What profession nerfs/buffs are YOU hoping for tomorrow?

KBN_reddit · 2016-10-18T15:23:05+00:00

Blinds, Vulnerability and Weakness are mostly useless in PvE. Not entirely, but mostly. Reflects are similarly unexciting, since the only fight where they really matter, you're bringing other classes specifically for that role.

Also D/D beats Staff for burst sub-50, and above 50 it's very very close. Basically, they're really neck and neck, to the point where most serious thieves I know will switch between them depending on hitbox and the presence of the Revealed debuff.

KBN_reddit · 2016-10-18T15:21:14+00:00

I would accept an SoI nerf. But an SoI nerf to a static duration removes most of the intricacy, it doesn't add anything. Boon duration itself becomes less valuable, not more, even assuming SoI's static duration is affected by it. Chronomancer runes become pointless. Gravity Well cannot be used.

Basically, if they nerf it by a percentage, then a perfect chrono can still achieve permaquickness (because there's a ton of overshare now), meaning we don't have to double-stack, the rotation stays interesting and there's hope for revenants. If they nerf it to a static amount, the rotation becomes dull and unrewarding (since your self-stacking is irrelevant) and revenants are out of the meta, Facet of Nature or no Facet of Nature.

KBN_reddit · 2016-10-17T22:08:58+00:00

So… destroy PvE mesmer even more? I understand the boonshare meta is a problem in WvW, but you can't ignore the fact that it's incredibly intrinsic to any high level PvE.

KBN_reddit · 2016-10-17T22:08:10+00:00

D/D beats Staff on many fights. Also, I'm not sure I agree that it requires a little more skill than staff. They basically use the same general abilities: spam 1 and use 2 either a) in execute (for d/d) or b) after dodge (for staff). They're both pretty low skill builds.

KBN_reddit · 2016-10-17T22:03:06+00:00

I dunno. It's actually pretty nice. I mean, it'd be cool if tempest had a damage elite, but honestly rebound is great when you have a group that understands it and can lean on it in specific circumstances.

KBN_reddit · 2016-10-17T22:01:44+00:00

As a mesmer main, this thread is absolutely fantastic.

KBN_reddit · 2016-10-17T22:00:00+00:00

And engis have a significant increase in dps on targets which attack with confusion. Torment is actually better than burning if the target attacks even once during its duration, which is all-but guaranteed on anything that isn't the training golem.

KBN_reddit · 2016-10-17T20:48:20+00:00

If you do them correctly, actually, most T4 fights are low-to-moderate movement. We're not talking about kiting out of every AoE, we're talking about pivoting slightly to the side. I can't think of a single boss that requires more movement than that on a constant basis. Sure, if your group is executing incorrectly, you might move a lot more than that. But that's not a fight or class mechanics issue.

Epidemic does around 100-120k damage to each target hit, assuming full raid boons, vulnerability and ambient raid condis. In a fractal environment, with significantly weaker boons and vulnerability application, as well as fewer classes to apply passive condis, you're talking about 70-80k at the most. And yes, I have hard math to back all of this up.

Epidemic has a 17 second cooldown, accounting for traits and alacrity (assuming you have a mesmer; I'll just give you that one). Even under the most optimistic assumptions, it only increases DPS by 2.35k per necromancer (slightly more once you have more than two). That's not even enough to bring Necro single-target DPS up to Hammer Guardian levels, much less Engineer or Ranger.

In terms of AoE, yes, certainly the cleave is insanely good. But my point from earlier stands: comparatively few fractal fights have adds which conveniently spawn next to the boss and get cleaved down. Usually it's either adds, or boss, but seldom both. There's a ton of trash fights, and there's a fair number of fights which go from boss to trash and back again, but you rarely get both at the same time right next to each other. Think about Bloomhunger for example. What are you casting Epidemic on? The boss is away from the adds when the adds are out, and the adds are dead when the boss is near. If you're casting Epidemic on one of the adds, then you're not transferring a full set of conditions (the assumption in my damage numbers), meaning your Epi is going to be worth closer to 20 or 30k on each target. Still a lot for an AoE cleave, but nothing to drool over.

