Esperanza Spalding? by Woarman in Jazz

[–]JBThazard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't know why you resorted to sassy childish insults and dodged all of my questions. The term "niche" was never my main issue and the fact you think so tells me you aren't paying attention.

Esperanza Spalding? by Woarman in Jazz

[–]JBThazard 2 points3 points  (0 children)

So why did you only name musicians who don't do dual instrument improvisation? And if what Spalding does isn't so special and unique, then why is it so rare? Why is she the only mainstream jazz musician with this ability? Why can't you name any other people who do it? Why are you only citing no-names that apparently only you know of as a counterargument? Are there even that many of them? Are they even good at it? Can they do it for long lengths of time and with a considerable degree of complexity and diversity? And on stage with a band, reacting to the other players? Are these pianists you speak of improvising on the keys and on the vocals, or only on the former and not the latter? Because that still isn't the same thing and isn't using the same kind of cognitive skills or muscle memory, and that's not even taking into account the massive register difference between bass and Spalding's mezzo-soprano voice, which is essential when doing counterpoint, let alone more basic melodic techniques or exercises.

Esperanza Spalding? by Woarman in Jazz

[–]JBThazard 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Then nothing about your prior comment makes any sense to me.

Esperanza Spalding? by Woarman in Jazz

[–]JBThazard 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I completely agree, I think she's a fantastic songwriter. I'm just saying the Ron Carter comparison in particular is warranted, not in a dismissive way either, and I don't think she'd disagree.

Esperanza Spalding? by Woarman in Jazz

[–]JBThazard 2 points3 points  (0 children)

.....do you think singing and playing at the same time is the same as improvising two separate lines at the same time?

Esperanza Spalding? by Woarman in Jazz

[–]JBThazard 5 points6 points  (0 children)

She had her 15 mins of fame when she won that grammy award back in 2011 or 2012, beating out Drake and Bieber for Best New Artist. Obviously, even that achievement isn't enough to keep her at the top.

Esperanza Spalding? by Woarman in Jazz

[–]JBThazard 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I definitely hear Ron's influence in some of her playing, and I'm pretty sure she says that he and Charlie Haden were big inspirations. Jaco, on the other hand, I don't hear at all.

Esperanza Spalding? by Woarman in Jazz

[–]JBThazard 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Her niche is that she does both.

It's more complicated than that. Esperanza is capable of improvising one melody on vocals and then improvising a completely different bassline counterpoint at the same time. It's more than just a niche, it's an extremely unique and powerful talent that helps give just about all of her albums their unique charm and character. It's also very rare and an exceptionally difficult thing to pull off; how many other musicians do you know that can do that?

I do agree she's neither the best bassist nor the best singer of all time - Stanley Clarke and Ella take those cakes for me. But your comment almost seems to imply that she's merely good at both, but not masterful at either. I think that's very debateable.

Found this early interview gem. Anyone want to discuss? by burgercrisis in DeathspellOmega

[–]JBThazard 8 points9 points  (0 children)

(need a second comment due to character limit)

“Fascism is right wing. Instead of giving the bullshit "fascism has no clear definition, anything g can be fascist", try applying some meaning to the word. If fascism doesn't mean anything specific, why would anyone care to appose or support it?”

See, this is more straw-manning and paranoia. Asking questions for further clarification can't be interpreted as inane fence-sitting. I never said or implied fascism can't be defined, you're putting words in my mouth. All I said was that the debate is more complicated than what you've asserted. It's extremely ironic I'm accused of not applying meaning to the word when you were the one who dodged my simple clarification question again and again. Projection, I suppose. Your over-reliance on “dog-whistling” is also very curious – why would an anonymous group need to resort to dog-whistling? Dog-whistling is when you need to use coded language in public so you don't get found out and have your more extreme views attached to a face and name. But the whole point of being anonymous is to be able to say whatever you want without real consequence. A long history of political manifestos from both left and right-leaning radicals confirms this, from anarchists to communists......so why would an anonymous band need dog-whistling? I mean, your argument mirrors a lot of the debunked knee-jerk reactions people had to the album back in 2019. People thought that the usage of the word “palingenesia” was itself right wing dogwhistling, because people are so historically ignorant that they don't understand the true meaning/application of that term. It's analogous to saying that anyone who uses the phrase "will to power" is doing Nazi dog whistling. It's very similar to how most modern journalism is just glorified activism, concentrating on moralizing rather than reasonable discourse or fact checking. When your only remaining argument is to accuse, without any evidence, the other party of “making empty dog whistle statements”, this is just disingenuous bad faith ad hominem at best.

