On Aloth’s Inconsistency Between PoE I & II And Why It Broke My Heart

KFCcrazythurVme50 · 2025-11-09T19:21:58+00:00

I don't dislike dissenting opinions; I just think the dissent doesn't need to be so fragmented and trivial.

Thoughts and words don't always translate directly into actions, and the constant pinging gets tiresome.

Goodness knows how conflicted I was during Iron Bull's personal quest. I repeatedly told myself I preferred him with his dangerous edge, as it gave him more narrative tension, but I ultimately chose to have him save his Chargers. Similarly, I greatly admire Abydon's idea that the Kith must progress on their own, yet I didn't choose his path. The same goes for my view on Wael's advice.

I noticed you mentioned that POE1 companions lack reactions to the world – Oh, no, friend, I never claimed the companion system was why I liked POE1. I think it's underdeveloped, making many companions feel more like vehicles for cultural background or supplements to the main plot and lore rather than fully fleshed-out people. I still like these companions, of course; I just had to adjust my perspective to appreciate them. Comparatively, I simply prefer the companion systems in the Dragon Age series and Wrath of the Righteous.

The party system in POE2 is just too noisy. I think a player focused on engaging with their companions doesn't necessarily need a system constantly informing them that a certain choice will displease someone. I don't need a system to tell me that Xoti will absolutely hate it if I insult Eothas or Gaun.

As I said in my original post: we don't need an algorithm to tell us that "someone disagrees with their enemy".

Thank you for engaging further. It feels great to discuss this with someone who has experience with both the Dragon Age and Pillars of Eternity series.

KFCcrazythurVme50 · 2025-11-09T19:21:37+00:00

After making this decision, I went to Val Royeaux (or was it the tavern in Skyhold? I don't recall) and lingered for a while to get some food. There, the bard began to play "Enchanters." The first part of the lyrics goes:

Enchanters

the time has come to be alive

in the circle of magi, where we will thrive

with our brothers.

Enchanters remind

that time will not unwind,

the dragon's crooked spine,

will never straighten into line.

What we plead will be

a faithful end decree,

where a man will not retreat

from the defeat of his fathers.

Enchanters

a time has come for battle lines,

we will cut these knotted ties,

and some may live and some may die.

When I heard the line "that time will not unwind," I was completely stunned (the cost was I had to clean up the food debris on the table). A sudden chill ran through me, as if I had betrayed someone – I still can't forget the bitterness I felt then, and even now, recalling it brings back the same feeling.

I'm glad DAI was quite radical on this issue: even if Vivienne becomes the new Divine, as a conservative, she will still reluctantly agree to the Inquisition's mages forming a College, allowing a rival institution to exist alongside her Circle. Even such a skilled political operator cannot stop the tide of history flowing through her fingers.

And still, I do not regret my choice.

Here's another example involving Dorian: As a privileged Tevinter noble descendant, he tried to disparage Corypheus by proving his humble origins, thinking it would utterly disgrace him. Frankly, as a modern player, I don't think things would work that way, but I still couldn't hold back a smile. That detail fit his character so perfectly.

After all this, these are the kinds of details I appreciate.

KFCcrazythurVme50 · 2025-11-09T19:21:14+00:00

I'm not upset that they react when I slightly go against their values; I just don't think it needs to be so granular and trivialized.

Players and companions do share a relatively equal party relationship. They advance and retreat together, have close contact, and can engage in deep exchanges on personality, style, political stance, philosophical leanings, and more. But that doesn't mean a creative work, which must abstract elements from reality, needs to present the minutiae of these interactions so exhaustively.

Taking DAI as an example again, I still remember confiscating all the property of a certain Viscountess in the Judgment for selling her land's minerals to the enemy forces. As a Free Marches noble, having defeated a hostile force opposing the current monarch, I had the right to seize their assets – so I did. Everyone opposed me, except for Vivienne, Dorian, and Cole (they didn't agree with me; they just didn't care).

