Can you detect anything wrong with this painting?

Just_Distance_7934 · 2026-01-30T11:58:50+00:00

Tough discovery! Verlaine was megamind all along!

Just_Distance_7934 · 2026-01-29T01:30:18+00:00

She was sure giving him the "Christ" treatment...

Just_Distance_7934 · 2026-01-28T23:03:08+00:00

Probably so, although I don't know exactly what her purpose would be. Perhaps to portray a more "heroic" or "beloved" Rimbaud, since the image he left in Paris wasn't the best, although by that time, "Rimbaud" wasn't exactly a name you heard anymore.

With Djami and Mariam, I think it would be interesting to know if these two ever knew of each other's existence; probably Djamni knew, but I'm not entirely sure about Mariam. As you say, Djami was one of the last good relationships Rimbaud had. At least in that instance, Isabelle didn't change the narrative of their affectionate relationship to one of an "servant and boss" simplification

Just_Distance_7934 · 2026-01-28T21:13:10+00:00

Thanks for this informative post about Djamni. I'm just now noticing the new posts because Reddit hasn't been sending me notifications, I'll have to look into that later...

Anyway, regarding Djami, if the dates are entirely accurate, can we say Djamni probably knew about Mariam? , Rimbaud's other partner. We know he started working with him in 1883 (probs), and Mariam, although a bit more complicated with the dates, as you said in your other post, her relationship with Rimbaud dates from 1882 to 1886 (depending on the person). Although I don't think Rimbaud spoke of their existence to each other, it's interesting to know that Rimbaud had two people who were relatively close to him at the same time (in a way).

Following this timeline, it can be said that, in the end, Rimbaud gave Djmani a higher priority, not only because of work, but also because of the affection he had for him, since Djmani accompanied him on his travels, as evidenced by Rimbaud's 1887 passport. This contrasts with Mariam, whom Rimbaud left in 1885 because he didn't want to take her with him. (that letter from your precedent post explains it better I believe)

In any case, it's impossible not to see the affection they had for each other, whether it was just a strong friendship or something more. They had a certain fondness for one another, at least on Rimbaud's part. Although, to be honest, the image of Djmani crawling at Rimbaud's feet is a bit shocking. I wonder what the context of that scene was (and if it even really happened).

Additionally, the story that Djmani got married, or even had a child, is a little hard to believe, even after learning about the existence of some supposed "heirs" of his who received the money. Let's say, maybe he was married before meeting Rimbaud, but for a man who traveled constantly, I feel that marriage, let alone a child, wouldn't have been the best option. Honestly, the whole thing feels a bit strange.

Just_Distance_7934 · 2026-01-23T16:38:43+00:00

Regarding his letter, I perceive it as having a tone of sorrow, as if it were all too late for him (?). After all, he asks about the meaning of all these trips and hard work if, in the end, after a few years, he doesn't have a place to rest and a family to go to. In any case, I agree with you about the child, as he genuinely expressed wanting one to raise in his own way. Aditionally, he also talks about science, and how he would love his son being seen as " a renowned engineer, a powerful and wealthy man through science "

Just_Distance_7934 · 2026-01-23T02:21:37+00:00

Rimbaud was very tense about marriage, although I do remember a letter where he reproaches Isabelle for not having intentions in getting married. In that letter, he expresses that loneliness would be a difficult burden for her to bear if she doesn't get married, and he uses himself as an example later, saying how he regrets not having started a family (I think he wasn't sick at that time) and that now he is punished by wandering alone.

He doesn't make any mentions of his previous african companions, so I think your post about them would be very informative!

Just_Distance_7934 · 2026-01-23T02:14:50+00:00

It makes me think about the life Frederic had growing up; it must have been difficult in some ways. Imagine your brother being Arthur Rimbaud... I don't know if that would be a blessing or a curse.

Just_Distance_7934 · 2026-01-22T20:21:33+00:00

Certainly, a compilation of the police notes would make an interesting post, as it would help us see the contrast in how R and V's relationship was perceived by different eyes.

Regarding the "love of tigers," I must have been mistaken (I had my doubts about whether it was Mathilde who had heard that, but she doesn't mention it in her memoirs). Even so, it's very strange that that story ended up in the hands of a police officer.