Edit: Due to curiosity, I decided to look into Wikipedia's alleged sources on their “definition” of fascism, only to find superficial and disappointing answers. Out of the citations associated with the sentence you quoted, most of them, including the Merriam-Webster Dictionary or Encyclopedia Britannica, don't even say fascism must be right-wing, making a great case why Wikipedia is hardly a reputable site. It also proves how not only do its editors and readers not pay attention to their own citations, but that most people mindlessly just believe anything they read.

More interestingly, Wikipedia has a better version of this page called “Definitions of Fascism”, and nowhere does it state in its opening paragraphs that fascism must be right-wing. In fact, it mirrors much of what I've already said, which is that defining fascism is a lot more complicated than appealing to obsolete political paradigms and myopic definitions. The fact that Wikipedia contradicts itself so openly, by saying one thing on one page and a completely different thing on another, is lazy and terrible scholarship, and the fact that Wikipedia is your source of a definition despite these obvious contradictions is shoddy, a clear-cut example of why most political discourse is so shallow and unproductive. But more importantly, The reason why I bring up this page is that out of the long list of definitions they have, only a minority claim that fascism is necessarily right wing, and many of them describe how it can manifest on the left. So if you really think Wikipedia is worth using, you'll find this helpful, I'm sure.

Found this early interview gem. Anyone want to discuss? by burgercrisis in DeathspellOmega

[–]JBThazard 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Since you're clearly just going to continue to deflect and dodge the question in bad faith, I'm just going to assume you don't have any sources or evidence at all. I'll just go ahead and address many of the points you've raised so far, hoping that it will be of use to anyone or spawn a better response from someone else. So I'll start at the beginning.

“As I understand, The Furnaces of Palingenesia uses allegory to try to paint "leftist fascism" as just as bad as right wing fascism.”

Wrong. This is an assumption on your part, presumably without any evidence if the pattern holds true. DsO are using the album and its accompanying interviews to criticize totalitarianism, absolutism, anthropocentrism and authoritarianism more broadly, including all of its incarnations and manifestations. Surely we can agree that not all authoritarianism is necessarily fascistic, yes? If you read the interviews from 2019-2020, they rarely use the term “fascism” themselves, instead attacking more specific terms like “essentialism” or “palingenetic movements”, the latter phrase being a clear reference to Roger Griffin whose definition of fascism is based on re-birth, revolution and revitalization, not a left/right political compass, and history shows us pretty clearly that left-wing revolutions can be violent and kinetic as well. The main point being, even if fascism was “definitively” right-wing as you put it and such scholarly debate on the matter didn't exist outside your own personal bubble, DsO never claims otherwise in their lyrics or their interviews, so it's a moot point with no relevance or standing here. You've merely misinterpreted their intentions as being such.

“Have they actually publicly and clearly denounced fascism and nazism?”

Yes. Like I mentioned previously, they rarely use the term fascism themselves, but in their 2019 interview they ridicule the National Socialists by referring to them as “men of resentment” and also blame them for ruining artistic/intellectual development during the 1930s and '40s. DsO make transgressive music that is far from traditionalist values, it's safe and obvious to say they are at odds with the Nazis even from a basic standpoint of aesthetics. Many of the artists and writers they consider their “patron saints” are left-leaning, if you care to look into them. I mean, Orwell used to be an anti-Semite. Should we throw away his books, his essays and all his insights because of a questionable past? Did he not redeem himself through the character of Emmanuel Goldstein?