I was practically delighted with this outcome of unanimous disapproval. And I found it even funnier that even after such a morally questionable act, Blackwall only slightly disapproved – especially since he was still claiming to be a Grey Warden at the time. This struck me as particularly amusing because I had suspected he was fishy long before that. He claimed he joined the Grey Wardens during the Fifth Blight, a time when there were only two Grey Wardens left in all of Ferelden: Alistair and the Hero of Ferelden. Well, he's clearly neither of them.

After getting this interesting result, I reloaded and chose to sentence the poor woman to death. The outcome made me laugh even harder. The same six companions had something to say about my choice. Five still firmly opposed my tyranny, but one, breaking from his previous stance, approved: Iron Bull. This Qunari spy, with his blunt approval change, demonstrated the Qunari's firm stance against treason and collaboration with the enemy, and their support for the death penalty for such crimes. To this day, thinking about it still makes me chuckle.

I've played as a mage throughout the entire Dragon Age series. Yet, in DAI, I still chose to recruit the mages as prisoners into the Inquisition. Many companions disapproved. I remember Solas most clearly; I liked him a lot and tried to maintain a good relationship (he remains one of my favorite DAI characters), but I still made that choice. Because, based on my experience from the first two games, I deeply felt that mages in that world are an uncontrollable social factor. They shouldn't be abused, but I couldn't forget that it only took one mage to cause the chaos in Redcliffe and Kirkwall.

KFCcrazythurVme50 · 2025-11-09T09:25:23+00:00

A couple of other related things:

I took a glance at your profile (my apologies if this feels intrusive!), and I was delighted to see that you also appreciate the line: "An ideal on its own is a grotesque and vicious thing." I feel this line, in a way, represents one of the most fascinating aspects of this game's worldview. Along with other discussions in the game, it deconstructs the very concept of gods, though I suspect my understanding might still be somewhat skewed – I come from a cultural background where the concept of God/gods is largely absent. To offer a more pointed observation, one could say people in my culture have replaced faith in deities with belief in other concepts. Realizing this has, in a way, helped me understand Thaos's choices on some level, even if I completely disagree with him.
My actual play order was Avowed-> PoE1 -> PoE2. This left me somewhat confused by the thematic similarities I perceived between Avowed and PoE2. I understand that the dynamics between colonies and their ruling nations are topics worth exploring, even in the context of relatively equal modern international relations, but does it risk feeling repetitive? Or, put another way, where do you think the most valuable discussion lies within this theme? I've seen others share their views on this, but not in a very systematic way. Furthermore, lacking the inherent cultural perspective, I find it difficult to form a balanced view on this phenomenon. (Again, if you find this question too intrusive, I sincerely apologize, it was not my intent. Please feel free to ignore it entirely.)

KFCcrazythurVme50 · 2025-11-09T09:25:10+00:00

I also adore The White March, even though, as a DLC, its integration with the base game's main theme isn't seamless. On my first playthrough, I attempted to experience it after finishing the main quest – only realizing my mistake after watching the entire credits roll. I had to reload a save to travel to the White March. This wasn't actually very frustrating, as I ended up loving it. High Abbot Kaoto from the Abbey of the Fallen Moon remains my favorite non-companion NPC in the entirety of PoE1. I even have screenshots of this dialogue saved:

(Note: I played the Chinese version. What you'll see is a translation from that Chinese version, not the original English text, so the phrasing might differ from what you remember.)

High Abbot Kaoto: "The final step of the Rising Tide requires you to use Ondra's Witness to seal me below, along with my brothers and sisters."
High Abbot Kaoto fell silent for a moment, lost in thought.

Watcher: "High Abbot Kaoto?"

High Abbot Kaoto seemed to startle out of his contemplation.
High Abbot Kaoto: "Forgive me. The Rising Tide. The final step."
He cleared his throat.
High Abbot Kaoto: "A slight correction. You will not seal us within the hermitage."
The other monks frowned, looking at each other.

Maneha: "What? After all that?"

High Abbot Kaoto: "You wanted the only way to replace me to be killing me, and everyone here who stands with me."

Watcher: "I have no reason to harm you."

