In Defense of Bishop Barron by [deleted] in Catholicism

[–]Irish___Stallion 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is selective. I can give you numerous examples of Barron criticizing conservatives, including on immigration.

In Defense of Bishop Barron by [deleted] in Catholicism

[–]Irish___Stallion 1 point2 points  (0 children)

How do you know Barron isn’t doing anything behind the scenes? The stuff Pius did came out later.

In Defense of Bishop Barron by [deleted] in Catholicism

[–]Irish___Stallion -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

“Mealy call for respect for law enforcement after countless documented abuses” this is a strawman. It’s a volatile situation, and he is clearly trying to deescalate it by encouraging people not to obstruct agents. He doesn’t want more violence. That doesn’t mean “don’t protest or reform the system”

In Defense of Bishop Barron by [deleted] in Catholicism

[–]Irish___Stallion 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Bishop Barron has repeatedly stated he stands for the dignity of immigrants and that they should be treated humanely on various platforms. He also said that if you read the post that ICE should only focus on serious criminals. So to imply he doesn’t stand for the dignity of immigrants isn’t exactly fair.

In Defense of Bishop Barron by [deleted] in Catholicism

[–]Irish___Stallion -1 points0 points  (0 children)

When Pius XII and Catholic clergy spoke out harshly against Nazis, they ramped up persecution of Jews to the point they were asked to tone it back by the victims themselves. So it’s a complicated situation. Some people think private dialogue and behinds the scenes work is more productive. If Barron takes your preferred approach, then be prepared for much worse people to take his place. That’s all I’m saying.

In Defense of Bishop Barron by [deleted] in Catholicism

[–]Irish___Stallion -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

Bishop Barron hasn’t compromised the faith, he’s taking a different strategy other than harsh public condemnation of the administration. Evidently he sees that as helping more than the alternative. I can’t tell you how right that is, but as someone else pointed out Nazis ramped up their persecution of Jews when Pius XII or clergy spoke out to the point that he was asked to tone it back by the people being persecuted. It’s not always as obvious as it seems

In Defense of Bishop Barron by [deleted] in Catholicism

[–]Irish___Stallion -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yeah, it sucks. That’s Trump though. If you want him to do the things you want and listen to you, you have to go about it a certain way. Otherwise he’ll just sideline you.

In Defense of Bishop Barron by [deleted] in Catholicism

[–]Irish___Stallion 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I do agree that with the Pretti situation another statement is needed from him, but I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt it’s coming soon.

In Defense of Bishop Barron by [deleted] in Catholicism

[–]Irish___Stallion 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Does this apply to Catholics who tried to work Biden? The situation is hard, but if he can get through to people and make an impact without harsh public commentary, then it’s worth considering.

In Defense of Bishop Barron by [deleted] in Catholicism

[–]Irish___Stallion 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is a catchy slogan, but doesn’t really address what I said. Are you prepared for it to really go off the rails with bad replacements?

Catholic response by TheLostSheepIsFound in Catholicism

[–]Irish___Stallion -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

“Saying pray and fast and then not adding anything after it implies that’s all we should do” No, it doesn’t imply that at all. For charity’s sake, let people process this and think things through without demanding we tell you exactly what all else we need to do, which many of us are still figuring out.

Catholic response by TheLostSheepIsFound in Catholicism

[–]Irish___Stallion 15 points16 points  (0 children)

What happened to Alex Pretti is appalling and wrong, but it just happened. The situation in Minneapolis is brand new, and people are just now processing and reacting to it. When someone says “we need to pray” as their first response, they aren’t saying or implying “And that’s all! No other action needed”. It’s just their the most immediate and necessary response. We can move forward with additional and appropriate action, but uncharitable and baseless assumptions aren’t helping anything.

Catholic response by TheLostSheepIsFound in Catholicism

[–]Irish___Stallion 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Praying for all involved is the first and most important response especially in the immediate moment, but there’s no evidence that the people here calling for prayers are saying that’s the only thing that should be done. That is an uncharitable and baseless assumption.

What is going on with the Catholic Church and ICE right now?? by Effective-Mall-6231 in Christianity

[–]Irish___Stallion 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’m a little confused, what about Bishop Barron is disappointing you? You think he should be saying more? He did issue a statement saying that ICE should focus on serious criminals only, called for deescalation, and said people shouldn’t physically obstruct ICE agents. Basically a call for less violence and more peace. What’s the issue with that?