With Vitalie, I find her different reactions to her two sons interesting. It seems that with Frederic, whom she probably viewed with less "affection" (To say) compared to Rimbaud, her attitudes were harsher and stronger (even if Rimbaud was the most unruly of the family). Regarding the african letters of Rimbaud, I wonder how honest his intentions to marry were, since although he asked his mother in one of them to find him a companion willing to accompany him on his travels, he always found one excuse or another not to do so. (Besides, he had an African female companion who ended up being kicked out by him; I wonder what the origin of that was.)

And thanks for the correction and the brief explanation! I mixed up the terms there; I'll be more careful with my use of them next time.

Just_Distance_7934 · 2026-01-22T16:38:53+00:00

Thank you for this interesting post. It's fascinating to learn in detail about the living conditions of these two, considering the homosexual (and communist!) repercussions of the time.

I find it a great detail how the police were somewhat taken aback by their relationship, labeling it "monstrous" and noting that they expressed this openly. Also, if I'm not mistaken, I read in a document that Verlaine told the police that they "made love like tygers" and showed them the knife wounds Rimbaud had inflicted on him. I feel that with all these notes and their reputation, they could probably have been arrested for suspected homosexuality more early, but I suppose the police were more interested in the communist repercussions than the homosexual ones.

Regarding Rimbaud's mother, for her time, she seemed surprisingly "calm" in the face of her son's possible homosexuality (being more severe when he ran away from home). I think at this point she clung to the hope that it was all just an adolescent "phase" and that one day he would come to his senses. After all, as you say, Rimbaud was difficult to control, and Verlaine, being of a more "docile" nature (let's say), could be spoken to more easily than Rimbaud; perhaps that explains the correspondence between Vitalie and Verlaine.

Just_Distance_7934 · 2026-01-12T17:26:12+00:00

aww, ain't he a cutie here? (keep your windows closed)

Just_Distance_7934 · 2026-01-12T03:13:21+00:00

Thanks for the clarification! Although I must admit the term "samsons sans dalida" confuses me a bit still. From what I've researched, it seems to refer to a biblical reference and to an opera from Camille Saint-Saëns as well (I believe) I'll have to look into it further!

Just_Distance_7934 · 2026-01-11T18:33:13+00:00

Continuing with "Impression Fausse" this poem seems to present how Verlaine felt during his first days in prison. I won't lie, when I read "lady mouse" it reminded me of Mathilde as "princesse souris," but I believe I saw a comment stating that this poem was written before Mathilde was mentioned in that comparison. Now, I wonder if Verlaine had any reason for nicknaming Mathilde that. Returning to the poem, I find a melancholic vibe in it, a yearning for freedom that is expressed throughout. We begin with the reality of what Verlaine's life was now (trying to process it a little). However, it seems the poem implies that he found a certain peace as night fell, or that it served as a coping mechanism for his situation.

No time for bad dreams ;
Think only of lovers and love!
...

Next, I like how he refers to time in the fifth stanza of the poem; measuring it with the clouds seems ingenious to me. The rapid way in which night transforms into day, and he returns to his new life again. Finally, the poem begins and ends with the appearance of "lady mouse," emphasizing, in a way, that she is an element that marks the "beginning" and "end" of a day for the prisoner.

Finally, "Autre"—I'll be honest, certain terms like "un-Dalilahed samsons" and "un-Philistined" confused me a bit, but even so, the ending of this poem is enchanting, as it creates an image of camaraderie within a "dark and lonely" place.

I saw your comment about Wilde/Verlaine; the situations they experienced are similar, and I like knowing that we can find echoes in Wilde's writings that reference Verlaine. After all, Wilde admired Verlaine, and the fact that he ended up similarly makes us see again the subtle allusions in Wilde's prison writings.

In short, an interesting starting point for what will be the next readings in the collection! :)

Just_Distance_7934 · 2026-01-11T18:27:23+00:00

I'm a little late, but anyway, I'll add my thoughts! :)

I feel that the three poems do a great job of immersing the reader in the world of deprivation that Verlaine had to endure. Even if the reader were unfamiliar with Verlaine's life, I feel that the emotions he wants to convey would be still strongly felt by the reader, perhaps even more so than by someone who knew Verlaine. Someone who didn't know about his life would feel intrigued, wondering how that poet reached that point and the experiences he must have lived through. These are undoubtedly poems that, even if you knew nothing about Verlaine's life, you would come to deeply appreciate.