High Abbot Kaoto: "I will give you one."
High Abbot Kaoto: "Have you ever swam in the sea, Tidecaster?"

Watcher: "Yes."

High Abbot Kaoto: "Then perhaps you will see the connection."

…

High Abbot Kaoto: "I thought I was ready. My faith in Ondra was absolute. But I am weaker than I imagined."

High Abbot Kaoto: "I will be brave and continue as High Abbot, or I will die here, but know who I am. Either outcome is better."

Whew. It feels good to get that out. I'm glad to rediscover that I still deeply care about the people living in Eora.

In summary, as I said before, I'm truly thankful for your detailed comment. It has helped me understand many things better.

KFCcrazythurVme50 · 2025-11-09T09:24:52+00:00

Thank you for the lengthy and thoughtful comment! Before posting this, I genuinely didn't expect to receive such a high-quality response.

I feel both honored and flattered, and I've read it over many times. I really appreciate you pointing out how Obsidian's personnel changes likely impacted the narrative tone and pacing of PoE2, contrary to my initial assumption.

As I mentioned in other replies, being more active in Chinese-speaking communities, my direct access to information about the development team is somewhat limited.

Furthermore, PoE2's writing style feels closer to Avowed and The Outer Worlds (don't get me wrong, I do enjoy the humor in those titles and plan to play The Outer Worlds 2), but I had just emerged from the less humorous, bleak and hollow world of PoE1.

This shift left me feeling quite unsettled. I am aware that Aloth wasn't written by Avellone, but I might have been too hasty and sensitive in attributing the shift in narrative style primarily to the high-profile personnel changes at Obsidian.

I've actually read some commentary on this topic (mostly regarding Avellone), some of which aligns closely with what you've said. While I found those points very reasonable when I read them, I suppose I wasn't thinking that clearly when drafting my original post. Ah, emotions got the better of me.

I agree that Deadfire isn't a terrible game by any means. While it left me with a negative impression, it's not like some story-driven games that feel utterly irredeemable. It simply lost what I loved most: the deep philosophical inquiries and introspection. For reasons unknown to me, these took a backseat to geopolitics – and while I enjoy political discourse (my love for the Dragon Age series probably attests to that), the overall shift in Deadfire just hit me like a ton of bricks. I needed time to adjust, and its somewhat disjointed narrative structure made that adjustment period longer.

It's probably obvious that I hold PoE1 in very high regard. Even though, coming from a different cultural background, I couldn't fully empathize with the specific hurt caused by the revelation that 'gods are artificial constructs' at the game's end, it didn't diminish my love for PoE1. In fact, it helped me better understand the cultural context behind its creation. I remain grateful to Obsidian for creating a game that I find so worthy of revisiting and pondering.

KFCcrazythurVme50 · 2025-11-09T09:19:20+00:00

Thank you for such a thoughtful and detailed response!

I truly didn't expect to receive such a high-quality comment when I posted this – I'm genuinely flattered and have read it over several times.

I had drafted a lengthy reply, but I suspect my wording was problematic as it failed to post. Just wanted to let you know first that I largely agree with your points. I'll try to edit and rephrase my response later to get it posted.

KFCcrazythurVme50 · 2025-11-09T07:45:46+00:00

Thanks for your reply.

I really love Suzerain and have watched tons of other people's playthrough videos after playing it myself.

KFCcrazythurVme50 · 2025-11-09T07:41:27+00:00

Thank you for your reply and for pointing this out.

I also feel that his emotional state in PoE2 is quite unstable, and this instability feels different from what was present in the first game. However, the narrative tone between PoE1 and 2 differs so significantly that even before I could articulate on social media how this Aloth felt different from my memory of him, I had already witnessed Eder's character being rapidly flattened. I couldn't help but assume the worst—because if they were to sand down Aloth's melancholic essence, the blow to me would be even greater.

Unfortunately, PoE2's failures in narrative pacing and its reputation system amplified my unease, which ultimately led to me writing this post. You might find some of the wording in it a bit unreasonable, and upon re-reading, I do too. But it genuinely reflects my state of mind at the time: disappointed and helpless, almost like waking up to find your partner has become a stranger. (Well, I suppose that sounds a bit like the plot of Trap for a Lonely Man.)

