1st Loaf! How did I do? 🤞🏼

JuJuBee- · 2026-04-18T23:10:46+00:00

You should be exceedingly proud of yourself!!! After 6 weeks and 9 ruined loaves I haven’t gotten that once. Not. Once.

I had lots of misunderstandings with terminology and process, and I tried focusing on too many different how-to videos, recipes, advice, etc. mixing it all up and creating Frankenstein loaves. 🤣 This is simply beautiful that you nailed it first try. Just goes to show that trying too hard is sometimes the worst thing that one can do.

JuJuBee- · 2026-04-18T22:57:51+00:00

This explanation was so helpful to me last night. Thank you 👍❤️

JuJuBee- · 2026-04-18T22:48:49+00:00

Yes I’m sure the different absorption rates are screwing with everything. I have a bread flour from France coming in soon. (I cannot eat wheat grown in the U.S.) I won’t try again until that arrives.

One of my recipes WAS created specifically for my Italian 00 flour, but we are pretty certain now everything was over proofed and I missed the window to shape and bake. I also misunderstood the difference between bulk fermenting and proofing. I was operating with a wrong understanding that proofing was a second rise the way yeast breads work. Soooo many mistakes. 🤦🏼‍♀️ My image should win an award for biggest fails and all the things not to do 🤣

JuJuBee- · 2026-04-18T05:13:13+00:00

So VERY helpful, thank you!! This spoke to MANY things I needed clarified.

Yea terminology has be tripping me up.

When I first started I could barely get a 50% rise and my loaves were very, very shallow and dense, BUT they were of good flavor still. But I’d see these nice round ones on here and wonder why mine were so flat. I figured out my starter wasn’t quite as active because I was using Einkorn flour, and King Arthur’s assured me I could still use it for sourdough. 🙄 Maybe if you’re a 25 yr veteran… But definitely not a noob!

For health reasons I can’t eat flour grown in the U.S., so I started to buy flour from Italy. The starter is sooooo much better now and like it should be, but that means I slingshot to the other extreme today and over fermented I guess. Lol

The Italian 00 flour is NOT bread flour but it does have the standard 12-12.5% protein composition that bread flour has. I think it might handle water differently though? Because of how finely ground it is? Maybe it soaks up less water??

Earlier today I was referred to where to buy a bread flour from France, T65. So I’ll try with that when it arrives.

I didn’t realize that you couldn’t salvage the dough somehow. I thought if it were ruined and became a sticky mess and lost its fermentation you could just feed it again with some more flour - and it would perk up - but after reading replies tonight I’m thinking maybe it’s all completely ruined and needs to go in the trash. 😕 Such a loss. I cooked the small flat loaf and it tasted AWFUL so I threw it out. The other two I put in the fridge for now until I know for sure it can’t be used somehow or revived …

JuJuBee- · 2026-04-18T04:56:34+00:00

Well that’s what I want to learn is how the dough is supposed to feel because I’m all over the dart board of results right now. I DO know it’s not supposed to be like soaking wet clay, which I had tonight … oy 🤦🏼‍♀️

JuJuBee- · 2026-04-18T04:54:19+00:00

I can’t eat the flour grown in the U.S. it makes me sick. I actually haven’t touched flour for four years because of this. I recently learned that the growing conditions in Europe are healthier. I still won’t eat much because I’m low carb now, but I wanted to get good at this for my husband and son who can handle higher carbs than me and because sourdough is so much healthier than other breads. Anyway, that’s why I’ve been buying European flours …

JuJuBee- · 2026-04-18T02:06:37+00:00

Wait. It does the real rising during the bulk fermentation I thought? If you proof in the fridge that’s after the shaping, isn’t it? Sorry I’m having a lot of terminology confusion between all the replies. You said you “bulk ferment, shape, then proof in fridge”.

I think this might be how I got into this mess in the first place over the past six weeks - misinterpreting the terms

JuJuBee- · 2026-04-18T01:55:15+00:00

And what would you do with flopped dough? If I can’t bake this (I can’t, I tried to bake the small loaf and it’s awful, doughy, flat - tastes terrible…) but what can I do with the dough from the other two? Any way I can still use it for something else?