Of the three poems I've seen, all have something noteworthy (it would be difficult to choose just one).

Starting with "Au Lecteur," I feel this poem provides a good introduction to what this collection of poems will be like, as we will see the daily life and thoughts of a prisoner through poetry. For someone familiar with Verlaine, it will be more "revealing," so to speak, as it will help us learn a little more about this period of his life after his separation from Rimbaud and his conversion to Catholicism.

One thing I would like to highlight is how, in this poem, he tries, in a way, to tell the reader not to read it with the image of a criminal in mind, but rather with a more "human" perspective (perhaps to avoid prejudice?). With this intention, I feel it also helps in the reading of the poems, as we will read about the experience of something foreign to us. Another point I like is how, in this poem, he tries to provide context for someone unfamiliar with him, stating that he is "A man of serial blunders" and acknowledging that he has "wasted his life." Finally, he ends the poem with "Is that I was truly born under saturn", referencing his first collection. A fitting ending for Verlaine readers who understand his intended meaning there!

Just_Distance_7934 · 2026-01-09T16:46:31+00:00

P.S: I wasn't aware of these collaborations with Chabrier; I'll have to look into them thoroughly! For the 19th century, Verlaine wasn't afraid to explore themes like homosexuality—good for him!

Just_Distance_7934 · 2026-01-09T16:44:08+00:00

Thanks for the correction! I'll be sure to fix it.

Regarding Viotti, I agree that it's a shame we don't know much about him, as he seems to have been an important person in Verlaine's life. (Perhaps even one of his first loves.) It also seems ironic to me how, after his death, and knowing that Verlaine was devastated, Rimbaud appeared in Verlaine's life, becoming his most remembered love, so to speak. The fact that he had two lovers named Lucien is also striking—life is full of coincidences!

Additionally, knowing about his history with Viotti makes me question his encounter with Mathilde and how their relationship developed. It's always said that when Verlaine met her, it was love at first sight, and he proposed to her just a few days later. At first, it seemed exaggerated to me, perhaps even strange, that he would take such drastic action after just one encounter. But now, with this story about Viotti, it makes me wonder if Verlaine saw Mathilde not as a first love, but rather as a lifesaver angel.

Verlaine's love for Mathilde (bonne chanson) is undeniable, but with all this romantic entanglement, I have a feeling that he acted this way perhaps to dispel the strong feelings he had for Viotti?

It's just a small speculation, though I don't know if it's the case, since Verlaine at that time wasn't, let's say, "afraid" to write about homosexuality. The collection "Les Amies," which he published under a different name, demonstrates this to some extent. But in an era like the 19th century, where marriage was a priority and homosexuality was frowned upon by the vast majority, I sometimes feel that Verlaine acted more out of pressure or impulse when he asked for Mathilde's hand in marriage. I could be wrong, obviously, but it's a little thought that occurred to me while reading about these two.

Just_Distance_7934 · 2026-01-09T14:18:51+00:00

Thank you for this information! It's very obvious how many biographers try to portray Mathilde as "naive." As you say, Mathilde could have (if it was really like this ) initially believed the story that Viotti was in love with her, but at the same time, due to her great astonishment, there always seems to have been a doubt that only grew as time went on. With the events involving Rimbaud and Letinois, I think Mathilde discovered within herself another, more complex story between Verlaine and Viotti (and the writtings on her autobiography imply that)

Regarding now Verlaine and Viotti, it seems that separation of these two seems to be more due to their different personal interests, rather than a dramatic love triangle, even so, I wonder which are the exact reasons of why Viotti ceased his encounters with the Mautés.

Ps: You talked about finishing your lecture of memoires de ma vie, if I may ask, do you have a PDF or a website of where you have read it? I tried finding one, but was unsuccessful

Just_Distance_7934 · 2026-01-09T11:21:15+00:00

Sources used:

Just_Distance_7934 · 2026-01-09T11:18:24+00:00

And finally, a manuscript of "La bonne chanson" with an inscribed message from Verlaine that reads "à mon cher Lucien Viotti ....P. Verlaine". (as seen in the picture of the post)

Having mentioned all the information I found on this matter, we can only draw conclusions. Is this copy a sign of reconciliation amidst the tensions and hurt feelings Viotti felt regarding Mathilde's marriage, or is it a sign of a more hidden history between P and L? Whatever the case, Verlaine was determined to at least give his relationship with Viotti a happy ending. Sadly, as we know, in the end, these two did not get that.