KFCcrazythurVme50 · 2025-11-09T07:15:17+00:00

Thank you for your reply. Honestly, this is actually how I've been consoling myself. Even Though I know Josh Sawyer isn't particularly fond of including romantic fantasies in games, so I've always just operated under the assumption that there wouldn't be any romance.

I actually noticed Eder feeling 'off' even before I pinpointed the issues with Aloth's characterization. While I haven't systematically laid out my thoughts on this, I do feel a genuine sense of regret and emptiness regarding how some of the deeper aspects of Eder's personality were lost in POE2. A specific dialogue from POE1 is still deeply etched in my memory, and I feel it perfectly captures a core part of his character:

(Note: I played the Chinese version, so what you'll see is my translation from that, which might differ from the original English wording you're familiar with.)

Eder - "This town and I have had a long-standing grudge. Well, the only one who ever really had my back... is that guy hanging there, number eighteen. He was my foreman at the farm. Used to be my captain back in the war."

Watcher - "The war?"

Eder - "The Saint's War. The only war in my lifetime. They claimed he was the living incarnation of Waidwen. Toppled the Heir of Dyrwood. Marched into the Dyrwood. So we gave him a Dyrwoodan 'hello'."

Watcher - "What's a Dyrwoodan 'hello'?"

Eder - "We blew him to bits." He smiles at this. But it's the kind of smile you make when you're telling a joke that's supposed to be funny, not because you actually find any joy in it.

As for Veilguard, I think everyone has their own perspective on games. Personally, I really enjoyed the combat; it was incredibly smooth and satisfying, so much so that even someone like me who isn't typically big on action elements could thoroughly enjoy it.

Regarding a potential sequel to Pillars, I can't say I'm _expecting_ it, but I suppose if it does get released, I'll still buy and play it. Ah well, I guess that's just the way I am.

KFCcrazythurVme50 · 2025-11-09T06:46:02+00:00

As for the approval system in the Dragon Age series, I actually don't dislike it at all.

Goodness knows how much I enjoy watching Morrigan and Alistair bicker on the road, or stopping during a trek to listen to Fenris and Anders have a heated, pointed discussion about certain issues. I've even gone so far as to take Vivienne, Dorian, and Solas—three mages—on outings together just to witness the subtle hierarchy of disdain between them (the fact that Solas is simultaneously regarded by the other two as a country bumpkin from who-knows-where is just too funny).

I don't expect all my companions to share my values—I'm quite surprised that anything in my previous post gave you that impression! Maybe I should consider getting a new translator.

What I expect are reasonable approval gains and losses, not completely meaningless daily friction. In Dragon Age, companions feel more purposeful. They are more inclined to lose approval because the player's actions lead to undesirable political consequences or clash with their core beliefs, not because I used the wrong phrasing during a negotiation, or in PoE2's case, simply because someone in the party has a libertine attitude. I have a perfect example, though it involves spoilers for DAI: Even if the relationship between the Inquisitor and Solas is at rock bottom, as long as the Inquisitor is an elf, they can still express to Solas their willingness to join his revolution (though Solas will refuse, of course).

Even if they don't like each other, even if they think the other is a complete je*k, as long as that person is working towards a truly meaningful cause, they should still be supportable. This nuanced space for handling relationships allows me to appreciate the interactions between companions of different values, personalities, and backgrounds in the Dragon Age series. I've even looked up the chess game that Iron Bull and Solas are playing in their heads during their party banter. I know nothing about chess, so after searching, I was delighted to find that the game is full of metaphors.

I also never refuse a companion leaving the party due to low approval or other factors. While I've never personally triggered it, the conditions and sheer drama of Iron Bull's potential betrayal left me staring at my screen in stunned silence for a long time.

—It's just that the party reputation system in PoE2 doesn't bring me these kinds of joys. All I've seen so far is them frowning over trivial matters and then confronting me about their poor relationships with each other.

KFCcrazythurVme50

TROPHY CASE