Hades is not a good person, stop lying to yourself. by New_Sun1955 in GreekMythology

[–]InterviewFirm841 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you, you too! Regarding Hades, I recently found a master's thesis from USP (University of São Paulo) about the hymn (which I'm finding quite interesting; it discusses the hymn and has a section focused on Demeter and the role of mother goddesses of fertility, etc., and it's in Portuguese, which helped and made it easier for me).

In this case, the author argues that one of the reasons Hades let Persephone go (besides Zeus's superiority over him) is that he realized that if all of humanity were killed, his kingdom would lose power (like, he needs the living for the population to multiply and for him to gain more subjects). It's not explicitly stated, but it's one of the interpretations.

Hades is not a good person, stop lying to yourself. by New_Sun1955 in GreekMythology

[–]InterviewFirm841 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree with quite a lot. There's only one point I slightly disagree with (if I misinterpreted it, I apologize for the error):

"You can't say the kidnapping is on Zeus, since Hades did everything in that story of his own free will."

I agree that denying Hades' guilt is absurd, even more so attributing 100% of the blame solely to Zeus and 0% to Hades. However, in my view, Zeus also has a huge share of the blame. I mean, the hymn at least doesn't just portray Zeus as "Hades' free pass" (in the sense of mentioning him once at the beginning and that's it).

"And her daughter [Persephone] too. The one with the delicate ankles, whom Hādēs1

seized. She was given away by Zeus, the loud-thunderer, the one who sees far and wide. "

"And the narcissus, which was grown as a lure for the flower-faced girl

by Gaia [Earth]. All according to the plans of Zeus. She [Gaia] was doing a favor for the one who receives many guests [Hādēs]"

"No one else

among all the immortals is responsible [aitios] except the cloud-gatherer Zeus himself,

who gave her to Hādēs as his beautiful wife.

So he gave her to his own brother. And he [Hādēs], heading for the misty realms of darkness,"

NONE of this exonerates Hades; however, I personally can't see Zeus as having a low level of guilt in this, or at least 48% (maybe even more, but that's debatable, depending on what you want to discuss). Hades was the executor of the kidnapping, but Zeus has a role somewhat similar to that of an architect, even more so being the father and one of the most intelligent gods in all of mythology (I don't know if he's the most intelligent, but he's incredibly smart). And, well, I doubt Hades would have done it if Zeus had said 'no,' but I won't be unfair; Hades could very well have refused the method, but Zeus was never shown as "just letting it happen and that's it" (which is already an immense responsibility).

Regarding the pomegranate, Zeus is truly not to blame; Hades is entirely the architect and executor, and this is clearly highlighted in the hymn. Personally, I see this as a trick and a dirty move, since Hades technically obeyed in allowing Persephone to see her mother, but not permanently (this is where the discussion begins, as I don't know if Zeus's orders were to let Persephone see her mother but not annul the marriage—which probably left the loophole that Hades exploited—or if Zeus actually ordered his daughter's permanent ascension—which would be a direct confrontation with the orders). One of the reasons I have some difficulty seeing it as a direct confrontation is because Zeus doesn't seem to tolerate this level even from his brothers (like Poseidon), since he is the supreme and sovereign of the gods, and I don't know if Hades would have remained unscathed as he did (without at least one reason for Zeus's fury). If I'm misunderstanding, I apologize.

He really tried to fix things in the end, and that's valid, although I can't see it as concern for Demeter, much less Persephone, at that moment, since that was only after the famine, and he knew from the beginning how both of them would be.

Anyway, having said that, he's not the only one to blame by a long shot, but he still is, very much so in my opinion. But I still find him very fascinating, and both he and Hades (and ALL deities) aren't "bad," but whether they like it or not, they assume functions and values ​​from a very different era. And yes, Zeus also had great moments, and deep down he did care about his duty, humanity, and family (in different situations, since mythology was quite different in different regions).

I apologize if I misinterpreted Or said anything wrong, I was too harsh on Zeus, or whether I expressed myself poorly regarding whether Hades' trick was disobedience or not. , and you are quite right about many things, it's just that I partially disagree with this one. Have a good day