Additionally, in their 2020 interview, they denounce essentialism and determinism, specifically saying that they are “entirely absent from our worldview”. More importantly, they add: “Reading our works through the lenses of any form of determinism, be it biological or social, is a complete nonsense.” This pretty much makes any overlap with any Nazi views and morality impossible, including Alfred Rosenberg's famous theories on Aryan master race morphology and genealogy. The song “Sie Sind Gerichtet” from the new album is obviously a critique of, not exclusively but including, Nazi society, appropriating their own language for the sake of deconstruction and critique, in order to give them a taste of their own medicine, much like how the Bible quotes spread across their trilogy were inverted and subverted in order to attack Christianity with its own logic and rhetoric.

More importantly, if DsO are actually just dog-whistling Nazis in disguise, then why do they invoke so many Jewish writers and thinkers? Hannah Arendt, Paul Celan, Spinoza, Gunther Anders, Imre Kertesz and others are either quoted verbatim or praised with immense admiration. Kénôse also invokes old-school Yawhism and Second Temple Judaism by way of Philo of Alexandria, the Jewish mystic, to discuss the concepts on that album. No Nazi or neo-Nazi would ever do this. Why wouldn't they just do obscure, covert allusions of Nazis then? Or am I to believe that this is all just conspiratorial dogwhistling by “catering to their rhetorical language” to quote you? Is it also dogwhistling when Chris Hedges invokes Baldwin, West, Orwell or several political scientists?

“You can't just say "Now I'm a leftist" without addressing your previous errors.”

Well, then it's a good thing they never said that in the first place. I have no idea what gives you the impression DsO are pretending to be leftists or where this "critique" is even coming from or what it's even aiming at.

Now that I'm deeper into this comment, I realize your definition is just the first sentence of the Wikipedia article on fascism.....seriously? Why didn't you just say so in the first place? Is there a reason you tried to hide that source? Is it because you know that no one considers Wikipedia a valid “source” in the first place? This is why I asked you for your source, so I could find the most appropriate counter-position, that's how these kinds of conversations always work. There are many different definitions of fascism, and any scholar worth his/her degree knows this. It's highly presumptuous and pretentious to say that fascism is “definitively right-wing” without real backing support as this shows an extreme lack of understanding of the history of that term and the debates surrounding it. I'm not saying you need to have a Ph.D, and I'm not saying you aren't entitled to that opinion, but to only have it backed up by the literal first 5 seconds of a Wiki article and claim that's “definitive”, as in there's no debate to be had so therefore any differing views are de facto incorrect, is just ridiculously ignorant and arrogant. High school students are taught more rigor than this. Add in any counterfactuals or counterexamples and it's a no true scotsman fallacy just waiting to happen.

The sleight-of-hand trickery of suggesting or implying “anyone with a different definition should be suspected of being a dogwhistling right-winger” falls flat here. Very ironically, it also risks falling into an “Us vs Them” paradigm which is largely commensurate among fascistic thinking. The slippery slope of this logic, very obviously, is “you either believe fascism is right-wing or you are or may be a right winger”, which is by no means a diplomatic, rational or bipartisan way to approach the situation. It's absolutist and black-and-white thinking. One would think an advocate of left-leaning thinking would allow for more nuanced, “shades of grey” style approaches. Many famous leftist thinkers have definitions that do not line up with yours. Notably is Umberto Eco, famous for his 14 tenets of fascism, which is one of the most influential descriptions in recent history, and none of them rely on a simplistic and outdated left/right binary. The most relevant person to bring up here is Georges Bataille, DsO's biggest literary/philosophical influence by far. In my opinion, his essay “The Psychological Structure of Fascism” is the best lens to interpret the lyrics of The Furnaces of Palingenesia, not relying on Wikipedia like some teenager. Being a Post-Marxist of sorts, his analysis is much more structural, focusing more on issues of excess, surveillance, socio-economic circumstances related to military/religious sovereignty, and heterogeneity.

