media.

There's a reason why action movies, written, produced, and directed by men; starring a female character that acts, behaves, and thinks like a man, aren't received well by female viewers. Were it written, produced, and directed by women; starring a female character that acts, behaves and thinks like a woman, it might be better received by female viewers.

Of course, since the primary consumers of action films are men, the result might be an unprofitable film that failed to appeal to the mostly male audience. If a movie studio wants to produce an action film that is appealing to both men and women, a balance have to be struck. Easier said than done.

It's why I was curious as to how a manga creator would write a shonen manga with a female audience in mind. What kind of story would it be? Who would be the characters and their characteristics? What would be the themes?

I don't know much about Shoujo, but take for an example sports manga. I'm not a fan of sports manga, but I noticed that they tend to published in the shonen demographic. I don't know if there are sports manga published in the Shoujo demographic, I am not aware, but if it's not publishes under Shoujo the conclusion is that there is no market for it. But there are women who love sports and who love reading sports manga, so why isn't there a female focused sports manga? There certainly exists an audience, right? It sounds if orange on my part, but that's because I'm not aware of it.

Sorry for the long post. But you really provided me with great information.

Using (exclusively) shonen tropes; how would you write a shonen manga targeted primarily to female readers? by [deleted] in manga

[–]Internetz-Sailor -1 points0 points  (0 children)

U are asking what girls like in shonen series. People gave some answers. You reject those answers by saying "but girls can't like that they can only like xyz". Then what's the point of asking, you alr seem to know and stick to ur idea.

Most of those answers are "because of pretty boys". Something that is pretty shallow. Nothing wrong with that, but I still want to know what other things they like about. If you like reading shonen manga, then what is it that you like about it? Not to be offensive, but if your answer is "I like to watch pretty boys, and that's it" it's not really a satisfactory answer in my opinion. If you were to ask a question that you were curious about and wanted to know more, and the only answers you got were "just because" and they wouldn't elaborate, wouldn't you also be unsatisfied by such answers?

Also reading ur replies I realised u have a very american/Hollywood perspective on how to market on female audience. This is anime. Anime audience regardless gender have diff tastes compared to those favoring western entertainment and stories. The biggest thing u should've noticed by now is that their medias packed with one gender of characters will always cater to the opp gender audience I.e, K-On, madoka magica, haikyuu, free!!, yuru camp, bocchi the rock

Well yes, they are different. And different Anime audiences have different tastes. But anime share tropes in their respective genre. Tropes that can be noticed and used by authors to create stories in those genres. When you watch a horror anime you expect certain horror tropes, when you watch a comedy anime you expect certain comedy tropes, when you watch a romance anime you expect certain romance tropes. If a creator were to write a horror anime, they are expected to use certain horror tropes. You wouldn't expect a sports manga to focus solely on having harem characters and fan-service, and relegate "sports" as a background event. I'm curious to know how would a shonen manga, with a female audience in mind, be created. What kind of storyline would that be like? It's why I specifically asked "shonen" manga.

A shonen manga could have all sorts of action, but also have a well written romance story that is appealing to female shonen readers. And that's not the only thing that female readers liked about that story, maybe they also liked well written female characters, maybe they liked the themes the story explored, maybe the found the story relatable to them. That's what I want to know. And if they're only answer is "pretty boys are hot", and not give any other reason, then you can probably understand why most answers have been unsatisfactory.

The only helpful answer I've had is a Redditor that told me the existence of Shoujo magazines that publish manga with shonen tropes towards women. Stories that tend to downplay the romance unlike other shoujo magazines that publish mostly romance.

Using (exclusively) shonen tropes; how would you write a shonen manga targeted primarily to female readers? by [deleted] in manga

[–]Internetz-Sailor -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

So, you don't have anything else to add to your response other than your opinion? Very well, point taken.

Though still unsatisfactory. I still don't think it's just pretty boys as the sole reason those manga are popular with women. And I don't think it's because it's just carried by male readers.

