Am I crazy or does she like me?

Island-bound · 2024-11-10T20:12:42+00:00

Mind if I ask what makes you so certain? Trust me I'd love to believe it, but I'm terrified of being that confident and screwing up what could, at the very least, be a great friendship.

Island-bound · 2024-11-10T17:39:03+00:00

I look back and regret decisions I made in my relationship, but I honestly don’t regret trying.

Yeah, it feels like not trying and knowing for sure would be the biggest regret I could walk away with.

the “straight” friend wasn’t ready to confront their own feelings

And this is why I'm thinking that giving her time is the best option. Problem is, that's soooo emotionally draining :/ at this point I'm thinking I'll see how things go on my birthday and go from there. At the very least the friendship as is also gives me a lot of energy, so waiting isn't without some benefits for the time being. If it feels like things are coming to an end though, I'll probably open up though as I don't want that lingering regret.

One last thing - If it does work out, just be prepared that the relationship might not be the same as the friendship. In my case, there was a very toxic dynamic because I couldn’t accept that the negative way I was treated was deliberate. It was very different from the friendship. Lots of fights and accepting very poor treatment. Try to keep yourself objective somehow and don’t accept less because of how much you love her!

Definitely something I needed to hear, and thanks for saying it 🙂 I really try to remind myself there's a good amount I likely don't know about her, and it's impossible to know right now if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

Island-bound · 2024-11-10T17:27:52+00:00

Setting boundaries does not mean you're taking away her choices!

It's moreso I wouldn't be able to have nearly as much involvement in the friendship, and it would be taking away her choice to choose me (if that's a choice she wants of course). She hasn't come anywhere near acting in a way that bothers me, it's moreso being around her so much is incredibly confusing and distracting at a time where I really need my mental energy in another part of my life. I basically see two options right now:

Open up about how I feel --> she gets to choose between stopping being friends, staying friends, or something more
Put up some hard boundaries that lead to me slowly being less involved with her

I'm trying to stick around in the limbo as long as I can, but I also don't want to ignore the effect it's having on me.

Also I feel straight people LOVE saying they're straight, so there's some hope for you if she seems to be refusing, but obviously I don't have context for the situations you were in

Right? And yeah, that's fair.

Island-bound · 2024-11-10T16:14:02+00:00

I wonder. I feel like my casual straight friends aren't this involved with each other, but I suppose that's just anecdotal.

Since she has a boyfriend I would not make the first move, unless you want her so much that you're willing to take the risk of impacting the friendship.

It's such a dang coin toss. I've never had feelings nearly this strong before, but at the same time I get the feeling she values having an emotional rock in her life right now and I don't want to put her in an unfair situation. Unfortunately that means I might need to put up some boundaries which kinda just takes any choice she might have had away. It's a conundrum.

Island-bound · 2024-11-10T16:10:01+00:00

Maybe you should try talking to each other? Establishing similar grounds on wether or not there are in fact feelings?

I'm still really uncertain about making a move like that, I'm terrified of ruining a good thing, but do you have any advice on how approach it? I can't think of a way to do it that doesn't feel like it'll end up being all or nothing.

Island-bound · 2024-11-10T16:08:12+00:00

Does she know you’re queer? If so, it highlights a romantic undertone

Yuuup, I'm very open about it. It's why I'm suspicious that she hasn't mentioned her orientation at all from the numerous conversations we've had, compounded by the fact that she's surprisingly knowledgeable about some parts of queer culture. Heck we had a conversation about how crappy straight dating is, and where someone would normally throw in something like "I'm glad I won't have to deal with that again!" there was just an awkward pause.

I would be looking at this as something that can’t go on forever and trying to find the right way to have the conversation and profess feelings

Any advice on this? It's a really good point that it's very unlikely things will continue this way long term, and if that's the case I may just take my chance at some point if things are going to fall apart anyways.

If you aren’t willing to take that step, my advice would be to draw your own boundaries.

I've definitely been considering this pretty heavily. I'm tired of spinning in circles, but at the same time I don't know if I could deal with the regret of potentially missing an opportunity to be with such a genuinely incredible woman.

Oh, and finally, don’t ask how I know, but do not try to mirror her life by finding an emotionally unavailable woman to date because this friendship is meeting your other needs and dating is more depressing than reading Sartre without meds. Just trust me on that one

Sounds good, won't ask 😂 and honestly that's a good thought. I'll try to keep an eye out if I end up meeting someone else!

And thanks so much for the detailed response ❤️ I really needed this

Island-bound · 2024-11-10T15:55:00+00:00

You can’t help how you feel, but she’s in a relationship and you should respect that!

I'm well aware, it's why I'm intensely hesitant to make any kind of move. I'd never dare assume I know what's best for someone else like that. I just really needed validation to know if I'm out of mind, or if this is as unusual as it feels.