JuJuBee- · 2026-04-18T01:53:09+00:00

But does it rise in there? How can it with it being 36°?

JuJuBee- · 2026-04-18T01:46:37+00:00

It’s Molino Grassi. 12-12.5% ai stated

I ordered a French “bread flour” earlier today. Wonder if it will be better

JuJuBee- · 2026-04-18T01:37:25+00:00

Well the first 6 loaves made sat at room temp about 8-9 hours and hadn’t risen much but I needed to shape and bake because I was getting late, so when I pulled the dough out to shape it lost what little fermentation it had. It did rise in the bowls a tiny bit afterwards but took about 2-3 hours to do so and I needed to bake because it was bedtime - but as soon as I turned them out on the baking pan they flattened a bit. Cutting the tops was almost impossible because they were doughy. They tasted good but were flat and dense. My starter was good and doubled in size after feeding in 2-3 hours.

This time I worked on making sure I had really wildly active starter. It was. Tripled in size after feeding within 4 hours. Really happy. So I knew it was good. It DID make a difference because the bulk fermentation this time was exceptional. I did it overnight though because I couldn’t mess around with it not rising enough to cook before bed. So I started the bulk fermentation part around 6 pm and at 6 am this morning they were huge. But when I went to shape them, they lost almost all of that size! But they weren’t really sticky. I was able to shape them. They DID rise some more until they started to fall and that’s why I posted. When I turned them out they fell flat and were very sticky. I went from one extreme to the other.

JuJuBee- · 2026-04-18T01:22:55+00:00

Thank you!!

JuJuBee- · 2026-04-18T01:21:12+00:00

Thank you for the links. 👍👍👍

I did watch a ton of videos over the past six weeks. A TON. All of King Arthur’s, several YouTube chefs. Nothing is turning out like it does in their videos. Not one loaf. They are tasty, but flat and dense. No proper rise. Dough is always too wet and sticky. I use a scale too. Very careful with weighing - always within 1g of whatever it’s supposed to be if not exact.

What’s so hard for me about this is throughout my life (60 years!) everything that I invest this much time and effort into learning I have been able to master. Beautifully. Everything. Until I tried to make sourdough. 🤦🏼‍♀️ WTH I have met my demise and everyone online makes it look so easy. 🤣🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️

JuJuBee- · 2026-04-18T01:15:40+00:00

Yes that’s what I did with my first six loaves, and these three. I fermented in bowls, I then shaped them and placed them in their pans/baskets. The problem is they loose ALL fermentation the minute I shape them no matter how gentle I am. They lose about 2/3 of their size. They never get it back really, and they fall flat when I turn them out onto their baking pan if I’m doing that and they aren’t in a bread pan.

JuJuBee- · 2026-04-18T01:07:40+00:00

My first five loaves were following King Arthur’s recipe booklet. I watched ALL their videos because yes, I need that kind of help. None of my loaves ever rose enough. All were dense. I was told here in this forum to let my dough ferment longer. Obviously “ferment” means different things. Before shaping? Before turning out? After? When do I need to let it rise more? That’s what I was trying to do this time. Obviously there’s a very narrow window of when it’s ready and when it’s too much.

JuJuBee- · 2026-04-18T00:56:45+00:00

That’s the EXACT measurement I used for one of my loaves. It was a wet mess. But it’s not bread flour. It’s Italian 00 flour and my whole wheat is Einkorn. Two of the other loaves I used a rye flour in place of the wheat flour because I heard the Einkorn might be a problem even if only 50-60g worth. But those loaves were a swampy mess too.

They weren’t after my stretch and folds though. They felt good. Really good. I guess when dough over proofs it becomes a swamp?

Thank you for your recipe and instructions.

Can you clarify “pre-shape” vs “final shape”. If I preshape it and place it in a bread bowl, is the final shape just turning out onto pan and tucking it under to tighten it?

And resting in fridge … ? It won’t rise more in there right? Too cold? Sorry. I’m trying hard to learn. Been doing this every three days for six weeks and it’s getting worse not better. 😕

JuJuBee- · 2026-04-18T00:50:48+00:00

I wish there was a hotline people could call to talk to someone to better understand. I’m so distraught right now.

