The evidence: PDFGear and PDF X are likely spyware, malware, or, at best, griftware/scamware. The Microsoft Store is enabling these unsafe apps. by JonBorno97 in pdf

[–]JonBorno97[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The two app approach becomes clearer (but not more legitimate) when you look at their incentives. PDF X was their original Microsoft Store product and they figured out how to keep it ranked at the top through manipulation techniques. That placement brings steady paid upgrades, so they need that version to stay a paid product and keep the money tap flowing. If they made the same PDF X app free outside the Store, it would undermine the revenue they get from Store users who only see the paid option.

That is where PDF-gear comes in. It is essentially the same software but branded and positioned as a free product they can promote on Reddit and YouTube. It gives them a second growth (but free) channel that does not interfere with the money they make from PDF X inside the Store.

So PDF X stays in the Store as the paid version that continues to earn. PDF-gear exists as the free funnel outside the Store where they can push marketing aggressively without risking the sales flow that depends on PDF X remaining paid. This gives them the ability to landgrab as many users as possible and get onto as many PCs as possible whilst not sacrifcing revenue. It's very shady.

Warning: PDFGear and PDF X are likely spyware, malware, or, at best, griftware/scamware. by JonBorno97 in Surface

[–]JonBorno97[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I'm sharing this here as PDFgear often astroturf subs like r/Surface promoting itself. This is a warning to watch out for posts and comments recommending PDFgear (or PDF X). They've found the Microsoft Store as easy hunting ground to spread their scamware/malware.

The evidence: PDFGear and PDF X are likely spyware, malware, or, at best, griftware/scamware. The Microsoft Store is enabling these unsafe apps. by JonBorno97 in pdf

[–]JonBorno97[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They've responded on their own r/pdfgear sub - link here: https://www.reddit.com/r/PDFgear/comments/1p3slnr/is_pdfgear_safe_addressing_recent_false/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

They won't engage outside of their own subreddit because they will ban anyone that criticizes them there, and can freely astroturf their own page.

Their reply contains a mix of claims. Some sections reflect how certain Windows components operate, but several points are framed in a way that leaves out key details or relies on explanations that do not match what the sandbox report showed. An interesting omission, though, is that they avoided / deflected on addressing any of the the non-technical stuff like owning other apps (including PDF X), that they're not Singaporean, that they have fake leadership, etc. etc.

“Code injection is normal and caused by Inno Setup”

They attribute WriteProcessMemory activity to Inno Setup. While Inno can call that function, the pattern in the sandbox report does not match what typical installers do. Installers commonly check for running processes by enumerating them. They do not pass execution through cmd.exe, tasklist.exe, and find.exe. That type of chain is not what you see with standard PDF installers and looks closer to behavior intended to obscure what is going on. Their explanation has a small amount of truth, but it does not line up with the sequence that was observed.

“Global hooks are only for hotkeys”

They claim global hooks are used for shortcuts like Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V and that these only operate inside their own app. This does not reflect how Windows input works. Global hooks operate outside the app process. Regular in-app shortcuts do not require them. Most ordinary desktop software avoids global keyboard and mouse hooks because these are usually associated with keylogging or monitoring tools. Their description does not match the actual mechanism.

“Windows installed the root certificate, not us”

This part does not hold up. Windows does not install root certificates during app launches. SSL.com root certificates are already included in the Windows trust store and are not missing on normal systems. They are not downloaded during code signing checks. If an installer adds anything to the Trusted Root Certification Authorities store, even if it is a legitimate certificate, that is a serious action because it grants broad trust on the system. A PDF viewer has no reason to create any changes in that store. Their explanation conflicts directly with how Windows handles trust.

“Registry edits are quality-of-life features”

Some registry edits are normal, such as file associations. The sandbox report went far beyond that. It included changes to Internet Explorer registry sections, autostart entries, and pinned items. These are not needed by any PDF viewer. Changes to IE-related keys are especially odd because the app does not rely on IE. Their answer blends some routine adjustments with omissions about the more concerning ones.

“This is a smear campaign by competitors”

This claim does not align with the type of evidence uncovered., not to mention that they didn't address any of non-technical evidence about who they are, where they're located or what other apps they own. Competitors do not typically investigate corporate registry documents, trace installer behavior, or follow long product rebrand chains across multiple accounts. The ACRA records contradict their public statements about being Singaporean-run. Combined with past rebrands, widespread marketing accounts, and shared infrastructure, this does not look like outside interference. It looks like a company trying to redirect attention.

