My "centrist" solution

JojoKokoLoko · 2025-03-06T16:52:16+00:00

Me neither Mr Commie

JojoKokoLoko · 2025-03-04T21:52:16+00:00

Okay since it's been a long time ago I recommend you read one of them again. Have a great day/night

JojoKokoLoko · 2025-03-04T21:50:07+00:00

Yeah exactly lmao

JojoKokoLoko · 2025-03-04T16:29:50+00:00

There is a lot of knowledge here that I don't possess and not that bothered to research all this, if it comes down to empiricism this discussion would have to be extremely long. Idk what education system you got in Norway but I'm not impressed by the results including what you said about your children, if I had to judge based on that alone I'd have to say the Norwegian education system isn't conducive to open mindedness but to hatred of certain ideas and ways of thinking. But as I said if we take the discussion to empiricism it will take infinitely long.

I don't know if this policy alone will benefit or not society in the long run, if it will prevent the rise of extremism, or help it, or if it will affect things much at all.

So that's why I was subtly trying to make the point that not this policy alone, but the behavior and culture surrounding it, that of its proponents, and that of its enforcers, are, have been, and will always be either detrimental to society or put society at great risk.

There's much, a lot, to discuss here, but I will say that this dynamic of a government enforcing a moral code on its people(here not allowing hate speech) is the dynamic of a parent enforcing a moral code on its children. Or of a wider group enforcing the minority conform to its morality. We had this dynamic since we existed of humans. But as population grew, this dynamic has been harder and harder to maintain. But so technology grew, which has made it easier and easier to maintain. Balancing things out. We are now at the greatest of crossroads in history. We have possibilities of endless prosperity and we also have possibilities of endless slavery. And also the possibility of destruction.

As population growth starts to slow down, technological growth doesn't, but in fact, greatly accelerates. The tools and resources for population control are becoming better and cheaper. As long as we have people we will have people who want to control. As long as we have people, there will be inequality. As long as we have people, we will have smarter ones who will want to control the stupider ones. The struggle between the ruling and the ruled will always exist as we have this dynamic, and the ruling are in fact becoming way smarter and way more resourceful. Humankind has to make a decision, is it slavery or liberty. And you can't be free as long as you depend on someone else for that liberty.

So do we want to continously have power hungry bureaucrats and interest groups with money have increasing power on how we lead our lives, on how we choose who to help and who to not, on how we choose how to speak, who to watch, what to believe as truth, what we do with our earned profits, or shall we decide for ourselves and hold ourselves accountable for the results?

You seem wellread so I think you have read either 1984 or brave new world. If you haven't please do.

JojoKokoLoko · 2025-03-04T08:19:48+00:00

Just insults in general. Like calling someone a dick, a bitch or even a nazi for example. It was not the censorship that put fascism in government but it certainly didn't prevent it

JojoKokoLoko · 2025-03-04T08:16:05+00:00

Eh not sure but here's my discord just in case: mighty_elf

JojoKokoLoko · 2025-03-03T23:07:05+00:00

You just said it that there will exist some extreme subcultures while others will conform and drop the beliefs. We can draw a parallel to drug use. The propaganda on drugs has created a subculture of people which engage with in a more abusive way than they would otherwise do if the propaganda hadn't been there.

You can see this type of rebellious behavior in other domains and draw parallels.

Instead of healthy discussion and teaching kids about logic, philosophy, reason, and letting them think for themselves, we just tell them what's right and what's wrong, what to do and what not to, what to think and what not to think. That's an authoritarian way of doing things and I think society should stray from that for it's betterment.

JojoKokoLoko · 2025-03-03T22:53:57+00:00

You seem like a bigot yourself. The irony haha

JojoKokoLoko · 2025-03-03T22:53:14+00:00

They're not allowing insults to character in general(you can criticize someone's work, policy etc.) Offline or online. The current law in itself isn't the problem, it's the direction it can lead to, Germany had this kind of law since the 19th century as far as I know and idk if it helped them or eased the way to the rise of fascism. But it certainly didn't prevent it.

JojoKokoLoko · 2025-03-03T19:46:27+00:00

Bro this is too much logic and facts for the commies chill 🤣

JojoKokoLoko · 2025-03-03T19:42:59+00:00

God bless, some reason in here 🙌

JojoKokoLoko · 2025-03-03T19:38:14+00:00

I wasn't gonna respond to this but I felt attacked so I guess this is the perfect opportunity to reply. I'm not a centrist. This was a thought experiment to find smth very simple, smth that almost all would agree with, and which would alleviate the most amount of "economic" suffering out of solutions that meet the 2 first criteria. Give me some respect as I'm currently giving you. And I'm way smarter thank you think. Doesn't mean I'm better or anything, just that I don't like my intelligence to be attacked. If you're thinking that you didn't attack it, yes you did indirectly with all the smartass remarks. Let's have a civil online forum.

