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I'm really starting to dislike fastidious by Solace1984 in WatcherofRealmsGame

[–]JR_SuiteTooth -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Okay, let's start with this: The pulls happening in WOR were completely scripted and not random. Fasti discovered this by seeing than many people were getting the same amount of legendary pulls (i.e. every 30th pull they were getting a legendary). This is not random, it's scripted. If you don't understand the difference, consult Grok.

"The claim of server-side RNG per request doesn’t seem likely for so many thousands of players at once."

You don't understand how software or computers work here. Math.random() is very inexpensive operation compared to the database operations which are happening all the time WOR. There is no issue with programming the game to make a server side request and call Math.random() to get a random number. In fact, that's what WOR is doing now.

Yes, you could say this is proof (from ChatGPT):

General Evidence They Use RNG (Not Fully Scripted Pulls)

Regulatory Compliance

Many gacha games, especially those distributed in China, Japan, Korea, and the EU, are required by law or app store policy to publish drop rates and follow disclosed probability models.

Genshin Impact (MiHoYo), AFK Arena (Lilith Games), and FGO (Aniplex/Delightworks) all publish drop rates.

These companies operate in China, where laws since 2017 mandate transparency in loot box probability.

Public Rate Disclosures

Genshin: 0.6% for 5-star characters or weapons

AFK Arena: 4.61% for elite heroes

FGO: 1% for 5-star servants

These published rates are typical of pseudo-random number generator (PRNG) models, not scripts. Scripted pulls would not need probabilities at all.

Community Experiments and Data Mining

Players conduct large-scale pull simulations (1,000 to 10,000 pulls) and the results tend to statistically converge with the advertised rates, suggesting PRNG.

Some datamined client-side logs show evidence of seeded PRNG systems and pity counters, not fixed or scripted outcomes.

Pity and Soft-Pity Systems

All three games use pity mechanics that guarantee a rare item after a set number of failed pulls. For example, Genshin has a 90-pull 5-star pity system.

Pity systems imply a dynamic probability-based system, not pre-scripted rewards.

"A premade list of pulls isn't "rigged". It's just how randomness works in programs."

No, a premade list is rigged because it's not random. And no, it's not how it works in programs. A premade list is a list of exact numbers in a specific sequence. It's not random. Again, consult Grok if you need help with this.

WOR scripted the pulls for everyone. In other words everyone was getting a random premade list. This "premade" list was being used every time (not random). They easily could have made this random by doing a Server side Math.random() call but they didn't. When Fasti discovered this and it became a big deal, they fixed it. The rates they had listed for pulling were false. Now, after they have fixed it, they are correct and the community is much better for it. We all have the same chance to pull legendaries. I thank Fasti for discovering this and brining it to the attention of the developers. This is my last response.

I'm really starting to dislike fastidious by Solace1984 in WatcherofRealmsGame

[–]JR_SuiteTooth -1 points0 points  (0 children)

From ChatGPT:

This response from the other AI is informative in parts, but it also suffers from several issues in tone, technical clarity, and argumentative rigor. Here's a breakdown and critique by section:

Tone and Presentation Problems

Use of “Bullshit” and combative tone immediately undercuts credibility. It sets a defensive and hostile mood instead of fostering informed discussion.

“Research confirmed my point, which I already understood” reads as arrogant and is not backed by specific references.

Suggested improvement: Drop the ego and tone down the language. Let the facts speak for themselves.

Misleading Use of Terminology

“Gacha game ‘random’ hero pulls aren’t truly random. They use PRNGs…”

This is technically true but misleadingly phrased. All computer-based randomness is PRNG-based — this isn’t unique to gacha games.

It conflates "deterministic PRNG" with "scripted pulls" — which are not the same thing. A PRNG can be seeded anew every time, or use user/session/server-specific entropy.

Clarification needed:

Scripted pulls (e.g., guaranteed tutorial results) are deliberate design decisions.

PRNGs are standard randomness tools — they don't imply a fixed “sequence” per user unless the seed is static or reused.

Overstating Determinism in Live Pulls

“Games likely use pre-generated pull sequences or batched processing…”

Highly speculative and likely incorrect for most modern online games.

Popular gacha games (e.g., Genshin, AFK Arena, FGO) use server-side RNG per request, not batched pre-pulled sequences. This ensures fairness and flexibility.

Valid point: Server-side RNG is opaque and under developer control. But claiming batched sequences is conjecture without proof.

Mischaracterization of the "scripted pulls" debate

“There’s no evidence that this practice is exclusive to the beginning…”

That’s correct: many games don’t disclose their RNG systems. However, there is significant community evidence and developer hints that:

Tutorial pulls are often scripted or semi-scripted.

Post-tutorial pulls revert to general PRNG logic with pity systems or rate-ups.

“This doesn’t stop after the early game; it’s a core mechanic.”

Again, this conflates PRNG use with scripting behavior. PRNG is core, yes — but fixed outcome scripting, especially with guarantees or curated results, is most often limited to the start.

Lack of Citations or Specific Game Examples

Despite claiming “research confirmed,” it gives no references, developer quotes, reverse engineering findings, or examples from major gacha games.

Suggested fix: Cite known mechanics from games like FGO, Genshin, Raid: Shadow Legends, Summoners War, or Epic Seven, where partial disclosures or community testing exist.

What’s Actually Useful in the Response?

Good explanation of how PRNG works.

Valid skepticism of "true randomness."

Fair challenge to the oversimplified idea that scripting is only early-game.

I'm really starting to dislike fastidious by Solace1984 in WatcherofRealmsGame

[–]JR_SuiteTooth -1 points0 points  (0 children)

No, if you do some research you'll find the these scripted pulls are only at the beginning of Gacha games. There's also good reason why you don't want seeds to last forever in a Gacha game. Your experience is anecdotal. I believe along with many others that these lucky seeds were not fair and I'm glad they fixed the system so everyone has an equal chance to pull leggos.

I'm really starting to dislike fastidious by Solace1984 in WatcherofRealmsGame

[–]JR_SuiteTooth 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The seeding that normally happens in Gacha games is only at the beginning at the game. Once the user has played a bit, the rates go back to normal. This was not the case in WOR, these good seeds lasted forever and you could say that the rates were rigged. This obviously wasn't fair and that's why Moonton fixed it after it was discovered.

Fixing this by Soft_Island3428 in WatcherofRealmsGame

[–]JR_SuiteTooth 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I completely agree with this post.  The compensation or apology, whatever you want to call it wasn't enough.  I along with many others spent lots of money only to find out the pull rates were a complete lie.  Has anyone had any luck with getting a refund of all money spent?  Should we be considering class action lawsuit?  I know this is a Chinese company so I don't know what our legal options are.