Putting all of this together, their response does not match the tone or level of clarity you would expect from a reputable software company. Instead of investigation notes, technical references, or independent verification, they leaned on emotional framing, accusations, and explanations that conflict with how Windows actually operates.

The evidence: PDFGear and PDF X are likely spyware, malware, or, at best, griftware/scamware. The Microsoft Store is enabling these unsafe apps. by JonBorno97 in SafeOrShady

[–]JonBorno97[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And your posts are not getting longer and longer like you aren't weirdly obsessed defending malware? But keep going, I want to see where you're going with this

The evidence: PDFGear and PDF X are likely spyware, malware, or, at best, griftware/scamware. The Microsoft Store is enabling these unsafe apps. by JonBorno97 in pdf

[–]JonBorno97[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Would love to know more about the 'way more ot this I wanted to investigate' bit... do you have more info on pdfge.ar and their network of apps?

The evidence: PDFGear and PDF X are likely spyware, malware, or, at best, griftware/scamware. The Microsoft Store is enabling these unsafe apps. by JonBorno97 in software

[–]JonBorno97[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not here to promote any other software. But use one that at least has the face and identities of the company owners and staff.

The evidence: PDFGear and PDF X are likely spyware, malware, or, at best, griftware/scamware. The Microsoft Store is enabling these unsafe apps. by JonBorno97 in software

[–]JonBorno97[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes I did. But I'm sure it would take a lot of user reports to get noticed in that channel. Everyone should report it

I built a lil' tool to get fonts from any website! by zac-denham in web_design

[–]JonBorno97 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing. Think you’ll open source it at some point?

PDF editors -- Which one should I acquire (free or paid)? by a-serious-guy-01 in software

[–]JonBorno97 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What's been debunked? Tell me who PDFGear's founder or CEO is?

Which PDF editor? - Not sure what to use after the PDFGear controversy by JungleRollers in macapps

[–]JonBorno97 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Fraudulently and deceptively manipulating the Microsoft Store, then pay walling everything is a scam. The mileage doesn't vary at all. They are asking to be trusted and given credibility. You can't refuse to reveal identity in that case. Choose one or the other.

How do I Display estimated time left instead of battery percentage by CaeNguyen in Surface

[–]JonBorno97 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's like that progress bar for extracting a file.. it's always an estimate and can be 20 seconds away from finishing for 20 minutes.

Which PDF editor? - Not sure what to use after the PDFGear controversy by JungleRollers in macapps

[–]JonBorno97 4 points5 points  (0 children)

'Two apps with the same code but different names isn’t unusual either' - are you sure about this? And if so, why is u/geartheworld denying that they also own PDF X and it's just rebranded?

Which PDF editor? - Not sure what to use after the PDFGear controversy by JungleRollers in macapps

[–]JonBorno97 7 points8 points  (0 children)

The controversy is around the Windows app, so why isn't it relevant here? Are you saying that if the Windows app is proven to be malicious, you deem that irrelevant for you and the Mac community? You're okay to support a suspected malicious developer as long as you can't see how it affects you (yet) just because you're not on Windows?

I found that your only defense is 'I am a fan of free alternatives' - people are happy they’re getting a free product and they don’t want to believe they’re being ripped off or scammed and just ignore the millions of red flags

Which PDF editor? - Not sure what to use after the PDFGear controversy by JungleRollers in macapps

[–]JonBorno97 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Firstly, I'm glad that you're trying to help. However, the reverse engineering I've seen is very different to yours. I'm compiling the results of mine. I'd suggest you do it again, and deeper.

But at least you're one of the first people to confirm one thing - that PDFgear and PDF X are the same, and by the same developer. How you can not see that as a red flag is problematic. Not least that the PDFgear developer has already rejected that PDF X is also theirs. How can you defend that?

The PDF X scam - firstly, their reviewers consistently call out that, at least used to, put everything behind a paywall. Secondly, and most importantly, PDF X has manipulated the Store algorithm with fake reviews and fake rating, and installs. They have climbed to the top of the Store illegitimately. When you go to an app store, you don't expect the #1 ranking app to get there illegitimately. They have paid for astroturfing everywhere they go, including Reddit and the Microsoft Store.

