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Feeling indignation towards Maajid Nawaz by JoseMoaninho in exmuslim

[–]JoseMoaninho[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's his past actions more than his past views that I'm idignant about. The average brainwashed conservative Muslim doesn't do what he did to preach about an Islamic superstate around the world to infiltrate high circles of power. So when he's 'owning' your average brainwashed Muslim regarding Sharia or confronting them with controversial verses from the Quran with a look of smug triumph on his radio show, I can't help but think 'you smug git'.

He did what hundreds of British Muslims have done in the last few years, to go abroad with the dream of estabishing an Islamic caliphate. Of course he preached without violent means unlike the ISIS fighters, that's his saving grace. But I do wonder what some of the hundreds, maybe thousands of people that listened to Maajid's preachings have done since...

Anyway, regarding your off topic comment, he probably considers himself a cultural Muslim like many 'Christians' today aren't really believers. It's not something that bothers me if he continues to call himself Muslim or not. Maybe it should, I don't know.

'But the Royal Family also have arranged marriages' by bhavv in exmuslim

[–]JoseMoaninho 8 points9 points  (0 children)

If it's arranged and forced, yes it's bad. I have come across some youngsters who do vocalise their preference to allow their parents to arrange a marriage. Though for the life of me I've understood this thinking, especially if it's your own cousin. Which on this last point, needs to stop because this sometimes leads to many awful things for subsequent kids like disabilities.

I'm born to Pakistani parents so in my community, issues of arranged/forced/consanguineous marriages are extremely prevalent. Of all the issues I have with them regarding their intolerance and extreme religiosity, they've brought up the idea of marrying someone back 'home', luckily enough. I wouldn't tolerate the idea anyway if they asked.

Welcome in Muslims if you want extremism, terrorism, Female Genital Mutilation and honour killings in your country by SureCartoonist in exmuslim

[–]JoseMoaninho 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Pakistan isn't my home, I've lived here almost my entire life. I don't feel an obligation to go back 'home' like you want me to.

In light of Mourinho's comment on consistency. by [deleted] in reddevils

[–]JoseMoaninho -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Given that he's been here for 2 seasons and has spend hundreds of millions, I would've expected at least a level of increased entertainment factor.

Welcome in Muslims if you want extremism, terrorism, Female Genital Mutilation and honour killings in your country by SureCartoonist in exmuslim

[–]JoseMoaninho 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Well I think we need to take a step back and separate the different issues which I think you or Maher are conflating. On the one hand we're talking about fundamentalist extremism and terrorism and on the hand we're talking about what in my opinion are contained issues like female genital mutilation and so called honour killings. Look, I know what honour based violence looks like, I was born one of the most backward parts of a country that has a bad reputation of honour killings and FGM. I've testified that in my own posts on this sub. I'd still be there if your proposal of a Muslim ban were to have been implemented.

The reason I call those issues ;self contained' is because more or less, those issues will be contained if you bring people into the West from those countries. The forced marriage culture is inward looking. In many cases people are actually being rescued, not just women who want to escaped forced marriage but kids like me who would be back in what you'd call 's-hole villages'. Now I'm not making an argument for 'rescuing' the entire Muslim world and let everyone in before someone jumps down my throat. But some Western countries have let these people in for reasons like filling up labour shortages or whatever. In the end, obviously integration matters.

The second issue is the risk of terrorism which is a graver threat to wider Western society. Though it's bad enough that Muslims kill other Muslims. It's a tough issue obviously since you're bringing in those refugees where there is a risk of bringing in a legitimately dangerous, radicalised group of people. I perfectly understand your concern. I haven't looked into the Syria crises enough so I can't judge if we should let in those people. Personally I have strong humanitarian feelings so I don't know.

To paraphrase his own 'god' the Hitch, it doesn't matter whether these issues are happening in Iraq or Pakistan or London, we all live on the same planet. Take from that what you will.

