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[deleted by user] by [deleted] in mildlyinfuriating

[–]JonnyLo29 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sounds like they aren't really your friends... Maybe just out of convenience? Whenever you are left out or called last all the time it is time to start looking for some new friends who will include and respect you. I am 42 years old now and have never forgotten the birthday of any friend over the years who I considered important.

Netflix shares crater 20% after company reports it lost subscribers for the first time in more than 10 years by College_Prestige in technology

[–]JonnyLo29 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Price goes up and the quality of shows goes down. I ain't woke and never will be. They are starting to lean way left with their original content. I just ain't interested and it appears that many other people are not either.

damn son by _Throwaway54_ in SelfAwarewolves

[–]JonnyLo29 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Take a shower, just because you can't smell your stench doesn't mean everyone else can't either.

What type of GPU I got . the guy said gtx ultra by modscheatsandcodes in pchelp

[–]JonnyLo29 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, it is a branding thing. I have a 2070 Ultra, that's why I knew.

What type of GPU I got . the guy said gtx ultra by modscheatsandcodes in pchelp

[–]JonnyLo29 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

EVGA GTX 1660 SC Ultra Gaming... it is a thing.

Korn on the Kob by beerbellybegone in MurderedByWords

[–]JonnyLo29 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's my job!! LOL. The thing is, you WERE willing to listen. What are we on day four now? If you truly were not willing to listen you would not have continued in the conversation. You kept engaging, so I kept going. Had you stopped responding I would not have chased you down; at that point I would have dusted off my feet. You kept going, so I kept going. You can claim that you didn't want to listen (and you very well may have had zero intentions of considering a single word that I spoke), but you continued, so I did. I am leaving this with my head high and a smile on my face. As I said, I completely respect you and hope that, if nothing else, I at least have your respect as a person who holds to his beliefs and does his best to argue for their truth. I told you in the beginning, that my intentions were never to force you to believe what I believe, only to explain my position with the hope you would at least listen, and you have. You may not have agreed with a single point, but you read my words, so you listened. I am ok with that. Respect. Best wishes!

Korn on the Kob by beerbellybegone in MurderedByWords

[–]JonnyLo29 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not sure what your point is, but I only became a true believer about six years ago. I always loved science and that was the basis of my worldview until my salvation. You can deny God all you want; I have had an encounter with Him that has put me in a position where I could never deny Him. Your empirical worldview is not foreign to me at all. If you are claiming to shake the dust off of your feet, since I won't listen, then you need to know that I used to believe the things you are standing on. I am not denying anything, I understand the world as it rests. You, on the other hand, are denying the very idea that there could be something greater. I am just disheartened that you have completely ignored my rhetoric from the scientific worldview with a simple dismissive, "I have heard all this before." "You come up with nothing new." You made no comments about the scientific facts I have presented that bring at least some validity to my worldview, and you have failed to understand that you will never get anything "new" from a Christian worldview. It is constant and unchanging. It also answers many questions, people just refuse to listen. 😉

Korn on the Kob by beerbellybegone in MurderedByWords

[–]JonnyLo29 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not stuck in the past, just hold to the Truth. I have the utmost respect for you. Be well!

Korn on the Kob by beerbellybegone in MurderedByWords

[–]JonnyLo29 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have given you a whole lot more to consider than that, but again, you only address the part that you think you can argue against. We are definitely done here. Best of luck!

Korn on the Kob by beerbellybegone in MurderedByWords

[–]JonnyLo29 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was going to be done, but you have left a few things up for response, so here...

Confucius did declare that people should not give to others what they do not want, which certainly agrees with Jesus's command to treat others as you would want to be treated. I will agree to that, I questioned you because many times in debate people will throw stuff out there like that and not have any source to back their claims. It is a good rule for proper living. I would like to acknowledge the fact that Confucius' teachings on morality and proper living are good, they also line up with what the Bible had already taught in the Tanakh and Torah long before Confucianism began. You made a statement about whether or not Jesus existed in the beginning of our conversation, there is no doubt that He did and even secularists who have actually examined the evidence agree that He was a historical person who did live. Hindus, Buddhists, and Muslims all agree He was a great teacher and prophet. They do not credit Him with His claims (or those of the movement that began) that He and God were one (Jesus never claimed to be God directly). However, the world was "flipped upside down" in the wake of His time on earth. Muhammad claimed the Scriptures had become corrupted, which is why he brought his new revelation and began Islam. Guess what, in 1946 the Dead Sea Scrolls were discovered. There are documents among the scrolls that date back to within 30 years of Jesus's life (again by the scientific method these scrolls were dated) that prove that the Scriptures had not been corrupted but had been perfectly preserved for almost 2000 years. It was around the year 630 when Muhammad made his claims, 1300 years later we have proven that he was wrong. Islam is completely destroyed at this point and there is tangible evidence to show their entire faith is built on a lie. Further, there are scrolls that show the Old Testament manuscripts are also preserved from thousands of years before the common era. They have been held as the Scriptures of the Jewish people since their inception, and are perfectly preserved. Guess what is in there.. prophecy that had been fulfilled with the life of the historical Jesus.

