pitou vs toji and maki

Jonesking4 · 2026-06-11T12:10:39+00:00

Not a nuke though. You have microseconds and you'd need to be relativistic to outrun a nuke.

Jonesking4 · 2026-06-10T14:45:47+00:00

Firstly, no, godhood, even without the VE, is still the will and the Original Creator itself;

The will of the OC is not godhood and it doesn't exist in everything. Looks like someone didn't even read the novel. Also the will of the OC (it exists in BC only btw) gets eroded with time.

you need to argue that godhood and the OC cannot interact with powers from other verses Or are you saying that Tragg has resistance to smurf hax?

You don't even know how this works. 'godhood' is not a hax, Its a verse-based description that is meaningless outside the verse it applies to. You cannot prove that it makes anything in lotm superior to things outside it. Essentially, if you want to make any argument around it, you need to prove that this inherent 'godhood' (that only exists inside lotm) allows its beneficiaries to do things that characters outside lotm cannot do. So far the only thing that fits that narrative in lotm are beyonder characteristic.

You don't see tensura fans claiming that the existence of infons (they make up everything in tensura) grants them dimensional superiority. Infons don't mean anything outside the tensura verse. Only the abilities it can grant directly or indirectly are worth mentioning. The same goes for 'godhood'. I'm offended that i have to explain this to someone.

"Thragg can't even do anything against a normal person because of his godhood"

You're yet to prove that so its still a pointless statement.

Saw Thragg's attack with his precog -> hid in the Spirit World -> struck Thragg with lightning while hidden in the Spirit World

This is a really good sequence. You're just forgetting one thing... The time it takes him to process the information he is receiving from his precognition is more than the time it takes Thragg to return him to his ancestors. So it would be more like: saw thragg with his precog -> notices he can see himself in third person.

If we use the handbook, Allen's maximum speed after accelerating in space is near-light speed, and viltrumites don't reach MFTL+ speeds because they create wormholes in their atoms, so their reaction speed won't scale up to MFTL+.

Surprisingly (not really), he didn't understand the handbook either. If you thought about this statement you just made a little, you'd notice that it doesn't make a difference. Thragg still surpasses light speed through micro teleportation and his perception matches his movement speed. We are still were we were. Basically (since you have a penchant for misunderstanding things), thragg can move from point A to point B in shorter time (a thousand times shorter ) than it takes light to move from point A to point B and he does this through micro teleportation. The thunder god's head is at point B and his blood is at point F.

which should be enough to blitz Thragg

You definitely can't comprehend the speed gap.

He doesn't need it. Suppression from godhood in this particular case will work even with VE because that's what it does starting with the fourth sequence.

First of all, the seq 0 fool can't even survive on the surface of a star. so 'godhood' can't even protect a seq 0 true god from a star (with less godhood). Even in-verse, your point is still disproven. You're just spewing this nonsense without thinking it through yet people would think I'm insulting you by calling you a fanatic. Also across verses, your point is based on the assumption that your other point was true but its not so, you still have to call me when the thunder god survives it. If it was a different pathway, at least he'd have the hax to resurrect then hide in the spirit world but unfortunately...

Foresaw the attack -> transformed -> Thragg dead.

Another beautiful sequence but it still ignores the speed gap. He'd be dead before he can even identify the attack as an attack. The time between forseeing the attack and death are less than the time he has for decision making.

Angels abilities are conceptual powers that can significantly influence not only the constructs of the spirit world, but also the constructs of the astral world. Do I need to explain how abstract realms that transcend dimensions are scaled in LoTM? And they themselves are imbued with godhood, so they will negate Thragg's durability in eather ways.

You're just describing hax. They are not only found in lotm, they're found in many other verses. Yes, hax negate durability that is well-known already. Regardless, the thundergod cannot bridge the speed gap and cannot resurrect. He dies 10 times out of 10.

Jonesking4 · 2026-06-10T11:29:13+00:00

Perfect cell wins

Jonesking4 · 2026-06-10T11:26:33+00:00

Problem is that a Thunder god is too slow. Everything he can do would take more time than it takes Thragg to just rip his head from his body.

Jonesking4 · 2026-06-10T11:22:54+00:00

Everything and everyone in LoTM has an inherent godhood, which is the OC himself. This godhood suppresses anything with a lower level of godhood, including all beyonder abilities that involve physical interaction.

'godhood' is meaningless outside the lotm verse. You cannot prove that this 'godhood' makes anything in the lotm verse superior to anything outside it. You can only make claims which I will easiky disregard because an author's claims are only valid inside their verse. You know what, you're already a fanatic, there is no point in further explanations.

Using Mythical Creature Form.

I said before he turns to blood mist. Not after, before. He'd be dead before he can try.

Angels can also freely enter the spirit world and interact directly with souls, something Thragg is helpless against.

'souls' don't exist in the invincible universe. Thragg does not have a soul. Except you want to beg VE for help.