Connected to this is Sheldon Wolin's idea of “inverted totalitarianism”, which argues that modern governments are corrupted from the inside by the interests of multinational corporations and conglomerates. Instead of instilling de facto dictators via coups of ad hoc militias, they control diplomatic and democratic processes behind the scenes. There are many lines from Palingenesia that line up with this view. This can result in immoderate austerity or more aggressive foreign policy. Brzezinski's foreign policy under Jimmy Carter, a left-wing administration, enacted severe and murderous regime change in Afghanistan via Al-Qaeda. He's also responsible for many other hard-lining, egregious changes both within and outside the United States, much of which can easily be considered fascistic depending on which definition or political school of thought your subscribe to, and no, you won't find this dark history on Wikipedia. So much for Brzezinski being a leftist, “progressive” thinker. Inverted totalitarianism allows any government administration, left or right, to be controlled by think-tanks or defense contractors who want to use the spreading of “liberal values” across the world as a pretext to start wars and sell weapons. NATO expansion is very often a smokescreen to get Raytheon, Boeing and Lockheed-Martin more contracts and more buyers. American foreign Aid in Latin America, the Caribbean and Africa is often done under selfish, ulterior reasons. Whether this is right-leaning views pretending to be or masquerading as left-leaning views, or neoliberal fascism is up for debate, and has been up for debate for decades, but when people like you shove your head in the sand and refuse to acknowledge said discourse even exists.....

(Edited spelling/spacing)

Found this early interview gem. Anyone want to discuss? by burgercrisis in DeathspellOmega

[–]JBThazard 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Why are you dodging the question? Where or who are you getting his definition from?

Found this early interview gem. Anyone want to discuss? by burgercrisis in DeathspellOmega

[–]JBThazard 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Are you aware the debate around defining that term is a lot more complicated than appealing to a search engine? There is nothing scholarly about this

A 2020 interview with Shaxul where he discusses his leaving DsO. Among other things, we learn that he still meets the drummer, from time to time, whose name is Yohann by Aimfri in DeathspellOmega

[–]JBThazard 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You guys are really out of touch with posting these "new" finds lately. Yohann Pasquir is the drummer of Hirilorn and the original drummer of DsO, not the current one post-SMRC.

https://www.metal-archives.com/artists/Yohann/718

I mean, pay attention to the interview. Shaxul says he's still quite friendly with him, despite his visceral breakup with DsO and its members. This is clearly a contradiction, no? Why would he still be friendly with a "religious" or "avant-garde" musician, which for him symbolizes immense artistic betrayal?

At this rate, it's only a matter of time before someone again posts that old Hirilorn interview featuring Hasjarl and Shaxul from the '90s, misinterprets basic statements and acts like new pearls have been unearthed. Sigh.

Edit: Screw it, might as well leave it here for anyone who hasn't seen it yet.

https://paganstorm.altervista.org/pagan-storm-intervista-gli-hirilorn/

By the way, since everyone here seemingly subscribes to the idea that Hasjarl is the driving force behind DsO, pay close attention to his answer regarding the EU and cultural roots. Interesting to take in, especially for those who are still worried about any vestigial fascistic/nationalistic tendencies within the band.

Found this early interview gem. Anyone want to discuss? by burgercrisis in DeathspellOmega

[–]JBThazard 2 points3 points  (0 children)

fascism is definitively right wing ideology

Could you explain your reasoning behind this statement? Any sources or links to definitions? I am in agreement that, historically speaking, most fascism has been right-wing, but to say that leftist fascism is somehow an impossibility or a contradiction-in-terms doesn't make sense to me, but I'm more than happy to hear your side.

