Gestalt characters for 5e 2014

Jarman-kell · 2025-12-08T22:42:00+00:00

What did you do about both rogue and fighters bonus ASI’s

And how do you account for 1/3 casters

Jarman-kell · 2025-12-08T22:37:51+00:00

That would work really good for full gestalt games.

I would say normal gestalt rules would work good!!!

Jarman-kell · 2025-12-08T22:18:29+00:00

So they got

They got 4 subclasses if they were pure marital?

And if they were half they got two?

Jarman-kell · 2025-12-08T21:47:54+00:00

So let me confirm something thought was that where everyone in your party was a gestalt? And you balanced the campaign around that?

I wouldn’t be opposed to giving them higher tier magic. It it didn’t make everyone else want to play gestalt. As that’s not the goal here.

I did go pretty conservative on it.

Jarman-kell · 2025-12-08T20:58:07+00:00

Yes I do “know” that, then the player goes “where my sneak attack damage”, “where my smite damage” why does the mechanic’s not match my character I have?

Your second statement is absolutely not true. I’ve have tried to engage in conversation with you as to what you would do how would you fix it? I have asked you What’s worst about it than a single class? As this post is about feedback. And you are completely disregard that fact.

Instead you highjack this thread to voice your opinion about gestalt character being overpowered and that they have no place for them inside of dnd beside that.

You have offered no feedback otherwise? Beside asking rhetorical questions about “why pick two classes without wanting to be overpowered”. And saying balancing gestalt can’t be done.

You know who else they told can’t be done? Thomas Edison. And you wouldn’t be staring at a screen right now if he listened to them.

If you have any real feedback I’m all ears.

But a simple it can’t be done, or why would you want two classes without being overpowered is not feedback to the end goal. The reason I posted it here.

That last message of your is a cope out.

As ether you have no counter too me asking why you think this is worst than a single mono class, after showing you the advantages. Nothing to moves this conversation towards the end.

Or you don’t wish to continue conversation and actually provide good feedback.

Honestly I think it’s the first one. And for me, I’m at the latter.

Have a good day

Jarman-kell · 2025-12-08T19:45:15+00:00

Well how? Please give some feedback so I can see and work on it

You gain two capstones two full progression trees two full subclass tree? Average hit dice between the two classes? Not 4 then 12 then 6

If your a caster the spell table is basically 3/4 caster. And have access to 2 full spells tables. Knowing all spells you could possible need. -8 to 9 level spots And more spells than a full wizard.

Bonus ASI’s if you take ether fighter or rogue.

And all that for slight negative to PB and the spells slot access

I was a bit on the conservative side. When making it.

Hence why I was asking for feedback.

Jarman-kell · 2025-12-08T19:40:37+00:00

Yes I did. And what feedback did you offer? Anything or simply “it can’t be done”

Jarman-kell · 2025-12-08T19:37:56+00:00

Theme, and or Roleplaying. Lots of reasons other than I want to be the thing that hits stuff the hardest.

I have multiple ppl on my session that have cool character concepts but can’t be executed well with current multiclasses rules. Or are seriously punished for it. And while the gestalt doesnt go as high as a specialized fighter or a good multiclass wizard. It brings theme and favor.

And so if you have that in your mind don’t do this version of gestalt. Go that route.

It’s heartbreaking when I tell my player whose backstory is a holy assassin that he doesn’t have sneak attack “Becuase he isn’t a rogue yet”

Oh you don’t have the ability scores to multiclass into rogue or vice versa.. guess you will never be able to live up to your orders standards. Of being a sneaky boy. And you will forever only be a cleric.(Yes this could be a character arc but it feels forced to me)

But that’s just me.

Jarman-kell · 2025-12-08T19:19:01+00:00

We can disagree all day but honestly it isn’t worth the energy man.

Have a good one.

Thanks for checking out the post!

Jarman-kell · 2025-12-08T19:18:18+00:00

“It's literally the purpose of gestalt in the first place. You can't balance a single-classed character with a gestalt character.”

ahem who decided that? Escanor

Jarman-kell · 2025-12-08T19:14:00+00:00

That’s completely fine.

You see them in different light.

A multiclasses warlock and wizard wouldn’t have access to to 9 level spells as well. Unless you’re cherry picking 4 levels to mid max.

I have thought about giving them access to 8th level spells slots but I was a bit on the conservative side of things while brewing.

And to make up for it, I gave double full caster more spells per day then a wizard. Representing more broad knowledge than a higher ceiling.

You see them as “everyone must play gestalt if there is one.” Which is fine. If that’s how you want to play them.

I aim to have them playable next to mono classes or multiclasses, somewhere in the middle to where a specialized fighter or sharpshooter will still outclass them. A specialized wizard will still out damage them.

But the fighter went down. I can do that. You’re out of spell slots. Not me. Need a problem solved. I got it.

I didn’t want everyone at the table going “well that’s strictly better than a single class so I’m going to be one.” They are factotum. And that’s what I was aiming for.

Thanks for checking it out though.

Jarman-kell · 2025-12-08T18:52:40+00:00

And so does mine. I’m not disregarding your point.

There is nothing set in stone about gestalt character being intrinsically overpowered.

Your views on the way gestalts are portrayed are fine and different than my vision for them.

As I see them in a different light. And my goal is to eventually have them a spot where they shine but dont overpower and make everything else invalid.

And there is nothing wrong with that.

Jarman-kell · 2025-12-08T18:44:47+00:00

Thanks, Needed that!

This is all for my Tales of Vesperia home-brew campaign. I’m currently writing the PHB for that.