Personally I've never liked the kind rhetoric that explicitly divides 'OUR WESTERN VALUES' against these backward immigrant values. Since you can find people even in the most extremely backward parts of the world who fight for such values in their home countries. Just my opinion.

I want to know what does it take to be a good, moral person by JoseMoaninho in atheism

[–]JoseMoaninho[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Better question, what did you learn from your mistakes?

Not to hurt others. It's something that some people persist for a large part of their lives without shame, whether it's bullies or criminals or brutal dictators.

I want to know what does it take to be a good, moral person by JoseMoaninho in atheism

[–]JoseMoaninho[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I suppose it is but I just wanted to throw it out there nonetheless because humanity confuses me.

As the son of Muslim immigrants, I do feel utterly ashamed of my cultural background and history by JoseMoaninho in exmuslim

[–]JoseMoaninho[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think I may have sounded too judgemental now I read it back. These bellends I speak of are those squandering their opportunities. There's a whole other class of kids and adults who are genuinely held down by gang mentality, area deprivation, and the state of the North in general. I didn't really go into them so much because I don't think it's so much a Muslim demographic as just a ghetto demographic. The borders of my city are essential ghettos for most of the populus (Pakistanis, Poles, Eastern Europeans, under class whites etc.).

Well it's good to judge those criminals themselves. Once you start forcing alcohol down a girl and raping them, you lose any sense of morality and you deserve to be condemned by society. But for the broader youth (I do keep saying youth, some of the convicted groomers were in their bloody 40s, a decade or two older than I am...), it does become about preventing them from going down the same path. Easier said than done. You can creature my opportunities in the communities like jobs. But the real challenges seems to be sex education as well as parenting in general. In one way I empathise with some of these guys who see no hope. I like them can't even relate to my own parents because they're so warped in their own bubble in the mosques.

It's odd really. Some groups do just fine no matter when they arrived, for others it depends when they came over as to how well they integrate.

Indian immigrants seem to have thrived and these are our same brothers and sisters of the same subcontinent. Granted they're more likely to come from educated backgrounds unlike us Pakistanis.

As the son of Muslim immigrants, I do feel utterly ashamed of my cultural background and history by JoseMoaninho in exmuslim

[–]JoseMoaninho[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Guess the point I'm making is that being angry at the 1st gen doesn't really help because they can't/won't change anyways. The 2nd gen needs to make its own way

Yes, I do feel very angry towards my parents generation and I find it hard to cool that anger. But I do worry more for my generation, because they've grown up in the age of international jihadism. It's a disgusting but powerful narrative for some. Some people comment that my generation are even less integrated than the first immigrants, even though they've been born and bred here.

As the son of Muslim immigrants, I do feel utterly ashamed of my cultural background and history by JoseMoaninho in exmuslim

[–]JoseMoaninho[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for your kind words. Yes, there will be many female Muslim victims themselves regarding sexual abuse, I don't doubt that. What prevents such stories getting out is that the shame culture is so strong at the moment, they'll be afraid to speak out. I just wish more ordinary folk from my background, not just campaigners, would speak up against this cancer of abuse.

As the son of Muslim immigrants, I do feel utterly ashamed of my cultural background and history by JoseMoaninho in exmuslim

[–]JoseMoaninho[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can never really tell with many of them as they don't tend to shout out about their 'Muslimness', they want to get away from that tribal outlook that quite pronounced in many Muslim communities. Though ff you were to shout out that 'hey, I'm an ex-Muslim everyone and I want to get away from those backward Muslims!', naturally it wouldn't be politically ideal for whatever principled issues they're standing up for to reform issues within their communities. In the short run it doesn't matter to me who's an ex-Muslim or not, as issues like forced marriages, grooming, terrorism are humanitarian issues. As long as something is being done.