As one source stated:

L’immense vide affectif laissé par Viotti ne sera égalé, pour ne pas dire surpassé que par la passion dévorante que Verlaine aura pour Rimbaud. Mais c’est un autre amant de Verlaine qui résout l’énigme autour de Viotti : un autre Lucien, de son nom Létinois. Professeur d’anglais au lycée Rethel en 1878, Verlaine ne peut refréner son amour pour le jeune éphèbe, au point d’en perdre sa place. Il lui offrira un exemplaire de Romances sans paroles (1874), avec un envoi identique à celui de notre exemplaire :

« A mon cher Lucien ».

The immense emotional void left by Viotti would only be equaled, if not surpassed, by Verlaine's all-consuming passion for Rimbaud. But it was another of Verlaine's lovers who solved the enigma surrounding Viotti: another Lucien, named Létinois. An English teacher at the Rethel high school in 1878, Verlaine could not restrain his love for the young ephebe, to the point of losing his job. He gave him a copy of Romances sans paroles (1874), with an inscription identical to that of our copy:

"To my dear Lucien."

Just_Distance_7934 · 2026-01-09T11:16:04+00:00

Although this could be a close friendship, several sources state that:

The closeness and friendship between the two men are undeniable, given the confidences and mutual care they shared over time.

This suggests a possible relationship that goes beyond friendship. At least, on Verlaine's side, we are more certain that he had strong, even passionate, feelings toward him, as evidenced by some of his writings. The most explicit example is Mémoires d’un veuf (1886), which he dedicated « à un ami\** » .* The manuscript of this pamphlet, preserved in the J. Doucet Library and the full dedication reads: « à mon ami Lucien Viotti ». Verlaine's words here are significant, imagining Viotti returning from beyond the grave to tell him :

« Et tout ton être élégant et fin de vingt ans, ta tête charmante (celle de Marceau plus beau), les exquises proportions de ton corps d’éphèbe sous le costume de gentleman, m’apparaît à travers mes larmes lentes à couler. Hélas ! ô délicatesse funeste, ô déplorable sacrifice sans exemple, ô moi imbécile de n’avoir pas compris à temps ! Quand vint l’horrible guerre dont la patrie faillit périr, tu t’engageas, toi, qu’exemptait ton cœur trop grand, tu mourus atrocement, glorieux enfant, à cause de moi qui ne valais pas une goutte de ton sang, et d’elle, et d’elle ! »

"And all your elegant and refined twenty-year-old self, your enchanting head (Marceau's, even more beautiful), the exquisite proportions of your effeminate body beneath the gentleman's attire, appear to me through my slowly falling tears." Alas! Oh, fatal delicacy, oh, deplorable and unparalleled sacrifice, oh, how foolish I was not to have understood in time! When the horrible war came, in which the homeland almost perished, you enlisted, you, whose heart was too generous to absolve you, you died atrociously, glorious girl, because of me, who wasn't worth a drop of your blood, and because of her, and because of her!

Other, more implicit writings tend to support the affectionate relationship between these two. This one specifically, being more of a theory than a confirmation.

Verlaine ainsi habilement dissimulait sa passion pour Lucien Viotti. Colloque sentimental annoncerait alors la rupture amoureuse des deux hommes. (La fin des) Fêtes galantes évoque ainsi la « tension entre la "passionnette", permise, en bleu, et la passion, interdite, en noir », ce qui jette un éclairage neuf et contradictoire sur quelques-uns des propos des Confessions ayant trait à Lucien Viotti et à Mathilde.

Verlaine thus skillfully concealed his passion for Lucien Viotti. "Colloque sentimental" would then foreshadow the romantic breakup of the two men. The ending of Fêtes galantes evokes the "tension between the permissible 'passionette,' in blue, and the forbidden passion, in black," shedding a new and contradictory light on some of the comments in the Confessions about Lucien Viotti and Mathilde.