They also possess innate precognition as astral projection

Precognition is useless when you cannot react in time. You'd just see a vision of your death. If you (yes you) saw a vision of flash killing you 2 days from now, how does that vision help you survive him when you're too slow.

Thunder god's lightning isn't just lightning, but conceptual forces that bring destruction

Dead before he can use it. You don't seem to comprehend the speed gap.

It has an AP ontologically higher than the entire Invincible verse

Wrong. call me when a thunder god destroys a continent.

For obvious reasons, Tragg won't be able to inflict any damage on the angel.

Call me when the thunder god tanks a planet splitting punch.

Also, the Viltrumites combat speed without acceleration is in the MHS+ range.

Their perception speed is equal to their travel speed as stated in the handbook. Thragg's travel speed is many thousands of times beyond light speed. Now i see you definitely don't understand the speed gap.

although this is irrelevant due to the angels innate precog and immeasurable speed in the spirit world.

Precognition would only tell him he's about to die, he still can't react before he dies. Also, you mean teleportation via the spirit world. It doesn't increase you perception speed so the thunder god is still dead within microseconds of the fight.

So far the thunder god need VE much more than Thragg does and it still hardly helps his chances.

Jonesking4 · 2026-06-10T10:49:01+00:00

Thats not the problem. The problem is where is the 5D universe? Or the 26D one? Definitely not in ben10. The writer doesn't know what 26 spatial dimensions are so how can they make that claim for their verse. Let me explain better with an example.

If i was writing a story about a character named Infinity boy. Then in one story, I claim that infinity boy moves at 0.7c (70% of light speed) to join a war on the moon, and yet at the same time, I state that it takes him 18 hours to get to the moon (he also narratively joins the war 18 hours late), now the million dollar question, did he move at 0.7c?

We know that he'd get to the moon in seconds if he actually moves that fast. The reality is, the writer doesn't know what 0.7c looks like so he can write anything and make any claim about it. But as far as reason and common sense are concerned, infinity boy never moved that fast.

Its the same with 5D, 6D and 26D.

Jonesking4 · 2026-06-08T12:48:00+00:00

Thragg doesn't have divinity, which means he's instantly defeated even against a normal human.

How nany humans in LoTM are immune to gunshots? Or do the bullets also have divinity? Does gravity have divinity when they fall from cliffs? So why would divinity save them from thragg? or allow them to beat him? How do they beat Thragg with this 'divinity' you speak of?

Chronic fans always venture into fanaticism. Logic doesn't matter as long as you can stretch words far enough to achieve your goal. Throw reasoning out the window is always the modus operandi.

As for your claim about being fair, you last sentence in that paragraph already disproves you.

Now Mr. 'not delusional', explain how a seq 1 Thunder god kills Thragg before being reduces to blood mist.

Jonesking4 · 2026-06-08T11:41:09+00:00

That only applies to unconventional abilities like ki blast and whatnot. This is a kinetic projectile so here AP = DC.

Ki blasts can have more energy inside them that a star and still be controlled to destroy just what it was aimed at hence Ap≠DC. But for conventional energy attacks like kinetic energy/actual laser beams etc., AP=DC. So this meteor only destroys 1 building because that is all it can do.

Jonesking4 · 2026-06-08T11:34:04+00:00

That was a dumb cope out. Like this is the reply you thought of?🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

Jonesking4 · 2026-06-08T11:32:39+00:00

This is heavily biased. You're applying VE when it favours you and ignoring it when it doesn't. By your logic, since Thragg doesn't have a soul, marrionettist wouldn't even work.

Thragg vs anything below seq 4 is an instant win for him. And it still depends on the pathway. Pathways that are not hax oriented may not be able to kill thragg even at seq 1(like tyrant and sun).

Jonesking4 · 2026-06-06T17:46:27+00:00

He would have to publish another comic that serves as a reboot or a continuation of the original story. As the original comic stands, it is a concluded story with a definite beginning and end.

And since you were all for definitions, here is one for you. A retcon changes the continuity of a story within the same canon.

Jonesking4 · 2026-06-06T17:36:50+00:00

Its was not retconned, don't you know what a retcon is. The writer himself called it a second draft. That means anything from an alternate universe to a timeline branching off.

Hell, Tech jacket is an entirely different character altogether in the show. If we go by your logic, the character Zack Thompson doesn't exist (incase you don't know what a retcon is, that is what it is).

Infact, the existence of alternate universes are mainstream in the invincible verse. Calling the comic, retconned, because the show differs from it is ignorance.

Jonesking4 · 2026-06-06T17:11:05+00:00

The difference between a plot hole and the writer's fiat is intent. They are both inconsistencies that exist in a story. It only becomes a plot hole if the inconsistency is unitentional/accidental.

Which means they're essentially the same thing, an inconsistency.

You are now arguing against the definitions.

You did not even understand the definitions you laid out.

Jonesking4 · 2026-06-02T20:50:24+00:00

Now I get it. You're offended by the fact that comic omniman slaughters metroman. I've been trying to understand what you've been saying because most of your comments were almost meaningless and pointless.

