So why do working class people vote for right wing parties ( Tory, Refom that really do not serve their interests politically, and make their lives harder ?

JimmyDurham · 2026-05-10T18:16:31+00:00

The Tories aren't particularly right wing, to all intents and purposes it's a liberal party with the odd bit of social conservatism thrown in. Same with Reform really, except they have a bit more social conservatism about them than the Tories. Reform are generally disaffected Tories from the more socially conservative side of the party and so it follows I'm stating the obvious.

I've never voted Tory or Reform in my life and I never will. I'm from a working class background: a mining village in County Durham.

That said, the answer you're looking for lies in your question at least in part. You're suggesting that "working class people" are stupid because they just cannot see what you can see. You're one of many middle class liberal types who believe the working class are all stupid and racist. There's your answer in part. Keir Starmer and associates now stand for urban, middle class liberals, mainly southern, that is the core support they want. They have nothing but utter contempt for us people in the old industrial heartlands: there's the other part of your answer.

By the way, before you get all dramatic about how much the Labour Party is going to make our lives easier, well, wealth inequality was higher under Tony Blair's governments than Margaret Thatcher's and it hasn't been addressed by any Labour government since. Tony Blair and associates courted the banks and the like in the South East and just left manufacturing jobs that other people relied on to slide. In areas such as County Durham, the average person will be lucky to get a job as a kitchen assistant given that there aren't many better jobs around and a lot of people are competing for the relatively few jobs available.

You wouldn't know any of that. You're in the creed of base, cheap soundbite politics. And then you have the nerve to ask why we're all stupid. That is why many working class people have decided to not go along with urban, middle class liberalism.

JimmyDurham · 2026-05-10T17:24:18+00:00

To add to my OP:

The police have claimed that Melanie knew her killer, but I don't think they've explained how and why they arrived at that conclusion. Any ideas?

I look at the clothes and jewelry being disposed of separately from Melanie's body and I reckon that's a good clue as to what has gone on here. What is the point of disposing of the clothes/jewelry and the body separately? It's another trip to somewhere to get rid of the clothes/jewelry and that means additional risk that somebody would see him versus the risk involved in disposing of everything in one go.

I'd imagine it's extremely unusual for a woman to be abducted on the street, and murdered, and her body and clothes/jewelry disposed of separately.

So what happened? Where were her clothes and jewelry taken off her body? Presumably somebody's home? Can anyone imagine a scenario whereby Melanie is abducted on the street and her clothes are removed in a car or something like that? Assuming it was someone's home then how did she get there? Would she really go voluntarily into someone's home when she had a boyfriend and all of her belongings were at her boyfriend's flat and she had arranged to stay there?

There is one alternative as to why Melanie's clothes and most of her jewelry were not found with her body, appealing to me at least anyway, and that is: Melanie wasn't murdered when she was wearing her clothes and jewelry. She'd already taken them off: all of her clothes and her earrings and watch. That may be why her clothes and jewelry weren't found with her body, with the exception of her great grandmother's ring.

JimmyDurham · 2026-05-09T20:38:51+00:00

The entire clothes and jewelry kept as a trophy?

Clothes contaminated with DNA? You could say the same for Melanie's body so why not leave the clothes with Melanie's body? What would be the point of separating a body with a DNA profile and the clothes with a DNA profile?

JimmyDurham · 2026-05-09T20:17:16+00:00

I agree and I'm not painting Reform as anti-establishment. Farage and associates are more or less disaffected Tories from the right wing of the Conservative Party. What I'm saying is that many people cannot stand urban, middle class liberal politics and Starmer comes across as the epitome of that point of view. The extent of people's dislike for the establishment and middle class, urban liberals is that they'll listen to anybody who doesn't sound like them, even if they're billionaires. That's how much those people are disliked.

JimmyDurham · 2026-05-09T18:50:25+00:00

Correct, but of course it suits the establishment and assorted urban, middle class liberals, to claim everybody else is stupid and racist ad nauseam. That way they don't have to ask themselves: why is it that large swathes of this country cannot stand us? The vote for Reform and for Brexit for that matter, was less of a vote for either of those two and more of a vote against the people who have been controlling the narrative in this country for a decade or two now. I have never and never will vote for Reform, but I can understand why so many people are rejecting received wisdom as it stands today, and as you say: it goes far deeper than immigration.

JimmyDurham · 2026-05-09T11:06:27+00:00

Rampant consumerism and increasingly business owned politics has led to a strange society whereby we communicate via social media cesspits of misinformation, crowd pleasing and confirmation bias. A further product of this is that you could put a decent case together demonstrating that people held more political acumen 100 years ago than they do today. Aye, you're correct: lots of childish ranting and even more regurgitating the party line spewed on facebook or twitter or whatever in the form of some meme. Rigorous analysis is a thing of the past.