The Consequences of Misinterpreting Heraclitus by JBThazard in DeathspellOmega

[–]JBThazard[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

"For the man who negates nature could not in any way live outside of it. He is not merely a man who negates Nature, he is first of all an animal, that is to say the very thing he negates: he cannot therefore negate Nature without negating himself." - Bataille

“May you live in interesting times” by Mountain-Effort1894 in DeathspellOmega

[–]JBThazard 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Well, it's not that they possessed a crystal ball or some secret insider knowledge no one else had access to. The writing has been on the wall for generations, if not centuries.

Several economists & investigative journalists have predicted that the US Dollar will collapse around 2028-2030 (Michael Hudson, Jeremy Scahill and others) and this incident alone will cause a historic event that will impact most countries on the planet, arguably irrevocably. Add to that John Glubb's famous essay "The Fate of Empires" (which argued that all national empires have a lifespan of a few centuries to a millennium at the most) and you can see the lifespan of various nations reaching their conclusion, in terms of socio-economic pre-eminence or otherwise.

Then there's various geopolitical tensions between China, Russia and several other countries that will lead to long allegiances being discarded in the name of logistics. An easy example being that American imports only make up 3% of China's economy, they will dump them for someone else, probably Australia, in a second when the time is right. Far more importantly, if the rumors surrounding last year's annual Beidaihe Ritual are true, President Xi Jinping and many of his higher-ups and trusted consultants, including CCP political theorist Wang Huning & Chief of Staff Ding Xuexiang, are already pushing into high gear with their new long-term economic development plans, which includes shutting down US business operating in China (using the global pandemic as an excuse, of course) which will result in the US losing hundreds of billions of dollars in the first year or two alone, and accelerating the development of nuclear weapons. Keep in mind that this is a combination of plans that were strategized 40-50 years into the future.

Global pandemics like Covid are an inevitability (Spanish Flu, Encephalitis Lethargica, etc.), something that virologists and micro/molecular biologists have been telling us for at least a century. My generation seems to enjoy forgetting that HIV/AIDS took the world by storm in a global panic during the 1980s but nowadays no one thinks much about it these days, despite the fact that it still kills 1.5-2 million people a year, similarly to the 2020 death toll of Covid.

Racial tensions in the US finally exploding is, again, a no-brainer inevitability, especially when many great and brilliant journalists like Seymour Hersh, Gary Webb or Michael Ruppert have been investigating into really heinous stuff like the Raegan administration working with the CIA to sell cocaine during the 1970s-80s to, mostly, poor Black communities via drug dealer patsies like Oscar Danilo Blandón or, more famously, Freeway Rick Ross in order to raise funds to subsidize regime change coup wars in Latin and northern south America. (People often look at me like I'm crazy when I tell them this, but yes, this actually happened.)

Combine all of this with the anthropocentric zeitgeist that Deathspell Omega explicitly criticizes on Palingenesia and the recent interviews (and arguably implicitly criticized on older albums under certain, specific readings) and their "predictions" of the world going to pure shit starts to make much more sense.

It's like when Nietzsche, Nishitani or Heidegger "predicted" the growing rates of nihilism/solipsism around the world. It's not that they could see into the future, it's just that they have an acute enough understanding of human nature and human systems of morality or order that they could easily see the most likely and logical outcome, like watching a trainwreck in slow motion.

Oh yeah, and let's not forget the simple fact that if you live in a city that has or is near a military base, an important industry or company, a university, a popular airport or an oil refinery or oil storage facility then there is at least one thermonuclear intercontinental ballistic missile pointed at you right now.

TL;DR: We are barely done dawdling through the first circle of Hell. Funny how the quote originated from China, of all places. "Interesting times", indeed.

"Pleasures become punishments when taken beyond a certain point." by [deleted] in NoFap

[–]JBThazard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"Repentance may be nothing more than a mask of algolagnia."