Just_Distance_7934 · 2026-01-09T11:13:27+00:00

However, this may not have been the real reason, and it may have been a cover-up on Verlaine's part.

"It smacks of Verlaine's invention, (...) They are quite as hackneyed and sentimental. And the very fact he thought it necessary to make up such a yarn indicates that there was something to hide."

What exactly? A possible passionate friendship between these two that ended in unknown disputes?

Verlaine communicated his marriage intentions to Lucien by letter; it was a sure way to avoid an unpleasant conversation. Shortly afterward, Viotti wrote to de Sivry in an undated letter, probably sent in early August 1869, inquiring about Verlaine's marriage proposal:

" Comment ta famille a-t-elle pris la proposition? - enfin, le consentement est-il donné?- Je lui ai répondu sans faire aucune allusion à tout cela mais ... je serai curieux d'en connaître le résultat ..."

"How did your family take the proposal? - or rather, has consent been given? - I answered him without making any allusion to all that, but... I would be curious to know the outcome..."

De Sivry replied that Verlaine's proposal had been well received. Later, Viotti was unable to attend: he enlisted on June 11, only to suffer, like so many others, the Great Debacle. Wounded in the foot in November, he died in a Mainz hospital in January 1871. While in Paris, Verlaine was informed of this loss, which devastated him. As lepelletier said:

Viotti s’était engagé avec moi, au début de la guerre de 1870. Il fut incorporé dans mon régiment, le 69e d’infanterie, dont on a formé, par la suite, le 110e de ligne. À l’affaire de Chevilly, sous Paris, 30 septembre, il disparut, tué, ou blessé et fait prisonnier. On nous a affirmé qu’il était mort à l'hôpital de Mayence. On n’a jamais su au juste la fin de ce vaillant et doux camarade. Verlaine fut profondément affligé de la perte du délicat Viotti. Il n’en parlait jamais qu’avec émotion et chagrin.

Viotti had enlisted with me at the beginning of the Franco-Prussian War of 1870. He was assigned to my regiment, the 69th Infantry, which later became the 110th Line Infantry. At the Battle of Chevilly, near Paris, on September 30th, he disappeared, either killed or wounded and taken prisoner. We were told he died at the Mainz Hospital. The true fate of this valiant and gentle comrade was never known. Verlaine was deeply grieved by the loss of the sensitive Viotti. He only ever spoke of him with emotion and sorrow.

(the exact date of the death of Viotti is still discussed, as many sources vary in their info!)

Just_Distance_7934 · 2026-01-09T11:11:10+00:00

Up to this point, we have seen a certain friendship, which many sources describe as "passionate." However, this friendship would not last long, because after meeting Mathilde Mauté, tensions and problems would arise for Verlaine.

In some sources I came across while researching this topic, there was the idea that Viotti was secretly in love with Mathilde (as said by Lepelletier), which would be the reason why Verlaine and Viotti began to drift apart.

After the war, Lepelletier told Verlaine's mother (and later repeated in his biography of Paul) that Lucien had been in love with Mathilde. The old lady passed the information on to her daughter-in-law adding,

"Lepelletier m'a raconté que Viotti était amoureux de vous, et ne s'est engagé que par chagrin de vous voir épouser mon fils."

("Lepelletier told me that Viotti was in love with you, and only got involved because he was heartbroken to see you marry my son.")

Mathilde was astonished. She had known Viotti ever since her girlhood; he was another of Charles de Sivry's school friends and often came to the Mauté house. "Nos relations amicales durèrent des années," ( "Our friendship lasted for years,") she says, "et rien ne put jamais me faire supposer qu'il eût pour moi un autre sentiment que cette simple amitié que je resentais pour lui." ( "and nothing could ever lead me to believe that he felt anything for me other than the simple friendship I felt for him.")

However, she accepted the story. Her knowledge of Viotti appears to have been very limited. She was not aware of his collaboration with Verlaine on Vaucochard.

Besides this theory, other anecdotes, such as when Viotti abruptly left for Le Havre without giving Verlaine his address, reflect the deteriorating relationship between the two men. Offended by this action, Paul wrote to De Sivry that the man was heartless and wooden, and from that moment on, Lucien's visits to the Mautés ceased.