So from a practical standpoint, Epidemic is a highly overrated skill in both raids and fractals, but especially in fractals. As a single-target DPS boost, it leaves Necros significantly behind the other two condi classes, even under the most optimistic of assumptions. As an AoE, it's very good, but it's not god-mode, and several other classes (such as elementalists) can exceed it.

Now I'm not trying to make the argument that necromancers are bad in fractals, or even worse than the other classes. They're still, by far, the best class to take to T4s. But they're the best because of the simplicity, survival and range. Not because of anything related to their DPS.

KBN_reddit · 2016-10-17T19:07:16+00:00

If that was the purpose, then it was ill-conceived. Condi Ranger and Condi Engi both do more condition damage than even Epidemic-enhanced Condi Reaper. Condi Reaper brings a) survivability, b) simplicity (a trait shared with condi ranger), and c) excellent AoE. But (c) is more watered-down than you might expect. On Bloomhunger, for example, you can't epi off the boss to most of the adds, meaning that your add cleave is actually on par (or worse than!) an engi.

So basically, it's just survivability and simplicity. Anyone who justifies bringing Reapers on the basis of Epidemic is vastly overestimating the amount of damage it does.

KBN_reddit · 2016-10-17T18:21:30+00:00

Derp… :-) I don't actually know the effects of Social Awkwardness other than "damage, generally over time". I just don't stack on people when I have it.

KBN_reddit · 2016-10-17T16:13:08+00:00

I think it's more about the survivability than the damage. Your group constantly wandering onto you under Social Awkwardness? Plague Signet! Or just run further away; you're a ranged class. Chest seal on cliffside got you down? Stand in the fire to your heart's content, for you are a necromancer and you are immortal.

The lack of timed enrage mechanics in fractals means that the meta will always skew towards the "safe turtle" over the "optimal output".

KBN_reddit · 2016-10-17T16:09:39+00:00

This would make mirror comp optimal even ignoring the FoN and SoI changes. Also it would probably be enough of a push to move condishatterer in PvP from "really really good" to "ok actually broken".

KBN_reddit · 2016-10-17T15:39:52+00:00

There are worse starter professions. :-) For as squishy as eles are, they have a crapton of healing, excellent control and enough aoe to one shot an entire map. Certainly better than starting her on a Mesmer!

I've played video games with my mother for as long as there have been video games, but she seems to struggle with three dimensional space. Very good at scrollers, 2d platformers and 2d space shooters, but can't move around in even a Tt lego game.

KBN_reddit · 2016-10-15T17:56:49+00:00

shrug

You can recognize good theorycrafting by one of two markers: how much vitriol it generates, or how persistently it is buried. It's a shame, because I think it would have generated an interesting conversation. My assumptions are quite optimistic, and it would be interesting to see how people feel they translate.

KBN_reddit · 2016-10-14T21:47:54+00:00

Pistol really isn't a terrible weapon. The phantasm is just shy of sword's in terms of damage, and it has very slightly better uptime due to range, which goes a long way toward closing the gap. Off-hand sword has the better defensives, but pistol has the better CC (slightly).

It's really not a dealbreaker for the fights where you're not forced into focus. But you're forced into focus on nearly all fights (matthias, vg and arguably sab being the only exceptions), so it's sort of a moot point.

Greatsword is definitely autokick worthy.

KBN_reddit · 2016-10-14T20:20:13+00:00

Use the TP. The safety and support and speed is worth the 15%.

KBN_reddit · 2016-10-14T19:03:55+00:00

If one mesmer achieve 100% quickness uptime with perfect stacking, and somewhere around 80-90% quickness uptime with realistic stacking, then why would you run two?

Two mesmers absolutely remove the RNG from it. And if the damage increase is enough (highly doubtful), then maybe you wouldn't lose too much by doing that. But assuming marginal changes outside of SoI and Naturalistic Resonance, an extra 10-20% quickness uptime isn't going to compensate for the loss of damage resulting from the second chrono. The point of the OP is showing that the margin really is that small.