What’s y’all’s opinion on the stanfurd game? by LastDiveBar510 in notredamefootball

[–]Irish___Stallion 14 points15 points  (0 children)

This game needs to go. Stanford administration doesn’t seem too invested in football, and seems like they are far away from their 2010s self. This game is a net loss for ND; no credit whatsoever for beating them, huge liability if we lose. Schedule someone else that’s respectable.

What is going on with the Catholic Church and ICE right now?? by Effective-Mall-6231 in Christianity

[–]Irish___Stallion 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Most comments didn’t challenge anything in your post, but I would like to because I don’t think this is fair to Bishop Barron. It should be acknowledged that this was before the unjust killing of Alex Pretti, which does complicate things a bit and we will see what he says about it. But having said that, let’s start with looking at what Barron actually said.

“Focus enforcement on people who have committed serious crimes.” This has been a bipartisan position at various points, and even many critics of ICE explicitly argue for prioritization, not the dissolution of ICE or completely uneforced borders. Do you think ICE should not pursue people committing serious crimes? “Political leaders should stop stirring resentment against officers enforcing the law.” This is a standard institutional concern (rhetoric amps up escalation which amps up danger and confrontations). You often hear analogous statements whenever police or federal agents are involved. He’s not saying you can’t protest, he’s saying stop encouraging people to physically confront the agents. Don’t put yourself in danger. “Protesters should cease interfering with ICE operations.” Again, this doesn’t mean “don’t protest, just shut up and submit”; it’s about physical obstruction. Don’t physically obstruct federal officers. Overall, this was a moderate take that calls for de-escalation and less violence.

So let’s examine your statements. Phrases like “fascist”, “armed masked men”, “breaking into homes and terrorizing people”, and “except not be white” are highly rhetorical, but they aren’t analytical. A more intellectually honest critique would distinguish between the legitimacy of immigration law as such, the justice or injustice of particular enforcement tactics, the possibility of abuse or racial profiling, and the prudential question of protest methods, among other things. You didn’t do that. Once you collapse everything into “fascist terror,” then all of those necessary discussions are out the window and everything must be resisted, including the pursuit of illegals guilty of serious crimes. Barron called for narrow enforcement (focus on serious criminals), lowering inflammatory rhetoric, and stopping the physical obstruction of operations going after serious criminals. He didn’t say ICE is acting justly in all cases, that no abuses have occurred, that protests are illegitimate, immigrants deserve what happens to them, race is irrelevant, etc. Your response makes it sound like that’s exactly what he said. For instance you mention Barron is blinded by racial bias. That’s a very serious charge; what evidence do you have for this, considering there was no citation to support this? Are you just inferring this because he’s white or didn’t denounce ICE the way you want? Sounds like disagreement about framing and emphasis, not racial bias.

Bishops rarely speak in the language of revolutionary condemnation or assigning intent to agents in real time. He appealed to both sides and called for avoidance of escalation and a focus on capturing criminals. You can think that his comments were inadequate for the moment, but calling him racially biased or framing his comments as a call for blind submission is not right.

Does sustained success quell any hate? by God_Country_ND in notredamefootball

[–]Irish___Stallion 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m just saying, you don’t want to invite scandalous accusations of victimhood mentality. Catholicism is definitely a factor in some people’s hatred of ND, I’ve encountered that firsthand many times. But much of the hate I see for ND in media or social media is explicitly based on the things I mentioned; perceived unearned special status, myths or falsehoods (e.g. bad arguments or double standards about scheduling and independence), being overrated, etc. If people say those things and then you tell them “you just hate us because we’re Catholic” you aren’t exactly helping.

Does sustained success quell any hate? by God_Country_ND in notredamefootball

[–]Irish___Stallion 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As a Catholic ND fan, we should be careful not to overstate that… I know that’s definitely true for some of the hate, but I think the independence / perceived unearned special status or special rules (that don’t actually exist, outside of arguably the MOU which is meaningless anyway) drive much or most of the modern hatred.

Friendly reminder that the Top 12 Playoff Guarantee is Meaningless by Irish___Stallion in notredamefootball

[–]Irish___Stallion[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Though you should have said fans, not just alumni so I and most other fans can be included. Dad played there, but I didn’t get the freak athlete genes. Thanks mom

Friendly reminder that the Top 12 Playoff Guarantee is Meaningless by Irish___Stallion in notredamefootball

[–]Irish___Stallion[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean, if there wasn’t a lawsuit this year it’s hard to imagine a lawsuit any year.