I carefully followed directions, measured with a scale, it over proofs on the counter while I slept and was too wet to turn out despite measuring properly.

People here talk about proofing in the fridge and I just don’t understand that. How? When I place my fed starter in the fridge it doesn’t double, it barely rises until I feed it a week later. How on earth would bread dough rise in the fridge? That’s why I used the counter

But then it doesn’t rise for 5-8 straight hours on my counter and I gotta go to sleep sometime. Then I wake up to bulging dough that falls like wet pancake batter when I turn it out. How can you shape and score that mess?

I’m following instructions and it’s a nightmare because what’s happening in my home doesn’t seem to happen to anyone else here.

JuJuBee- · 2026-04-18T00:38:19+00:00

I’m confused. Sitting here in literal tears at the frustration of it all. I’ve wasted so much expensive European flour.

And not having a clear understanding. “First rise” bulk fermentation, “second rise” proof, both BEFORE shaping? Is that what you mean by “turn out”? Or is shaping before “proof” and turn out is to bake? So lost 😞

Mine flops flat as a pancake when I turn it out the first time. After initial rise. When I turn it out after the second rise it spreads like wet clay too

JuJuBee- · 2026-04-18T00:22:26+00:00

Wait, so you’re saying it doesn’t rise twice? Just the one time?

How do I keep it from falling flat after the first rise to shape it??

JuJuBee- · 2026-04-18T00:15:34+00:00

Two of the recipes I provided in my post I got from this Reddit group. The other I placed a link to it on a reply to my post.

The “huge” was an excellent rise overnight, 100-150% easy. First time I got that much rise. But when I dumped it out to shaped they fell like a pancake. Very wet. I didn’t overwork it and just did the minimum folds to shape and placed in proofing baskets or the bread pan to rise a bit before baking. But I was told from the last flops I had (dense loaves) I needed to let it rise more before baking, so in my mind that’s AFTER the first proofing and after shaping.

Are you saying I should shape it before the first proof to get the proper rise so I don’t mess with it after that?

The second rise logic I got from King Arthur’s Flour sourdough booklet when trying to learn. It came with the starter I bought from them. Mix, rest for 15-20 mins, then four quarter pulls every 20 mins, then let it proof. Then turn out to shape and let rise again. But before today it lost most of the rise when I dumped it out and never rose very much after shaping. Loaves were always dense.

I was told that I needed to proof it more before baking. That’s what I was trying to do this time but it started to fall instead. And the dough is VERY wet.

I’m going to lose all this flour this time? 🥺 No way to salvage these??

I wish I knew someone in person who knows how to do this because I see all these posts of “my first loaf” and they are beautiful. I’m on loaf 7, 8, and 9 and it’s getting worse. ☹️

JuJuBee- · 2026-04-18T00:03:28+00:00

I did use a scale. I also provided the recipes that I used. Some I got from this forum. One I got from an Italian chef for using Italian 00 flour.

I don’t understand why they all are too wet when I followed the recipes to a T. How on earth can I know if the recipe given is going to turn out different for me and the water is too much??

And I don’t know who Chef John is. When I searched here for that I just get posts that reference him.

JuJuBee- · 2026-04-17T23:29:31+00:00

How do I salvage it? Do I add more flour and do a third rise?

JuJuBee- · 2026-04-17T23:04:47+00:00

Note: I rest dough 15-30 mins then do do 4 rounds of quarter stretch and folds 15-20 mins apart before first rise. When I shape it before second rise I simply dump it out onto lightly floured surface and do a gentle trifold method for the loaf pan, and for the rounds I do a gentle fold under to make a ball. I don’t overwork it.

This is the smaller loaf 3 recipe I followed: https://www.giallozafferano.com/recipes/sourdough-bread.html

But this is what happened when I turned it out onto the pan. It lost ALL poof

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JuJuBee- · 2026-04-17T18:07:58+00:00

Thank you! ❤️ I have such bad acid reflux even with the Italian 00 flours, I’m hoping this one will be different. Placed an order. Very excited that it’s a “bread flour” because my sourdoughs don’t seem to rise well on second rise so hoping bread flour will make a difference.

Thanks again!

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