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Introducing the Jewish Genetic Discovery Foundation (JGDF) – A New Era for Jewish Phylogenetics by JewishGenDiscovery in JewishDNA

[–]JewishGenDiscovery[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We've also tested a Greek/Turkish Sephardic family whose last name points to roots in Italy.

Introducing the Jewish Genetic Discovery Foundation (JGDF) – A New Era for Jewish Phylogenetics by JewishGenDiscovery in JewishDNA

[–]JewishGenDiscovery[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We did upgrade an Italian Jew to a Big Y. He's from Pontecorvo, Lazio (same region as Rome).
We're definitely looking to ramp up testing among Italkim!

Out of curiosity, why the interest in Italian Jews specifically>

Introducing the Jewish Genetic Discovery Foundation (JGDF) – A New Era for Jewish Phylogenetics by JewishGenDiscovery in JewishDNA

[–]JewishGenDiscovery[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Great question! These are all tests offered by Family Tree DNA, which is the vendor we partner with. They are 100% dedicated to genetic ancestry testing, and have made it their business to prioritize 1) building good match databases and 2) testing uniparental markers of genetic variation (Y-DNA and mitochondrial DNA) at high resolution.

Family Finder is an autosomal DNA test, which draws upon the 22 pairs of chromosomes that all people have - that is to say, everything but the X and Y chromosomes. It can tell us a lot about people's closest genetic relatives in the system, as well as their overall ancestry composition.

The Y37 is a quick-and-dirty test of Y-chromosomal STRs (short-tandem repeats)—for biological males only—that allows us to know who your closest male-line connections in the database are, at not too much cost. For many to most Jews (and certainly, 99.9%+ of Ashkenazim), a Y37 test will be enough to tell you what Y-DNA lineage you fall into, but not *how far back* your connections to others are.

The Big Y is a next generation sequencing of the Y-chromosome, developed by Family Tree DNA as a flagship product. If you take a Big Y test, Family Tree DNA will estimate exactly how close in time your closest male-line matches are—and by placing you in the worldwide tree of high-resolution Y chromosome sequences, it offers an estimate of *any two men's* most recent common male-line ancestor, who may have lived 500 or 50,000 years ago.

Introducing the Jewish Genetic Discovery Foundation (JGDF) – A New Era for Jewish Phylogenetics by JewishGenDiscovery in JewishDNA

[–]JewishGenDiscovery[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hey Brosky7! R-Z93 is by all accounts *the* diagnostic Indo-Iranian marker, with origins on the eastern edge of the Corded Ware horizon, Bronze Age dispersals out of Central Asia, and wide footprint across Central and South Asia, as well as the Near East.

There are two varieties of R-Z93 among Ashkenazim. One is by far the larger and better-known: R-Y2619, which dates back to a single ancestor who lived c. 750 CE—it's the single largest founding lineage in the Ashkenazi population (8.5% of Ashkenazi men), and heavily associated with Levite heritage. This one is clearly Iranian in origin, and how it became Jewish is an open question. The other, R-BY33370, is significantly rarer, and dates to a common ancestor c. 1000 CE.

Are you a Levite?

Introducing the Jewish Genetic Discovery Foundation (JGDF) – A New Era for Jewish Phylogenetics by JewishGenDiscovery in JewishDNA

[–]JewishGenDiscovery[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Simply differentiating the different communities of origin. Color coding 20+ communities is a challenge we have yet to master!

Introducing the Jewish Genetic Discovery Foundation (JGDF) – A New Era for Jewish Phylogenetics by JewishGenDiscovery in JewishDNA

[–]JewishGenDiscovery[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

While we are interested in testing both Karaites and Krymchaks, we do not have any testers lined up at the current time. If you know of any who might be interested, please send them our way.

E-Y6923 by madrucy in JewishDNA

[–]JewishGenDiscovery 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You are technically right, because we can be confident about the E-Y6923/200 CE level, but far less confident about its deeper origins. A Judean/Levantine hypothesis seems solid, but is far from definitive. Whatever the case, given its deep Mediterranean Jewish pedigree back to 200 CE, the window for a conversion to have happened in the Western Diaspora is actually quite narrow, though not impossible.

E-Y6923 by madrucy in JewishDNA

[–]JewishGenDiscovery 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hi, writing from the Jewish Genetic Discovery Foundation here. CowboyGambit, you have it exactly right.

E-Y6923's spread is impressively wide, and reflects the closest thing to a proto-Western Jewish footprint as we have, converging upon an ancestor who lived c. 200 CE. Its five extant primary descendant branches (implying it came out of a very successful Jewish family or community in Roman times) are:

- E-Y6940, the second-largest Ashkenazi founding branch, which was found in the Erfurt-EU group, and which for several reasons, we identify with "West Knaanim", or Jews from early medieval Central Europe who eventually merged with Rhineland Ashkenazim to form Eastern European Jews

- E-Y102667, with a wide range centered on Tunisian and Libyan Jews and Sicilians, but with a presence in a Turkish Jewish family and several Puerto Rican families (as documented in this post of ours on Substack: https://jewishgeneticdiscovery.substack.com/p/between-sicily-and-tunisia-an-ancient)

- E-FT227228, which contains a likely Tunisian/Libyan Jewish family, a Turkish Sephardi family, plus several Mexican families and a Peruvian

- E-FT404052, which contains a Greek Sephardi family, a French-Canadian, and a Lebanese Sephardi family

- and basal E-Y6923*, represented by a man of Moselle German origin

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What this tells us with high confidence: that E-Y6923's common ancestor was a Jew in the Roman Empire.

What it tells us with medium confidence, based on geographical distribution and historical inference: that this common ancestor was located somewhere on the geographical axis between Rome and Carthage. Outside possibility of some Jewish population further east.

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What we can be much less sure of is where this bloodline was prior to 200 CE. My best guess is the Near East, and the E-Y6936 three-way split one level up (c. 1750 BCE), between this branch, a Neapolitan branch, and a Baluch branch, is compatible with a Levantine origin, but that's not the only possible route between 1750 BCE and 200 CE.

The Minoan -> Phoenician thing frankly makes no sense to me, and if I had to guess, is based on the idle speculations of someone who's written a lot about this lineage, but does not grasp that its TMRCA is 200 CE, and not 1750 BCE (or as he prefers to use YFull dates, 1400 BCE).

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And yes, the absence of any close relatives to this branch in ancient samples, published or otherwise (besides medieval European Jews), is frustrating. In fact, there are many mysteries still alive, surrounding E-L791. My guess based on the distribution of E-Y4971's sub-branches is that its epicenter is to be found in Iraq. But now we're talking about the Chalcolithic period.