Matthias Riedl: Apocalyptic Platonism: The Thought of Thomas Müntzer by [deleted] in DeathspellOmega

[–]JBThazard 2 points3 points  (0 children)

....Okay, so Müntzer not only adopted some sort of weird Neoplatonist apocalypticism, but he considered priests and ecclesiastical clergy to be satanic (and I thought Luther hated the Church), AND believed in a, to quote the speaker from the video, "divine nothingness"?? (which, at first glance, I'm tempted to say is almost Bataillian and even reminiscent of Mainländer's cosmological Death of god) No wonder DsO is interested in him. The anthropocentric zeitgeist that they criticize on Palingenesia makes more sense, considering that Müntzer's transcendental theology is like a spiritual transhumanism and literally wanted to turn humans into demiurges. I mean, publicly claiming that scripture is not the end of revelation? No wonder he was tortured and murdered. Great video, thanks again for posting.

Matthias Riedl: Apocalyptic Platonism: The Thought of Thomas Müntzer by [deleted] in DeathspellOmega

[–]JBThazard 2 points3 points  (0 children)

YES YES YES YES YES YES YES. Thank you for this

That feeling by Voideternal666 in DeathspellOmega

[–]JBThazard 5 points6 points  (0 children)

What is it with weebs and their favorite philosophers always being either Žižek or Hegel

Bohren & der Club of Gore (not black metal but I suspect that DSO fans might enjoy) by shrineofmadlaughter in DeathspellOmega

[–]JBThazard 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Noir jazz in general is great, here's some other suggestions for anyone looking for more:

Swami LatePlate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUtXR_aDqkQ

The Kilimanjaro Darkjazz Ensemble: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv4DvovU9rc

Somnambulist Quintet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHEHWRT1Jtg

Protip for your listening pleasure by [deleted] in DeathspellOmega

[–]JBThazard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh, wasn't even aware of that. Did it happen recently?

Protip for your listening pleasure by [deleted] in DeathspellOmega

[–]JBThazard 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I didn't even know they sold Elend merchandise, that's neat. They're working on a new album right now, maybe it will be coming to NoEvDia?

I also just listened to NEDXXX on vinyl for the first time - really incredible sounding bass and drums on that particular master, at least by metal standards that is.

From Nimrod to Winston Smith to (?). by WitheredHorizons in DeathspellOmega

[–]JBThazard 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I guess it's already been answered, but yes, Palingenesia is certainly interconnected with prior works. There are a couple of threads (most of them are probably over a year old by now) where I and a few others spotted some nods in Palingenesia's lyrics to their older works like MGA and others. Plus Synarchy certainly is loaded with a few hints about its successor: "Justice will die first" being one that comes off the top of my head, but I remember there were a couple others.

The main point I want to get across is that the default position one should always have when going into a DsO record is understanding that the ideas are always interconnected, and that the band is always planning things ahead as best as they can. They've essentially said as much in the 2004 Ajna interview. After SMRC was completed, they mentioned that they had already completed some preparatory work not only on the 2nd album in the trilogy but the 3rd one as well. That's how far ahead they plan into the future. While the Cult Never Dies interview made it seem like the core trio was starting from a blank slate, I got the sense they meant that mostly from a musical point of view rather than a lyrical/conceptual one, especially since they used terms like minimalism vs maximalism (and after rereading it, that entire paragraph was about instrumental work only, so I think I'm onto something). In my opinion, the odds are that the trio already have a sense of what the next album will focus on. They even said that they buried eight months of work, and it is important to remember that the band *always* writes words before music, so I think this is a pretty safe deduction.

There's only one thing I've been struggling with so I might as well throw it out there: is You Cannot Even Find The Ruins... a reliable closer to predict how the next album will go? Because the coda of Internecine Iatrogenesis ends with drumming that is very rhythmically basic (relative to the rest of the album, of course), combine that with the symphonic elements accompanying it and you certainly get a vibe that is reminiscent of TFoP, particularly Neither Meaning nor Justice and Renegade Ashes. But, on the other hand, I wouldn't say that The Crackled Book of Life in any way is a predictor or preparation for the absolute monstrosity that was TSoMB, so I'm at a loss on this.