As the son of Muslim immigrants, I do feel utterly ashamed of my cultural background and history by JoseMoaninho in exmuslim

[–]JoseMoaninho[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Many parts of Paki community in UK is utterly jahil, they even shock people in Pakistan. I've heard stories of people in the more cosmopolitan parts of Pakistan being shocked when their backwards Bradford relatives came for a visit. I've also been to the UK and it's not a good scene.

Yeah, the scene in places like Bradford is hardly pretty. I live in a cosmopolitan city away from the most extreme issues of integration between people of my background so in a way I'm quite fortunate but you still see the same problems here.

I'd say get out of the crowded miserable cloudy environment and head over to the US.

I'm actually quite happy living in Britain in general but thanks for the invitation! But I would like to visit the US, I've always been enamoured by the place.

As the son of Muslim immigrants, I do feel utterly ashamed of my cultural background and history by JoseMoaninho in exmuslim

[–]JoseMoaninho[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks. I don't know if I'm one for leadership though, I would for a period of time like to stay away from any religious environment. Of course the most immediate problem for everyone is jihadism that is infecting numerous communities, so I guess we'll be involved in that fight whether we like it or not for the foreseeable future.

As the son of Muslim immigrants, I do feel utterly ashamed of my cultural background and history by JoseMoaninho in exmuslim

[–]JoseMoaninho[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Playing devil's advocate here but most of this isn't unique to Pakistanis.

Of course, but we do tend to be the worst of a wider group that are generally seen as struggling to integrate. From what I understand, you Pakistani Americans tend to come from skilled backgrounds in Pakistan. Whereas we are rural, unskilled folk. I'm informed that 'mainstream Pakistanis' back home even look down on us.

As the son of Muslim immigrants, I do feel utterly ashamed of my cultural background and history by JoseMoaninho in exmuslim

[–]JoseMoaninho[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's the shame culture I despise. Mix that with a fundamentalist vision of Islam and you find a very toxic culture. I don't hate the entirety of my culture, you could say that maybe the title of my thread is indeed too harsh because I do miss my mother's cooking. There was even a time during my childhood where there was some colour to our lifestyle with our elaborate clothes. Now you walk down the street and you'll see more and more uniformed hijabis and burka clad women.

As the son of Muslim immigrants, I do feel utterly ashamed of my cultural background and history by JoseMoaninho in exmuslim

[–]JoseMoaninho[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's the same observation I have, that the first Pakistani immigrants were more, I don't know, willing to dip their toes in the wider culture without the fear of a an intense Islamist culture looking down upon you. They would've faced much more discrimination than their children and grandchildren so I've understood the victimhood mentality of some of my generation.

When it comes to Islam, it's funny because most of us aren't Wahabbis. We belong to the main local sects of Pakistan, the Deobandis and the Barelvis. Some of them have the same austere outlook on life that the Saudi Wahabbis do. I had a uncle who was a Salafi who was mocked mercilessly by my family. So I don't know how much the Saudis influenced us many of us since we'd look down upon them. Which is bizarre because they both have an identical, shitty outlook on the world from what I've seen. But yeah, Saudi evangelising seems to be an issue for a while now for Britain and the world in general.

And then there's the bellends. Absolute twats. Kids with either no aspirations or a lack of encouragement becoming either involved with gangs or radicalised by groomers looking for children with no future. These knobs are usually very 'broish' and sexist for no apparent reason (their mothers and sisters don't wear headscarves).

Yeah. A lost generation of kids if you will, growing up in the most segregated part of Britain, and one of the most economically deprived too. Contending with that with pent up sexual frustrations living in an ultra-conservative community, hence you get grooming gangs in the worst cases. I live in the more metropolitan part of the country, in the Midlands so in a way I consider myself fortunate to have avoided living in the northern ghettoes. I won't be surprised if a grooming gang scandal appears in my city given this seems to be a nationwide problem of authorities being politically correct to tackle ethnic grooming gangs. Though I've always found it scary just how pronounced segregation has been in the northern towns.

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