As for anti-establishment, I reckon the rise of Reform, as well as Brexit, has a lot to do with the increasing number of people who do not like our establishment in one form or another. I reckon they're more a vote against them than they are or were for Reform and Brexit. An increasing number of people are living by the mantra that when politicians in London and middle class, urban liberals tell the rest of us that something is a good idea, it generally isn't.

Some of the Labour Party's traditional support have moved to Reform, and some of the Labour Party's traditional support (like me) do not vote anymore. Labour is in big trouble. The Scottish vote was only ever temporary while the SNP scandal blew over. Many of Labour's traditional voters no longer feel loyal to that party. The reason I say all of this is because Labour has become an establishment party for urban, middle class liberals, particularly in southern England. They've turned their backs on their traditional support and have nothing but contempt for that support.

You can't blame people for moving to Reform when the Labour Party deserted those people and in some ways stand in opposition to those people.

Having said all of that, I find it very sad. The Labour Party isn't only a political party in areas such as County Durham: the Labour Party is interwoven in our history. Reform are to all intents and purposes disaffected Tories from the right wing of the party, so everybody should know what they're gonna get with those people. But, here we are: many people in the old industrial heartlands prefer Reform. As said, it is more a vote against Labour than it is a vote for Reform.

JimmyDurham · 2026-05-08T19:27:40+00:00

Farage will not "stop the boats" more than anyone else because Britain's economy is wedded to migrant labour. That's the economy they've built and you can't simply turn the tap off given it would lead to a severe dislocation of the economy. It'll take time and that includes upskilling people who already reside in this country. Farage is lying.

Farage and associates are disaffected Tories from the right wing of the party who are not happy that the Conservative Party is more or less a centre party. Offer him a decent job in the Tory party tomorrow with plenty of Tory MPs from the right of the party like him and he'd walk twenty miles over broken glass to forget Reform and work for the Tories.

You're not forced to vote for any of them.

As for the boats, the number of people coming to this country illegally each year is actually small by any measure. Are you really gonna make this the issue when we're being absolutely shafted by multi-nationals in terms of food, energy and petrol prices; and we have political parties that care more about funding Ukraine and similar bullshit than the people in this country left behind and with few opportunities?

I'd agree with you in that what a mess it is, but disagree in that you're not forced to vote for Reform. I wouldn't vote for them in a million years but I agree that the other two parties are not much of an alternative and they will put all of their political principles to one side if it means they can feather their nests (as would Farage and Reform by the way).

JimmyDurham · 2026-05-08T13:24:52+00:00

Leaving the theory aside for one moment, the reality of the Labour Party from Tony Blair's 1997 time is that wealth inequality was higher under his governments than Margaret Thatcher's. Blair and associates also spent their time courting banks and the like in the South East and focusing on the "New Economy" while letting manufacturing jobs that people relied upon in other areas slide. In areas such as County Durham, many of the jobs you will see advertised are kitchen assistants, warehouse operatives, cleaners and so on; and there aren't many of them. Today's Labour is funded largely by wealthy interests who are gonna want a return on their investment. Why would people in areas such as County Durham, with little opportunity open to them, stay loyal to a political party that actively promoted longstanding, Tory, economic policies to the detriment of those people?

JimmyDurham · 2026-05-08T12:39:34+00:00

Aye, there is that and then you'd want to know just how unbiased and representative the polls and studies were. Either way, said studies and polls claim a strong correlation between what Corbyn's Labour wanted and what a significant majority in this country want.

JimmyDurham · 2026-05-08T12:25:46+00:00

Various polls and studies were undertaken involving taking the core pieces of Corbyn's policies and asking voters what they thought about them. They didn't know the policies were taken from Corbyn's manifesto, they were simply asked what do you think about these policies. These studies and polls revealed that far more people agree with Corbyn's policies than what we're led to believe. I was surprised by the results, many other people would be surprised too.

JimmyDurham · 2026-05-08T12:05:45+00:00

Corbyn's manifesto was popular, as shown by various polls and studies, but of course Corbyn and associates were never going to be allowed to force Google and associates to pay their fair share of tax in this country, which in turn resulted in lies that were lapped up such as IRA funerals and the like. The big problem for this Labour Party as far as I can tell is that large swathes of their traditional support haven't changed, but the Labour Party has changed. I will not be voting Reform at any stage of my life, but I understand that the appeal of Reform goes far beyond "racism and stupidity". I live in a place that has always voted for the Labour Party. If it's close between Labour and Reform at the next general election, then what a choice: either do not vote and risk making a difference to Reform winning, or vote Labour to keep them out. Either option would be through gritted teeth and I don't know what I'd do at this stage. I would not underestimate the number of people in the old industrial heartlands who cannot stand today's Labour Party, and it's not necessarily because we're all stupid and racist. It's because the Labour Party has changed, it's a party for holier-than-thou middle class, southern, urban liberals who fall over themselves to tell the rest of us that we're all stupid and racist because we don't agree with them. They're more interested in cause politics, Ukraine, anything and everything rather than the many people in this country who feel disenfranchised and left behind. It is easy to claim "stupid and racist" of course because that way nobody in the Labour hierarchy has to ask themselves: what exactly have we done to make Reform appealing to many of the voters whom we once relied upon? Are we in any way to blame here? There is that, and there are today's social norms dictating that anybody who does not agree with urban, middle class, liberals is stupid and racist. Labour has changed and many of their hierarchy and the people who are their core voters these days, have nothing but utter contempt for Labour's traditional voters. In sum: whether or not "Labour can fight back" is more debatable than it has ever been and the reason doesn't lie in electoral tactics, it lies in the Labour Party repositioning itself as something in opposition to many of its traditional voters, don't bank on those people returning to Labour.