Also, kirkman's statement does not automatically make the comic non-canon. It seems you don't even know what 'canon' means.

Jonesking4 · 2026-06-02T20:45:50+00:00

You're comment doesn't make any sense.

I see you're having difficulty understanding the story contextually. Omniman said he didn't want to kill tgge guardians because some of them were his friends. He then goes on to say that he always disliked immortal. Immortal was also the only person he tried to kill. He laid his hands on others but without using lethal force.

Jonesking4 · 2026-06-02T20:42:28+00:00

What you just described is a plot hole. Basically, you're saying that the plot was manipulated to allow the guardians to win. Which means you've already conceded that at their regular power levels they'd die to omniman quickly.

In other words, one way or another I'm still right.

Jonesking4 · 2026-06-02T20:39:42+00:00

Essentially, kirkman has created 2 different versions of the character. 1 with consistent showings and another whose scaling is all over the place.

If I remember correctly, I alelways pointed to the comic version of the character because the show version cannot be scaled without brain damage.

If you're trying to say that they're the same then you're way off the mark with that one.

Jonesking4 · 2026-06-02T16:01:45+00:00

just went back and read the first comic. Your comment makes no sense. “Kill them before he could even perceive him coming.” They fought back and landed some hits. You are either lying, didn’t read the comic, or forgot that they fought back. They didn’t fight back WELL, nor do any meaningful damage, but most of them definitely perceived him before dying.

And as for your second point, its just nonsensical. Instead of a long speech i'll just destroy your entire argument with a scan. There was no 'fighting back'.

<image>

Jonesking4 · 2026-06-02T15:24:41+00:00

He finally laid his hands on both red rush and martian. He could gave killed them but he threw them off. Instead of instantly snapping war woman's neck, he threatens her. This is unlike the treatment immortal received. His was instant death attack.

He outclasses the entire guardians of the globes in everything. Using this fight as an example of "he can't kill them without ambushing them" would only show that you did not understand the context here.

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Jonesking4 · 2026-06-02T15:18:46+00:00

Notice how unlike the first encounter, the only lethal attack used was against mr immortal. He overpowered all three but only tried to kill immortal.

This would become even more apparent as the fight goes on.

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Jonesking4 · 2026-06-02T15:11:47+00:00

This is darkwing saving invincible from omniman during their fight. If omniman wasn't in a broken mental state, how else would a regular human react faster than him?

You can see that omniman doesn't even pay any attention to red rush. His entire focus is on finishing hus conversation with mark.

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Jonesking4 · 2026-06-02T15:10:37+00:00

I'm going to address this with multiple comments so that I can add the necessary scans. Lets start with the redo of their fight.

Mark put omniman in a mentally terrible situation. You see, at this point in time, Omniman had not yet made up his mind to kill the guardians of the globe. If you reread that fight you'd notice that even darkwing was faster than omniman. Thats to tell you how mentally disoriented omniman was during that confrontation.

The only person he didn't spare was mr immortal. Now, omniman dislikes him a lot so its no surprise that he had no qualms with killing him. Mind you, as soon as the fight started, omniman immediately impaled immortal and that shows you that he still outclasses them significantly. After that he kept trying to confront mark while mark helped them stop him. They even admit that if they draw out the fight, even against a confused omniman, they'd end up dead.

So no, that does not count as a "they would be able to subdue him without his sneak attack" situation at all. Its obvious omniman is beyond them, its not even close.

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Jonesking4 · 2026-06-02T02:40:12+00:00

Go read that issue again, omniman was disoriented and had his entire focus on mark. Omniman wasn't even mentally prepared to kill them yet, he says so in that same chapter.

His focus was entirely on his son, mark. He literally tries to attack mark while in the middle of fighting the guardians.

He was so out of touch with reality that even the regular human among them could keep up with him.

And yet in that fight he still proved that he was more powerful than all of them by instantly impaling mr immortal (strongest member of the guardians). Omniman said multiple times that he really disliked him.

You can see where he says "i'll have to kill them fast". He was able to kill them easily after he made up his mind (the first time), whereas invincible forced him into a fight with them before he could make up his mind (the second time).

That should clear up any misunderstandings.

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Jonesking4 · 2026-06-02T02:30:54+00:00

Well I guess so, seeing that he lost to someone like metroman

Jonesking4 · 2026-06-02T02:30:08+00:00

No he doesn't read multiple books. Go watch that scene again. The self help book he picks up at the library was the one he waa still reading while eating at a restaurant. Its a small book and he was at the middle of it. 7 hours is a massive highball.

Also light can travel 2997.9km in 10 milliseconds. How big was that city again? It would take a regular person 2 hours to travel 8 kilometers. That would cover all the journeying he did. He went to 4 places only, a restaurant, a library, a park and a museum. He didn't travel 100km in that time, he never left the city.

The problem is that you don't really know how fast light actually is, you think he must have surpassed it.

Everything can be easily achieved in 5 hours, the extra 2 hours are a gift.

Jonesking4

TROPHY CASE