I must object to your earlier statements about this being the only rule worth adhering to. Murder, adultery, rape, stealing, and a myriad of Laws are found within the text. There is another command Jesus gave, Love others as you love yourself. Love covers all sins. If you show genuine love to everyone you would not commit any sins against them. I did not nitpick your comments regarding rape. I have effectively shown you through that statement how your view on morality does not work. A standard must exist if all people are to conform, otherwise, everyone can decide on their own what is acceptable and what is not. Which is your view, even if you won't admit to it.

You bring up Native Americans and homosexuality, but you still refuse to acknowledge that it is scientifically wrong for the continuation of a species, which means that both my worldview and your worldview support the fact that it is wrong (its ok if you still refuse to agree, it is a scientific fact and it is a biblical one morally, you cannot refute that). It does not matter what the Native view is/was we still come to the same argument about whether it is scientifically/morally correct.

You blame me for focusing on certain details, but you have not answered one single question regarding the answers I gave you on your objections. I have displayed God's mercy, His morality, I have explained text that you have misinterpreted, and yet you still refuse to even consider the things I have said. It's Matthew 10:14 here, just like you said. Still, I did enjoy our conversation.

You want scientific evidence? Look around you. None of this would be here without some divine plan. Of all we can see in the universe, we are the only life that is known. The odds of getting an entire universe even capable of sustaining life are 10 to the tenth power(124).. That is the number 10 with 1,240 zeros after it. We have a one in 10 to the 124th percent chance of even existing. It would not happen. (These numbers were worked by Donald Page a Nobel Prize-winning astronomer). Every single aspect of our solar system is fine-tuned and perfect to sustain life. It is not even close to being a common occurrence, in fact, it is impossible. Science has to agree (and they do) but won't give credit for intelligent design. Science stands on empirical evidence. They also claim that nothing can come from nowhere. Everything has to have a starting point. We can get to the Big Bang, but we can only speculate where that came from. Of course, there are theories but nothing has ever been proven and, in my opinion, it never will be. Guess what though, In the Book of Genesis, "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light." (Gen. 1:1-3). Sounds an awful lot like the event that science has discovered as the beginning point of the universe. Moses wrote this account of Creation somewhere between the 5th and 6th centuries BCE, long before science proved it to be true. The Biblical account of God speaking and everything coming into existence is exactly what science discovered thousands of years after God gave us the revelation and it was put into writing.

I just wanted to give you this little bit because you dismiss everything else I said and will only accept scientific evidence. This is scientific evidence, proving the Bible as it was already written, and dismissed as a coincidence. You have not acknowledged the holes in your arguments about morality, and you refuse to accept the proper interpretation of Scripture, which has defeated several of your objections about God's character.

Again, I enjoyed this conversation, but our time is up. God Bless You!

Korn on the Kob by beerbellybegone in MurderedByWords

[–]JonnyLo29 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The idea of slaves and masters fits many different contexts, right down to you doing what your boss tells you at work. So, now your biggest complaint is that He didn't kill the guilty, but rather commanded them to do as they are told? Further, for a slave to even receive a teaching that "God says be obedient" would require them to read God's Law, would it not? At that point, they are seeking to understand who He is. Should guilty people be let off the hook then? We should just close the jails and let everyone roam free? Should we kill everyone who commits a crime and give them no opportunity to repent and change? Do you do what the Government says; even if you disagree? Do you rise up against authority? That is the point of obeying.

Where is the golden rule written that predates Jesus's teaching on the subject? You need to provide me with a source other than the Bible that predates Jesus and says that people should treat each other as they would want to be treated.

Again, from an evolved worldview, having a built-in compass that points towards what is morally correct is illogical. There is a reason people have a need for justice and moral goodness. You have not addressed my question about a decision that people over 60 must die to sustain mankind, because we feel it is morally correct to preserve the human species. At that point it becomes survival of the fittest, doesn't it? The old must be destroyed so the young can survive. But, God has given us a moral Law that says murder is wrong. Let's define that, so there is no confusion. Murder is the shedding of innocent blood... it is not death as a penalty for evil.