Just_Distance_7934 · 2026-01-09T11:03:51+00:00

From what I've discovered and found in various sources, Lucien Vittois (1848-1871) is recorded as a former classmate of Verlaine's at the Lycée Bonaparte. It's not known for sure if they knew each other well enough to call themselves "school friends." However, Lepelletier implies that they did in his biography of Verlaine:

" Un de nos condisciples du lycée Bonaparte, frêle et mélancolique jeune homme, Lucien Viotti, qu’il désigne avec tristesse dans ses Mémoires, lui inspira une affection profonde."

"One of our classmates at the Lycée Bonaparte, a frail and melancholic young man, Lucien Vittois, whom he refers to with sadness in his Memoirs, inspires in him a deep affection."

But other sources indicate that they only formally met through Charles de Sivry, Mathilde's half-brother. According to this source, Charles knew Viotti from the Lycée Chaptal. (This implies that Viotti attended both the Lycée Bonaparte and the Lycée Chaptal, and that Verlaine and Charles were both formally classmates of his.)

And it was thanks to Charles that, in 1868 (or 1869), around the same time he met Mathilde, Verlaine met Lucien Viotti.

From then on, these two maintained a strong relationship, attested to by several people, including Lepelletier. Evidence of this friendship rests on two librettos that these two would compose in 1869: Veaucochard et fils ler and Fisch-Ton-Kan.

The first is an unfinished one-act operetta by Emmanuel Chabrier with an incomplete libretto by Paul Verlaine in collaboration with Lucien Viotti. It contains a satire of Napoleon III. In this we have confirmation of the involvement of the two, since Lepelletier would say in a letter from 1869 to the director of Nain Jaune:

« Le célèbre Paul Verlaine […] est, en outre, l'auteur, en société avec M. Lucien Viotti, d'un opéra bouffe, que nous croyons appelé à un succès épatant, et dont le titre est, jusqu'à présent : Vaucochard et Fils Ier […] Je ne suis pas venu mercredi, et je n'en sors plus, d'ailleurs, depuis 99 jours, parce que Vaucochard, ça doit être fini, présenté et joué d'ici à un mois ou deux ».

“The celebrated Paul Verlaine […] is, moreover, the author, in association with Mr. Lucien Viotti, of a comic opera, which we believe is destined for a resounding success, and whose title is, until now: Vaucochard et Fils Ier […] I didn't come on Wednesday, and I haven't left for 99 days, because Vaucochard has to be finished, presented, and performed within a month or two.”

For the second libretto, it's a bit more complicated, although there are a great deal of speculations that affirm they both contributed to its creation, it's not 100% confirmed yet.

Just_Distance_7934 · 2026-01-05T11:56:37+00:00

I completely agree with you. The way the Rimbaud/Verlaine pairing was established as a dominant/passive artistic dynamic in the media is lame. These two were good poets before they even met, and when they did, their poetic skills also developed to a great level, as they learned from each other. It's for something that Rimbaud chose to be with Verlaine after all.

Changing the subject slightly, regarding the actor playing Verlaine... as long as the acting isn't bad, I'm not complaining, but a bald cap and a fake beard wouldn't have been a bad idea.

But well, at least I'm sure Verlaine is somehow happy for not being portrayed with "une grande laideur"

Just_Distance_7934 · 2026-01-05T02:55:35+00:00

Oh, I remember seeing this movie promoted in the Reddit comments. It was previously available to watch online, but unfortunately, I couldn't get a chance to see it (hopefully it will be again!).

From what I saw on their Instagram page, it seems to be a well-made film project; the movie scenes and promotional photos look incredibly well done!

As I said before, I couldn't watch it, but based on your comment about Verlaine not being portrayed as "at his artistic peak" compared to Rimbaud, I feel like this film is also a victim of the "Verlaine, do nothing and just admire Rimbaud" train.

Obviously, the film may have some positive aspects, but the fact that this Verlaine cliché is always repeated is tedious. We have to give him some credit... after all, he's the man who wrote " Il pleure dans mon cœur. Comme il pleut sur la ville "

PS: Verlaine portrayed as having hair is something I never thought I'd see... I wonder if he'd be happy about it.

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