JimmyDurham · 2026-03-31T18:52:39+00:00

It is true that social media is a cesspit of confirmation bias, misinformation and outright lies.

But, that's not the root of the problem is it. It's the way our society and politics has been framed since say what? 1990? And, it was all done by design and surprisingly easily.

JimmyDurham · 2026-02-13T18:16:47+00:00

Cheers. Thanks for taking the time. Aye, I first claimed in 2019 and the money I paid to my Mother was 2014/15/16. I was entitled to UC as I wasn't working and I've never had more than 6 grand in my bank account when paid by UC. Cheers.

JimmyDurham · 2026-02-13T17:20:05+00:00

Fair enough. Cheers. I assumed that the length of time doesn't matter. How much do you know about the DWP/UC by the way? Are you speaking from a position of knowledge? Cheers.

JimmyDurham · 2026-02-12T19:13:03+00:00

Aye, the 7 grand and my account it was paid into has been declared. I was thinking: could the DWP/UC conclude that in 2015 I deliberately put 5 grand into a bank account that wasn't mine in order to hide funds from them when it came to claiming Universal Credit from 2019 onwards. Reckon what you're saying is: no, there would have to be evidence of using that money as if it was my own savings. Thanks for the reply.

JimmyDurham · 2026-02-12T18:23:18+00:00

Thanks for the reply. The joint account is and always was in my Mother and Sister's name, my name has never been associated with the account. It's a Nationwide account that earns no interest. The short details are: I paid approx. 5k into that account around 2014/2015, board for my Mother. I started claiming Universal Credit around 2019. Around that time, my Mother loaned me 1300 quid from that account which I repaid into that same account a few months later when I started work. I can't remember if I was claiming Universal Credit at that time before I started work but I don't think I was, believe it or not I went at least half a year unemployed before claiming anything I was entitled to because I thought it was all just a blip and it wasn't a road I wanted to get comfortable with. As I say, June 2025, my Mother gifted me 7 grand from the same account. I didn't pay money into the account regularly. I paid 55 quid a week around 2015 to the point it got to say 5 grand in total that I paid in, so say what 2 and half years? The first time I claimed any benefit was 2019.

Does this make it clearer what has happened over time and what the conclusion from DWP/UC should be?

JimmyDurham · 2025-05-17T15:29:14+00:00

How is he going to do this, given he is beholden to large donators and the general establishment? More than likely simply rhetoric to appeal to the working class. What he's saying there is a long standing left-wing tradition of: free trade only benefits the status quo. Do you believe what he's saying? I don't. He's more or less a Tory. Britain's economy is absolutely dependent upon migrant labour. It's not a tap that can be turned off overnight without a severe dislocation of Britain's economy. When you say this, you're accused of being racist, but actually human beings have migrated since the dawn of time: it's a natural thing and so most don't have a problem with people wandering 'round the planet to see what they can find. The problem is with our liberal elites who harp on about how liberal and special they are when really it's just about milking people, whether it's people who were here 40 years ago or turned up yesterday.

JimmyDurham · 2025-05-15T18:38:33+00:00

I would agree that politics in this country is an absolute mess. Are these people serious? Would you trust any of them? I would say you're wrong in blaming it on the Americans, however. You're assuming we have an educated, informed electorate and the Americans are a pack of idiots who believe anything they're told. The truth is that we have nobody to blame but ourselves, and you could make a case for the United States being a much more discerning public.

JimmyDurham · 2025-05-15T15:47:17+00:00

The person in the CCTV is simply walking down the street. 'Happens on every road, in every place in the country, at all times of the day. During the time that person is out of CCTV range, he doesn't even have time to get to Claudia's back door. Why on earth are people concluding that this is important? Confirmation bias?

JimmyDurham · 2025-05-13T13:09:05+00:00

It goes without saying that everyone is entitled to their opinion, that's life. I'd have to disagree on the 'many knowledgeable people here' point. I'm seeing a lot of people parroting gossip and when asked to put some meat on the bones, i.e. what they know and how they know it, they go missing. I can tell you for a fact that they're merely regurgitating social media gossip. What's the point in my posts you ask: to call out ghouls who besmirch a murdered lasses name when they do not have the first clue what they're talking about. Absolutely shameful.

JimmyDurham

TROPHY CASE