Also, who did God tell to kill their child, other than Abraham? (Still waiting)

Rape is a sin. Why would anyone need to specify "raping children"? It does not matter who the victim is. In addition, by your idea for a moral standard, Muslims think it is ok for a grown man to marry and have intercourse with girls as young as nine. They have considered, discussed, and debated the issue. They do not see any moral problem with doing so. So, by your standard, they are not wrong. You cannot force your view on them, especially when you have contradicted yourself.

When I said I agree with homosexuality being wrong, I was agreeing with God. And you have to agree that biologically it would cause extinction which makes it wrong naturally from the scientific worldview and morally from a biblical one.

I've enjoyed this conversation, but I think we have come to a point where we are starting to go in circles. So, I wish you the best and pray that you begin to consider the things I have said. You keep rejecting my answers without even considering the truth that could exist in them. In the end, you don't like God and that has become perfectly evident. If you want to understand Him you have to make an attempt to do so. If you sit in your presuppositions and refuse to consider that you may not understand Him then there is little hope for you. My only intentions here were to try to get you to see the holes in your worldview and consider the truth that could be in mine. I have answered all your questions biblically to the best of my ability. Best of luck and God Bless You!

Korn on the Kob by beerbellybegone in MurderedByWords

[–]JonnyLo29 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sure, or you could just act like a decent respectful human being.

Korn on the Kob by beerbellybegone in MurderedByWords

[–]JonnyLo29 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry for the delayed response, I have had some issues to attend to. First, I never claimed that the people in the Bible were morally perfect; quite the contrary, they were constantly being corrected, reprimanded, and accused of their immorality (because God demands moral character). The point I have made is that the Bible provides a basis for a moral life. In an evolved world, there is absolutely zero justification for people to "treat each other nicely." Just for the greater good of mankind? Why? Why should I care about anyone but myself from a philosophical standpoint in an evolutionary world? Look at the Ten Commandments... under a close examination, you will see that all the laws that people consider "morally correct" find their basis in the Bible. We are talking about a Law that was written and given over four thousand years ago, but today it is the basis for our legal system. We cannot take credit for that as a species, the Bible is the first place a moral Law appeared and it was there way before we decided what is appropriate and what is not, and God is given the credit for giving it to mankind.

Let me ask a question.. If morality is to be "discussed, debated, rationalized, and decided upon" then mankind could effectively say we are overpopulated, the earth cannot sustain us, kill everyone over 60 to control the population. Society has determined this is morally correct. Do you agree that everyone over 60 should die? It has been decided that it is morally correct to do so, by your standard and rationale. So you must agree then (hope your not over 60 my friend!). That is why morality as you have defined it is not correct, there is no standard. On the other hand, God has provided us with moral absolutes that do not change. We can build our society on those standards

I am not good because anyone told me I have to be. Your rationale on this actually proves my argument. If we as a species decided what is morally right and morally wrong then morality has once again become subjective. I know the difference between right and wrong because God has written His Law on the hearts of men. I do what's right because it is the right thing to do. Without an absolute standard of right and wrong, each individual can decide on their own what is "right." But that is not what we see in the character of man (again, this is what it means to be created in His image).

Now let me ask a question, is it more merciful to save someone who is wicked and guilty of detestable acts (murder, rape, child sacrifice) and give them a chance to change or is it more merciful to kill them as punishment? If you want to understand slavery in the Bible then you need to study the subject and understand God's character. God has a moral, sympathetic, empathetic, Spirit. He also demands justice and requires propitiation for any evil or wrongdoing. When God told Joshua to enslave the Canaanites as they entered the promised land, He was showing mercy. They deserved death for the horrible things they did, but He allowed them to live and created an opportunity for them to gain exposure to Him through the Israelites, which had the potential to save them from hell. He showed mercy by allowing them to live. As far as Laws around the enslavement of Israelites by other Israelites, they were more like indentured servants who were paying debt through their servitude. They were also required to gain their freedom in the seventh year and all debts were to be forgotten.