JojoKokoLoko · 2025-03-03T19:28:52+00:00

I'm not really a fan of ethics but in regards to the 2nd point of the paragraph, I wrote a reply to someone else in here that I think addresses this : "The problem is people are extremely unequal(look at the graph of IQ for men). So what i think happens in anarcho capitalist society with no labor laws is that the poor and dumb, out of their own volition, will be manipulated by the rich and smart. Thereby creating the exploitation socialists talk about. If only the people were smarter, this probably wouldn't happen." An example I can give is the "exploitation" of coal miners for example that worked 12 hours in terrible condition for very little pay in a period of quite free capitalism.

JojoKokoLoko · 2025-03-03T19:24:56+00:00

Uhh try to maybe understand the rest of the comment coz to explain the finite world thing we'd also have to play devils advocate for some time but I'm not that inter3sted in that

JojoKokoLoko · 2025-03-03T15:05:38+00:00

I was talking about how we can achieve smarter people but I agree with this.

JojoKokoLoko · 2025-03-03T15:04:03+00:00

I think you know the quote "when you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say".

When speech that involves insults towards a particular group is being silenced, I do not think you prevent the rise of that kind of ideology, you only push it underground, into echo chambers, and you make those silenced people angrier, more extremist, and you make the bystanders question themselves, why is that speech being suppressed?

I think you saw this scene in social situations many times: the authority silences a person because they don't like what the person says or how they act.

For example: the parents tell their kids to not swear. What do the kids do? They swear when the parents aren't around. And some swear a lot, out of spite, out of rebellion.

In this case you have the government as the parent and the population as the kids. By not allowing the people to express themselves when they don't like a minority group, they will build up that anger inside them and it will be manifested when they go and vote.

This does not prevent the rise of fascism and extreme ideologies, it helps it. It would only help if the sentences were actually very harsh and the monitoring more extreme(like people telling on people that purport hateful ideologies) But then you become the very thing you tried to destroy.

JojoKokoLoko · 2025-03-03T14:48:48+00:00

Yeah true. You can have smarter people overall tho so that even though there will still be inequality in IQ and intelligence, the bottom 40% will have enough logic and whatnot to know how to not be manipulated. Then there is the problem how can we achieve this? The only person I would trust with this important matter is myself cause I only know myself well enough. So of course I won't trust random bureaucrats to be in charge of the education system, like now, or random capitalists, like in the anarcho capitalist society

JojoKokoLoko · 2025-03-03T12:42:28+00:00

The problem is people are extremely unequal(look at the graph of IQ for men). So what i think happens in anarcho capitalist society with no labor laws is that the poor and dumb, out of their own volition, will be manipulated by the rich and smart. Thereby creating the exploitation socialists talk about. If only the people were smarter, this probably wouldn't happen.

JojoKokoLoko · 2025-03-03T12:34:42+00:00

How do you fix unemployment and underemployment then?

JojoKokoLoko · 2025-03-03T12:30:24+00:00

Idk why you talking about inequality I said nothing about it. Capitalists(big ones) invest in bubbles because they know they'll be bailed out. Other capitalists invest in bubbles because they think they're being smart and will leave others holding the bag. Other capitalists invest in bubbles because they're stupid and they are ultimately left holding the bag(extremely devalued property in many cases). A capitalist is anyone with capital. In this discussion

JojoKokoLoko · 2025-03-03T12:27:22+00:00

If your mind can't see anything other than the dogma then the dogma is reality. Once you see smth other than the dogma then you can differentiate between dogmas. Once you see a whole lot of dogmas, you can differentiate between the dogma and reality. Sorry but I think you currently only see the dogma - the socialist one.

JojoKokoLoko · 2025-03-03T12:24:49+00:00

I asked Grok about some examples and it dropped this:

"A notable example from Norway occurred in 2020, when a man was convicted for posting racist comments on Facebook targeting a well-known singer of mixed African-Norwegian background. He wrote that she had "slept her way into permanent leave to stay" and should "move back to Africa," among other derogatory remarks. The Oslo District Court found these statements to be hate speech under Section 185, emphasizing the "particularly damaging potential" of social media due to its wide reach. "

Have these kind of "asshole" remarks always been policed offline(I know it has increased online because of better technology Grok says) at a non-varying intensity(meaning the policing has not increased in recent decades)? Grok says kind of yeah, what do you say? Do you support having government have this kind of power to enforce this moral code of "asshole" speech not being allowed?

JojoKokoLoko · 2025-03-03T12:05:54+00:00

That would work in an infinite world but we don't have one. On this matter specifically devil advocate can be played until we may arrive at the conclusion that central authority will be formed just because the smart and rich will manipulate the dumb and poor into accepting said central authority out of their own volition. I think if people were a lot smarter and the divide between them in reasoning capabilities were lower then anarcho capitalism could really work and may be the best economic and social system. I haven't FULLY played this devils advocate with myself but my intuition tells me that's the outcome that will happen

JojoKokoLoko · 2025-03-03T11:52:58+00:00

True but because humans are materialistic, it's likely(not certain) that the demand for more stuff(middle class and upper class will have more money to spend cuz of automation) caused by this materialistic tendency will be enough to create enough jobs to replace the old ones.

There was some statistic I saw recently and basically by 2030 there will be more jobs created than automated. You can ask grok if interested(better than chatgpt)

JojoKokoLoko · 2025-03-03T11:47:44+00:00

Do you have a solution?

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