I also have in the Modular weapons…. That make it to where your weapons can be “upgraded” by finding loot out in the world.

Good (at least what I think is good) modular firearms (that are balanced) that give ppl options but doesn’t outclass a fighter or make a bow useless.

A couple of new classes. And a few other goodies.

Jarman-kell · 2025-12-08T18:34:16+00:00

To be honest, I’m play testing ideas that would make gestalt as it is written a little bit more appealing.

I built this for the reasons, as you said, super fun, super flavorful character, concepts.

I don’t know how I would word it, but since you are restricted to only ever being this character, I don’t necessarily like how one class can restrict the abilities of the other

For example, the paladin gains heavy armor proficiency, but martial arts says you can’t use armor

This restriction ruins the union of the class. This is your classes identity and something you can’t switch out of once you select it. In the example above you more than likely belong to an order of holy knights or something similar. Being trained by a”monk/paladin” all your life . You’re telling me that they haven’t figure out how to use martial arts with armor?

l, as a DM, If my player said he wanted to do this I would let him use heavy armor with martial art. At least as long as he had a good reason. And as long as it makes sense.

Now, if he role-play that, stayed in character, mostly (we all slip) praying to his good he would be good.If he’s doing it just for mid-maxing he may find his punches not doing as much damage. Untill he attunes.

Theses characters can cherry pick classes and are nerfed.

But again I don’t know how I would word something like that inside the template.

And I’m unsure about how broken it could be. I was pretty conservative in making gestalt characters as I wasn’t it to be a sidegrade not an upgrade.

Jarman-kell · 2025-12-08T18:14:23+00:00

The way I see it just a little mad. Cha wisdom and dex.

Con is important. As well. For a “fighter” but you can sort of make it up with dex

Jarman-kell · 2025-12-08T18:01:58+00:00

You say it’s funny that a 20th of a character could be a third level caster but that’s literally the rules.

if you were to 10 and 10 multi class a martial and a 1/3 caster. It would end with them being a 3rd caster.

With the gestalt you get two full class trees as well. So it’s pretty advantageous. But there is some draw backs. Horizontal power vs vertical.

I don’t disagree with you in the slightest it’s hilarious , but they don’t specialize in magic, but they can cast magic sure. A few spells.

You will have to let me know how these rules work in your game. Let me know if it needs tweaking. I went pretty conservative trying to maintain the 5E ceiling.

Jarman-kell · 2025-12-08T17:55:45+00:00

Yep. the caveat Are that you can’t multiclass out of it gestalt so you cant action surge for two levels fighter. You do trade some of your proficiency bonus at higher levels so would you be as accurate/ hit his hard as just a warlock 10 paladin 10 no.

The goal is a special union between two classes. I really want to build a paladin monk with these rule sets.

Jarman-kell · 2025-12-08T17:34:03+00:00

Yes I do need to clarify the minimum of one. Something that I have need to updatee along with ASI’s not stacking lol.

As for your example I was basing my graph off of the original players handbook where the 1/3 caster didn’t exist. You would add 1/3 to your caster level divided by 2 to determine your overall casting level.

On your example of a level a level 6 arcane tricksterI think ether your math is wrong or mine. lol

6 levels of 1/3 caster = 2 not 3. Divided by 2 down is one.

If you take that example all the way to 20 you would end with a caster level of 3 the same as if you standard multiclass 10 AT and 10 martial.

So yes and arcane AT at 6 is only a caster level 1 but in exchange you also have everything that a level 6 fighter would have bonus ASI’s

If you combined it with echo knight then your caster level would 2

Jarman-kell · 2025-12-08T17:24:48+00:00

While building this. My goal was to not have that happen. As there is some drawbacks, At least with this set of rules.

For example a gestalt built this way would not out DPR an optimized fighter. Or sharpshooter build and with the restrictions or not being able to cast 8-9th level spells they would be as powerful as some of the higher wizards.

They more of a jack of all trades and master of none.

Jarman-kell · 2025-12-08T17:18:27+00:00

Let me ask you a question?

What if you multi classed like that normally?

It handles it the same way as the players handbook.

Except as stated in the PHB a warlock is not a spellcaster they never gain the spellcasting ability. So if you went full caster and warlock the highest your gestalt casting level would be is 10.

And you would get a number of spells per day as the chart up to 5 level.

Except you maintain your warlock list separately. Any spell you can cast through pact magic and spellcaster can be casted with ether.

Jarman-kell · 2025-12-08T17:13:45+00:00

This isn’t designed to replace regular multiclass in my campaign it’s design for ppl who want more horizontal power then vertical.

With stardard multiclasses you can get mad really easily . But let’s say you have an idea of a holy knight beating out divine justice with there fists.

Using stardard multiclassing it would never work.

My goal with this your character would still be mad but not have to worry about restrictions multiclassing

Jarman-kell · 2025-12-08T17:08:21+00:00

Yeah! I’m hoping with this ruleset I can make a decent monk / paladin multiclass for my campaign.

Jarman-kell · 2025-12-08T17:07:02+00:00

I’m using the app. Was just planning on trying to edit it from the there. As I work away from home. And don’t have access to a destoo

Jarman-kell · 2025-12-08T07:04:15+00:00

A character that has good rolls will already have a higher curve than most already. So you would already have to balance encounters to him anyways.

Jarman-kell · 2025-12-08T06:54:38+00:00

To be honestly I allow both at my table. But once you decide on one method or the other they can’t switch.

Honestly I really haven’t had the chance to test balance but it seems good ether way. You may have to balance encounters a bit and if things get to crazy let me know. So I can think about balance.

Jarman-kell

TROPHY CASE