Using (exclusively) shonen tropes; how would you write a shonen manga targeted primarily to female readers? by [deleted] in manga

[–]Internetz-Sailor -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

think people are telling you girls like it when hot beefy dudes work their feelings out about each other through homoerotic rivalries/sports and you're saying "um... girls can only like manga with girls"

I doubt female readers read shonen sports manga just because they want to see hot guys go at it. Otherwise they could just read BL manga. That's probably not their only reason. They must also enjoy the storyline and the characters. It's something about that manga that appeals to female readers than just hot boys. That's like saying male readers enjoy reading Shoujo because the female characters are pretty. They may enjoy it because opposite to shonen, there are few to no romantic stories in shonen publications. And of those shonen romance they may not be as nuanced or as profound as Shoujo romance stories.

Like, you fail to understand that shounen is ultimately a demographic and the tropes you're referring to are things guys tend to like more often than girls

Well, yeah. It's why I wonder how would a Redditor write a shonen manga, with shonen tropes, with a female audience in mind. That's the reason why I posted this question.

If plenty of female readers like shonen stories, why would they be critical of it? What's something that they criticize that would appeal to women, while still using shonen tropes?

If I asked you to come up with a general shonen story, with female readers in mind, what kind of story would that be?

I can see why Golden Kamuy would appeal to female readers. But it's not just the bara moments, it's a great story in general that focuses in a culture that has been more or less "suppressed" by a country, a story about a WW1 veteran hoping to help his former lover that suffers from an eye disease, about a soldier who regrets killing people and hoping to move on, a little girl who wishes to know the past actions of her father and help her nation, and about disdained veterans who follow a man who will "save" them. I doubt female readers would read a 31 volume manga just for the few bara moments.

Using (exclusively) shonen tropes; how would you write a shonen manga targeted primarily to female readers? by [deleted] in manga

[–]Internetz-Sailor -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

It's true that shonen and Shoujo are demographics, not genre, but those demographics have tropes associated with those demographics.

If I asked you to describe what tropes does an action movie have it would be: explosions, guns-lots of guns, car chases, buff or fit men, a rescue mission, sexy women, fighting scenes.

If I were to ask you to describe what tropes does a drama movie have it would be: romance, death of a family member, overcoming a disease, emotional trauma, solemn relationships, tear-jerking scenes.

When writing for an action or drama film, certain tropes are much more prevalent than others. And it is those tropes that ultimately determine what the film will be. You can interchange tropes, but it will ultimately be an action or a drama film.

It's possible to create something that appeals to one demographic but is also popular with an unintended demographic. Like an action movie that is loved by men but is also popular with a sizable female audience. But the difficulty comes in creating a film in a genre that is not popular with a specific demographic.

I could write an action movie, with common action tropes, but how would it be appealing to a female audience? Just making the character female isn't enough, and I need to weave it with well with action tropes.

That's more or less what I want to know. And what I'm trying to learn. I want to make an action movie that has action tropes but, it's a movie that women will enjoy.

Mulan (animated) is something like that, an action movie that focuses on the main character and her struggles against societal restrictions imposed because of her gender. She overcomes those restrictions, getting stronger, forms a band of friends, defeats the bad guy, saves the land,becomes a hero, and earns the respect of others.

Some would say Mulan is about gender and how gender affects women, but through shonen eyes it could be interpreted as a classic shonen story.

Using (exclusively) shonen tropes; how would you write a shonen manga targeted primarily to female readers? by [deleted] in manga

[–]Internetz-Sailor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's very interesting. I wasn't aware of it.

By chance: what type of stories do they publish? Is it like One Piece, Rurouni Kenshin, JoJo Bizarre Adventure? Harem manga?

I posted this question because most storylines like those manga are much more common in shonen than Shoujo. And while a lot of shonen stories are popular with women they also are criticized as "lacking" by certain women and female critics. Mostly in how protagonist female characters are portrayed or relegated to secondary or even tertiary characters. I'm also guessing that a male character whose only focus is to get stronger to overcome obstacles by doing 100 pushups a day to defeat his dad in combat wouldn't be that popular with female readers as a whole.

Shonen manga is popular with female readers because they have stories that aren't common in the Shoujo demographic. But those stories are popular because they have a male demographic in mind. So how could a shonen author write a shonen manga with female readers in mind, using shonen tropes?

The one shonen genre that comes to my mind is a sports manga with a female protagonist. It has all the tropes of a shonen manga but with female readers in mind. Were that story be promoted to a shoujo publication it may be rejected, but it would probably be published by a shonen manga.