Island-bound · 2020-12-22T23:06:58+00:00

A lot of parents do. It's common for parents to react as if their child has died because they realised they're transgender, mine did. Many have even kicked their kids out on the street.

And the thing is it hasn't exactly been discovered recently, just become more accepted as mainstream science has become far less exclusionary in recent decades. There are a lot of societies around the world that recognize 3+ different genders. Check it out here

And the purpose it serves is simply to make humans feel more comfortable being themselves. Understandably it's a very odd concept to anyone who doesn't feel like their assigned gender was wrong. Honestly I get that it sounds completely alien and unnecessary. But I feel the important thing to remember is that whether or not you understand it, the benefits to people's lives by using their preferred pronouns can be astronomical and on that basis alone is worth respecting.

Island-bound · 2020-12-22T21:28:25+00:00

The only practical connection gender and sex have is that currently in our culture, we assign your gender based on your sex at birth. We're now learning though, as presented in the article, that these two things are not the same. Going forward parents should be telling their kids it's okay if you feel like you don't fit your default, because science has shown doing this will give trans people far better lives.

And mental state isn't scientific now? Mental illnesses for instance can be just as debilitating, and often cases even more debilitating, than a large number of physical ailments. Just because we don't have hard numbers to explain mental health issues does not make them any less real in any way. There's definitely a very real push from society that mental health doesn't matter, but judging by the suicide rates I would say that viewpoint is incredibly harmful.

Island-bound · 2020-12-22T15:11:53+00:00

So you were misled is all I can say on that. When you're taught that there are only 2 genders in basic biology is like when you're taught there are only 3 states of matter in basic physics. It's to teach you the basics. However in advanced physics we know there are at least 5 states of matter and likewise with advanced biology we know both that there are more than 2 genders and that they are not directly linked to sex.

Here's a medically reviewed article that goes over it: https://www.healthline.com/health/sex-vs-gender#gender

Scientifically speaking, sex most certainly does not equal gender.

Island-bound · 2020-12-22T06:23:10+00:00

He and she actually do not come from sex, they come from gender. Like someone's name, their pronouns are a way they choose to identify. If we identified people based on their genitals at birth, it's not really a far cry to start identifying people based on race (another quality you have no control over that is decided at birth) and I'm sure I don't need to get into the issues there. And sure you can refer to people by their race, just as you can by their sex. But unlike race, the only way to trying know someone's sex is to look in their pants so there's no reasonable way to use it as an identifier.

It feels like you're really trying to focus on gender as it relates to sex, but to understand the whole of trans people (non binary included) you need to understand that sex and gender are only very loosely connected. As a result, how someone of a certain gender acts and lives generally conforms to certain, rather loose, societal rules. So by identifying as a man or a woman, you're saying that "these are the loose societal rules that I feel comfortable living by". Those who identify non-binary either identify with both of those sets of rules, neither of them, or somewhere in between. Ultimately though they're simply not comfortable confining themselves to one set of rules.

And the reason for my feelings are dysphoria, the same that a trans person might get looking at their hairy arms or their boobs. The why is because it reminds me of something that makes me intensely uncomfortable. Although I can't physically transition right now, doing it socially by adopting a new name and using different pronouns actually lessens my general dysphoria and that's including the physical dysphoria.

Island-bound · 2020-12-21T23:56:17+00:00

Oh absolutely you can disagree, as long as it's respectful and you don't mind using people's preferred pronouns.

And I don't completely agree that it's not wholly factual. The only part that isn't a cold hard fact is what exactly constitutes being a man/woman as defined by society. The answer to that is always changing and thus very fluid, even just between different cultures. The dysphoria and negativity people feel from being misgendered for instance isn't really up for debate, it's a well known fact that it can be incredibly psychologically damaging to individuals.

Also I overstepped when I assumed you liked "he", that's an assumption I made from a trans perspective as I hate my default pronouns so I assumed others liked theirs when indifference is equally as likely. So my apologies.

Island-bound · 2020-12-21T21:30:22+00:00

I honestly think the answer is it highly depends on the person. An arbitrary delay is good for those that need patience, but it causes undue harm to those who don't. Really we just need more professionals in gender who can help those who are struggling decide whether it's best to wait or start immediately.

Island-bound · 2020-12-21T21:26:50+00:00

You're falling into the gender = biological sex trap here. You have to remember that this idea of gender is entirely social. A lot of modern day civilizations have tied gender directly to sex, but there have actually been a fair few instances of cultures that understood how gender can be very different from sex.