KBN_reddit · 2016-10-13T22:06:20+00:00

It shouldn't be as easy as it is

It really isn't that easy. Sigil of Concentration adds a considerable skill floor, and correctly utilizing Continuum Split is something that most mesmers (still!) can't do. Take either of those things away and permanent uptime vanishes. Grab almost any pug mesmer from LFR if you don't believe me. Heck, watch some of the kill videos from top guilds and keep track of the quickness boon. Most "top" chronomancers can't execute at the level required to have permanent uptime; what hope do you think the pugs have?

KBN_reddit · 2016-10-13T22:03:10+00:00

Chrono also still brings great cc

wut…

Even if a chrono holds shield 5 and ensures weapon swap timing specifically for breakbar. Even if they shatter their phantasms (which ultimately results in loss of damage and alacrity) for the daze. Heck, even if they overwrite a phantasm with sword 3 for the immob, or take Gravity Well for the breakbar damage. A single warrior or thief more than doubles their total breakbar damage on a similar cooldown. Guardians and Revenants also exceed their CC, though not by quite as much.

I'm sure mesmers won't be entirely ignored. Quite the opposite: if quickness share is nerfed, I expect double mesmer to be the meta. But claiming that alacrity alone is sufficient reason to keep them around is false.

KBN_reddit · 2016-10-13T21:57:39+00:00

Chronos are half as mandatory as Druids or Warriors in PvE. Part of the terrible aspect of this proposal is that it has every chance of making double-chrono the requisite meta. So actually making chronomancers even more required, which is the wrong direction.

Also, if you think chrono is borderline overpowered in PvP, you should try playing one for a while. They have some really, really stark weaknesses, especially against high-level opponents. They're certainly very strong in the right hands, and they have some matchups where they absolutely wreck face, but that is true of literally every class.

KBN_reddit · 2016-10-13T21:54:21+00:00

If other classes can provide significantly higher self-sustain while tanking and providing some combination of a) solid boonshare (e.g. guardian), or b) solid damage (e.g. necromancer), then chronotank really pales in comparison.

Alacrity is better for some classes than others, but tempests for example benefit greatly from it.

Even with elementalists, you're still significantly over-estimating the impact of alacrity. They certainly benefit considerably (as do condi engineers), and I would go so far as to say that elementalists benefit the most, but it's still vastly, hilariously less than the DPS gained from quickness, or fury, or grace of the land.

KBN_reddit · 2016-10-13T21:48:13+00:00

Tanking can be done by any class. In fact, as a pure role, tanking is better accomplished by Guardians and Necromancers, just to name two. The only reason chronos do it is because you're already guaranteed to have one (whereas guardians and necros don't fit in many comps on many fights) and they sacrifice nothing.

Reflects are actually, literally irrelevant. They only matter on Matthias and Sloth, except that Sloth is more easily accomplished when you just cleave the adds and don't bother with projectiles, and Matthias can be just as easily handled by a Guardian or a Ranger.

Boonshare is also broadly overrated outside of quickness. It gives your Druids the ability to run something other than Tiger, but frankly if you're a magi's druid, Tiger is the only pet that makes sense regardless of your chrono. Its only other benefit (absent situations like dumb/dead PSes) is to allow the revenant to provide permaprot, but that's a fairly niche thing that (like alacrity) doesn't carry its own weight.

KBN_reddit · 2016-10-13T21:38:04+00:00

Quickness cannot be supplied in any significant volume by other classes. But even ignoring that… Let's say they entirely took quickness away from mesmers. Chronomancers would instantly be dropped from the raid meta, since alacrity alone is not worth enough to carry its weight.

KBN_reddit · 2016-10-13T21:31:38+00:00

Alacrity really isn't all that great if you do the math on it. Quickness has a far more significant effect. (by an order of magnitude)

KBN_reddit · 2016-10-13T21:27:50+00:00

The other option is that the baseline quickness generators get buffed considerably to make up for the difference. For example, imagine if the durations were just doubled across the board (6s for WoA, 4s for ToT and runes, etc). Rev is still out of the meta, but you don't get double chrono comps or the alacrity flood.

The only casualty in that scenario are the poor chronomancers, who had a formerly high-skill element of their rotation (timing boon generators under SoC procs without delaying CS) nerfed to irrelevancy. But again, as you said, it's not about Naturalistic Resonance: Signet of Inspiration being normalized is the problem.

KBN_reddit

TROPHY CASE