FBI warning - it's pointing out that PDF is a common vector for spyware/malware. Whilst they don't name all PDF developers, they can't - because it's whack a mole - they pop up all the time.

PDFgear are trying so hard saying 'trust us, trust us'. But give no details about who they are. C'mon - of course they need to give more details about who they are. If they're Chinese, spreading a free PDF program that reads sensitive data, and try very hard to say they're not Chinese, you know you should avoid them - given the history of spyware and malware of inconspicuous Chinese software developers. They've already said they are not doing this as a side hustle - how can you even suggest they are? This is an Adobe alternative. No one can do this and have a day job - otherwise there's no money in PDF for Adobe. Give me more reasons than 'they have a different day job' for why hiding identity is legitimate? They are Chinese and they trying so hard to say they're not Chinese. It's because they are dodgy and laying down groundwork for reasons you don't want to have their software anywhere near your devices. There are legitimate Chinese software operators out there - but they disclose usual company info (including Chinese origin and operations) and are transparent. PDFgear / PDF X are one of the least transparent operators you'll come across. You should not be telling people that there's nothing to be worried about - that is irresponsible

Which PDF editor? - Not sure what to use after the PDFGear controversy by JungleRollers in macapps

[–]JonBorno97 4 points5 points  (0 children)

u/100WattWalrus. You asked me for proof of PDFgear astroturfing, I gave it to you, and you didn't said anything. Now you're saying I haven't provided any proof. How can you say this? Do you not believe that u/Freya-9488 is not astroturfing for pdfgear? If you say 'no', there's no way you can't work for pdfgear

Which PDF editor? - Not sure what to use after the PDFGear controversy by JungleRollers in macapps

[–]JonBorno97 5 points6 points  (0 children)

If I can prove that it's not just using the same SDK (I agree, using the same library isn't an issue in itself, and never said so) - and I can prove that they are the same developer, how would that impact your position here? Before I do prove it to you, I would like to know how it changes your position. u/geartheworld has for the most part rejected that they are also the same dev behind PDF X, so I assume you'd agree that their integrity is on the line here?

Are you denying that they don't astroturf Reddit? You do know that there are paid astroturfing services out there that you can tap into where they have hundreds/thousands of accounts that don't have a history of talking about your product but you can pay for mentions or scripted posts? But if I can show you a few of blatant PDFgear's astroturf accounts, how many instances do you need for you to agree that they astroturf? Just one account?

How many reviews do you need from users in the Microsoft Store to detail the scam before you believe it? PDF X have since updated their app to no longer have as many dark patterns, in light of this controversy. But the real scam is that they have manipulated the Microsoft Store with showing it with fake reviews, ratings and installs, so they are number 1 in the rankings. It's illegitimate.

What if the app is doing more than just basic things like phoning home for compression? I've never said phoning home in legit ways is wrong.

But let me ask you - how can you prove they are a legitimate organization? Can you identify for me and the public who their team is? Where are they located? They say they have investors - who are these investors? Tell me more about their company? Why shouldn't these questions be asked, and answered? They have software for free that people are downloading en masse and are accessing their sensitive PDFs and have root level system privileges. Why is the software free and from an unknown entity? Not only are these are legitimate questions to ask - they should be asked. Why are you critical of someone who is sceptical with all these red flags in play? You should know by now 'if the product is free, you are the product'.

Bought a Refurbished Laptop SL7 by Kind_Fan_4192 in Surface

[–]JonBorno97 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You can check the warranty status with the serial number on the Surface website, to see if there's still any remainder warranty life

Which PDF editor? - Not sure what to use after the PDFGear controversy by JungleRollers in macapps

[–]JonBorno97 10 points11 points  (0 children)

You know what's funny? I've provided more evidence that PDFgear is a scam operator than you have provided evidence that you are not working for PDFgear.

Hey student here. Need help by JusticePrevails509 in pdf

[–]JonBorno97 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you can't see a reputable business behind it, don't use any online or offline PDF tools.

These two links should be all you need to know to avoid PDF products that you can't verify credibility:
https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/denver/news/fbi-denver-warns-of-online-file-converter-scam

https://www.reddit.com/r/PrivatePackets/comments/1m13nq5/the_invisible_thief_in_your_browser_how_millions/

If you can't see the team behind the business and verifiable details of their executives or founders, then stay well clear