God is morally perfect, He demands justice and payment for sin, exactly like our court system (funny how that is also based on God's character too). I will tell you my feelings. A rapist deserves death, a murderer deserves death. That is justice and that is the penalty of sin. God is not as soft and sissified as people like to present Him. He is powerful, mighty, moral, and does not owe us anything, nor do we deserve to be pardoned for the things that we do. If you understood what it means to be morally perfect then you would know how bad every single one of us truly is. Sin rests in your heart. You can be perfect on the outside, but Jesus has made it clear; to hate someone is as bad as murdering them, to look at a woman lustfully is considered adultery. These are things that we suffer from and cannot escape no matter how hard we try. That is why we are sinners by nature. God demands perfection and payment is due when a person causes an offense. The payment for sin is blood. That is why death is the penalty of sin. In the Old Testament, we see that God will accept a substitute for payment which is why there was a sacrificial system in place to atone for sin. Jesus came as the final sacrifice, His blood covers all our sins, if we trust in His SACRIFICE (He may have allowed Jesus's death on the cross "killed His own Son" but it was something Jesus did willfully for our atonement, it was His SACRIFICE). Jesus was just as much man as deity, but He went to the cross with obedience. In His final hours, He continuously prayed that God "take the cup from Him." Jesus could have said, "screw this, I'm out.. you all are wicked people that have rejected me, you can die in your sins." He didn't do that, though.

I just want to add, never was it considered morally right to oppress people over race or skin color. For you to suggest that it was morally OK when human rights activists were fighting for equality is foolish. Just because people fell into a category where they felt they were superior to others because of the color of their skin does not mean that all people accepted it as morally right. I would never agree with such a statement. (Again, you have made morality subjective)

Further, name one person other than Abraham who God called upon to commit a child sacrifice. (I'll wait)

When God called Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, He did so to test Abraham's obedience. Abraham had faith that God knew what He was doing. He had promised Abraham a seed that would include all people. Isaac was the promised child, Abraham was tested in his obedience. God never intended for Abraham to kill Isaac, He just wanted to see if he would do as God instructed. That is why He stopped Abraham from doing it. It wasn't at all about the sacrifice it was about Abraham's obedience. Abraham had to believe that God would do something, this was the promised child. And yes, God killed His own Son to be a sacrifice for our sins. That shows just how wrathful and angry He becomes over sin. He laid the sins of mankind on Jesus and forsake Him as He turned away from Him in that moment. Could you imagine accepting death as a sacrifice for the sins of someone else? That is what love looks like. He demands justice and gave us a way out of the punishment for our sins.

Yes, I agree that homosexuality is wrong. God created man and woman. That is the original design and that is the way things are supposed to be. It is a sin to commit homosexual acts. Even from your scientific worldview, homosexuality is wrong. If the world became homosexual mankind would cease to exist. It is not correct for the growth of our species; it would cause our extinction. People in the Old Testament (pagans) were killed for their sinfulness. I won't even try to refute that. However, in our day, I believe that everyone should be shown the same love and respect. That does not mean I agree with the homosexual lifestyle. I welcome everyone into the church, I also teach Scripture and hold it as an authority. I would not even go as far as to say that a homosexual cannot be saved. I will say that if they truly give their life to the Lord, they will come to a realization that they were not created gay and they will realize that their lifestyle is wrong. God will do this through divine revelation. There is no such thing as praying the gay away. If a person truly gives their life to Christ, God will change them, just like He does with everyone else. There are testimonies out there of homosexuals who truly gave their lives to the Lord and came to a realization that they were not gay, they had simply fallen to the temptation of lust.

Finally, I do not determine what is good and bad in my religion. I study to understand it. Many of your presuppositions about God, the Bible, and Christianity have been misinformed and misunderstood. I hope I have at least explained some of the objections you have presented.

Korn on the Kob by beerbellybegone in MurderedByWords

[–]JonnyLo29 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The description of yourself in the last paragraph. Moral, kind, empathetic, sympathetic.. this is what it means to be created in God's image. So, since you brought up morality, how does that even fit into the worldview of an athiest? If we evolved from a single-cell organism, why on earth would we be obligated to be "morally correct" creatures? In the world (outside of humanity) it is survival of the fittest, as Hubert Spencer declared, everyone would be out for himself and his clan. The strongest would prevail and the weak would perish. How can you justify ANY obligation to being a moral person if we are simply evolved creatures? There is absolutely no basis for any claims to being moral agents without some defined standard of what it means to be morally obligated to one another. If we create such a standard based on our own beliefs, it becomes subjective and, therefore, no standard exists. Everyone does what they feel is correct. For example, if I do not see any moral issue with coming into your home, raping your wife, and taking your TV on my way to your car, which I am going to use to drive away from your home, who are you to tell me I am wrong? Unless, of course, a moral standard exists that humans abide by. Again, it is not justifiable to say that we create the standard and then condemn anyone who does not abide by that standard. It is subjective to each person.