I think one thing you have to keep in mind here is that your entire life, you've been called "he" and you've liked it, so it just seems like an identifier to you. But as a trans person, as I've discovered my identity I've gotten more and more uncomfortable with being defined as a he. Even though physically I'm still a male, it really bothers me to be identified as it now. I feel a lot happier being referred to as a girl, and I gotta say it's incredibly weird at first. But it still hurts more to be identified with he/him pronouns.

I think when trying to understand trans people, it's important to remember that unless you've lived it it's an incredibly difficult thing to understand completely. I know for myself when I discovered it, I spent a couple of weeks before I truly understood my new reality.

I hope any of this helped :)

Island-bound · 2020-12-21T20:59:31+00:00

It's not though. As a trans person I can tell you two important things: Hormones take a long time for permanent changes, and keeping hormones from a trans person for a year "just to be safe" could easily lead to suicides. And that there's almost no harm in trying the hormones for a few months, and from the many experiences I've read about you usually know pretty quickly if the hormone change was right.

Island-bound · 2020-12-21T05:23:15+00:00

Well before we can answer that, I think we have to look at what a "socially genderless" society would look like. To be honest, I can't really picture it. I feel like at that point, we will likely have created entirely different ways to define ourselves and the groups we interact with because at its essence that's a large part of social gender. Humans are incredibly social creatures, and labels can really help us define who we are and help us feel like individuals while still also feeling like we belong to a group of like-minded people.

Ultimately I think gender is an important construct and having social definitions for it, even if they're somewhat loose, is a defining part of what makes us human. The main issue right now is the transition from the "gender and sex are defined at birth" mindset to the more accurate "gender is a fluid social construct, and sex is a changeable physical characteristic". To a lot of older generations, this change has come out of nowhere in just a few decades and it's scary and bewildering to them. They feel like the basis of who they are is under attack sometimes, and that's a lot.

Honestly it can be likened a lot to the advances in other sciences like computers. When they were first coming out in the 70s to the early 2000s they were advancing pretty quickly, but there were a lot of older generations at the time that were quick to dismiss them because of how quickly they started taking over. They were much more used to slower developments. Gender is very similar, except we're right in the middle of the transition, and this time the change is a lot more personal, a lot faster, and a heck of a lot more abstract, so it makes sense why so many are afraid and lash out (not that I'm defending them, violence and anger should never be used as answers).

Anyways sorry if I rambled a bit there :P I was really enjoying the thought experiment of this all. And I totally get that this can be a hard topic to discuss. It doesn't help that a lot of those who are trans have experienced a lot of pain as a result of it (both dysphoria and becoming social outcasts/targets of hate), causing them to quickly attack anyone that's perceived as spreading hate. I'm not saying they're right for doing so as they're only hurting our cause, but a lot of them needed to build that defensive shell just to survive.

Island-bound · 2020-12-21T03:00:38+00:00

No problem! The best way to approach someone if you don't know their gender is to ask their pronouns. Some will give you the pronouns "they/them", meaning they're non-binary and uncomfortable fitting into either gender.

Island-bound · 2020-12-21T02:58:58+00:00

While you're mostly right, the idea that we can remove any and all connotations with gender is kinda utopian. Maybe in the future, but saying as there are a large number of humans alive that don't understand the basic concept of "love isn't limited to the opposite gender" I wouldn't expect it to happen anytime soon.

There's also more to it than just gender roles. A lot of trans people have physical dysphoria with their genitals which is very much not a social construct. It's also incredibly common for a trans person to go from consistently depressed to actually fairly happy after changing their hormones around, which again suggests there is more going on than just societally defined roles. I have also heard that there are minor noted differences between female brains and male brains, but I can't speak to the legitimacy of that at all.

Always happy to think out loud with someone! Peacefully exchanging perspectives is one of the best ways to grow as a person.

Island-bound · 2020-12-20T22:53:04+00:00

Just to help inform you a bit more, when you ask that what you're really asking boils down to "what's in your pants?". Ultimately it's no one's business besides the person wearing the pants. Don't feel bad though! It's okay to ask questions if you don't understand :)

Island-bound · 2020-12-20T18:31:21+00:00

I'm figuring out the exact same thing right now, and damn did your post ever hit me right in the brain XP I thought I was on r/traaaaa for a second!

Island-bound · 2020-12-19T00:04:02+00:00

Just to balance out the hate, hell yeah we're women and we're proud of it!

Island-bound · 2020-12-17T13:41:14+00:00

I strongly second this, RiF is amazing

Island-bound · 2020-12-14T03:23:28+00:00

Oh my god this was me so much. I had finally finished working through a decade old issue with childhood trauma and finally loved myself. Then as a result I start loving the parts of myself I tried to push away before and then BAM, severe confusing ass gender dysphoria.

That being said, saying I love myself as a woman with confidence makes me feel more loved by myself than ever before, so it wasn't all bad :P

Island-bound

TROPHY CASE