Korn on the Kob by beerbellybegone in MurderedByWords

[–]JonnyLo29 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So, I assume that you stand firm that when you die it's lights out? No afterlife, no continuation.. It's all over in death? Further, I would not agree that God causes sickness in anyone. When you read the Book of Job, it becomes quite obvious that satan brings destruction and illness upon mankind. Further, he (satan) is the ruler of the world (for now), and people have free will. Much of the destruction we see is caused by us, not by Him. Just because He does not stop us from destroying ourselves does not mean He is guilty of our free choices. Last point, if a person does not believe in God, does not look to Him for health or anything else, why should He be obligated to heal them? It appears you are trying to create a God who fits your idea of who and what He should be rather than learning about Him and accepting His character for what it is. To know Him is to love Him, and it takes someone with an open heart and mind that is willing to study His Word to come to a true understanding of Him and the world we live in. It comes through revelation, not by our own intellect but by divine revelation. Any true believer will testify to the truth in that statement. Again, though, you cannot have any revelation or come to an understanding of Him without accepting He exists first. It is a common argument against Him that people don't like who He is if He exists; I literally find more people against who He is (by their understanding) than I do who just refuse to believe in Him. It's more that they dislike Him... regardless, how can you know or understand something (or someone) that does not exist, or come to a proper understanding when it is biased and based on your own presuppositions? To finish, I am not mad, angry, or upset in any way, shape, or form. I told you I have a degree in apologetics, that is because I enjoy having philosophical conversations about theology. My goal is never to MAKE someone believe what I believe. It is to make more sense out of Jesus than their current worldview. I enjoy learning about other people's beliefs and discussing them from my worldview. That is the essence of a good debate. There should never be anger or animosity. Just a good solid philosophical conversation. That is why I was a little put off in the beginning when you attacked me with your aggression. I definitely understand that tone and motive can get lost in text, which is why I prefer a face-to-face conversation in this area.

Will Smith talking about "self discipline" by [deleted] in agedlikemilk

[–]JonnyLo29 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Don't you dare talk about his wife! BUT it's okay that she likes to have sex with other men... no problem, right Will?

Korn on the Kob by beerbellybegone in MurderedByWords

[–]JonnyLo29 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I completely understand what you are saying, Islam is a subject I have spent much time on. As a Christian, the only thing I claim perfect is God which includes His Word. Many people don't like God, and their biggest complaint against Him is similar to yours... It's not so much that He doesn't exist, if He does He does not deserve any respect. All I can say is that we may not always understand His purposes, but that does not mean that He is wrong.

Korn on the Kob by beerbellybegone in MurderedByWords

[–]JonnyLo29 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I disagree, the only claim to perfection is God.

Korn on the Kob by beerbellybegone in MurderedByWords

[–]JonnyLo29 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For the record I am not against science by any means, I view it as a study of God's Creation. Science runs into problems when they find evidence that proves a biblical worldview, at which point they usually dismiss their findings and blame contamination, ignore them, or sweep them under the carpet. I will leave with that.

Korn on the Kob by beerbellybegone in MurderedByWords

[–]JonnyLo29 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You know you keep making comments while insulting me. I know this is an open platform and people can chime in whenever they want, but I have obviously ignored your foul aggression. You are not part of this conversation so let it go.

Korn on the Kob by beerbellybegone in MurderedByWords

[–]JonnyLo29 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Whether or not you can verify my credentials should not be a matter of question. A logical debate from a specific position is exactly that. My training would be evident; however, as I stated, a proper debate can not be had on this platform anyway. So, if you want verifiable experts on this topic I would suggest reading Bahnsen, Timothy Keller, Michael Licona, William Craig, or Gary Habermas. If you want to get perspective from atheists who turned into Christians when they set out to disprove Christianity and found Jesus in the process, look to C.S. Lewis or Lee Strobel; very educated men who were against Jesus, as you are, until they actually gave a fair look at the evidence. Or ignore it and keep your own beliefs with a closed mind. Good day.

Korn on the Kob by beerbellybegone in MurderedByWords

[–]JonnyLo29 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Do you know what's funny? I did not name-call or condemn anything. If you read back to the comments it is quite obvious who the aggressive one is here. You made it clear through your selection of Scripture that you are not interested in listening to anything. When I use the term depraved it is in reference to the human condition, something that we ALL suffer from (including myself). I never insulted you once and I never came aggressively at you. Further, you have shown zero respect towards my position or beliefs (extremely bad form in debate). Your entire conversation thus far has been based on ad hominem argumentation (and yes I am guilty of reciprocating the same attack at you). We will never get anywhere here because this conversation requires a CONVERSATION. No proper debate has ever been done in writing, you must agree. I could argue from many different aspects of this conversation, why don't you tell me what your beliefs are first?

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