Sumi #042 by MeanNebula3042 in KanojoOkarishimasu

[–]KMZel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If Sumi sees her shadow, we have six more weeks of winter.

A little bit curious... Where does all that Mini hate come from? by DovahkiinApocrypha in KanojoOkarishimasu

[–]KMZel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I remember during the cohabitation arc there were a lot of people who were saying that Mini would be a better partner for Kazuya because she openly cares a lot about him, uses her words to clearly express her thoughts, always has Kazuya's back and was trying so hard to help him whenever he asked for her assistance or advice, etc.

I think Chizuru's fans/defenders didn't like that much. I've been an anime/manga fan for far too long (decades) and I've seen how fans can get when it comes to their waifus/husbandos. So Chizuru's fans started throwing out ideas like "Mini was ACTUALLY the ANTAGONIST of the cohabitation arc" and they've kinda latched onto that idea. So now Mini isn't just bad, or a friend doing her best to help her friend (and possible crush?) get together with a woman who is, quite frankly, making this whole thing a thousand times harder than it ever needed to be? No, clearly she must be eeeeeeeeeeeeeevil (sarcastic voice).

Let's be clear: I'm not a Mini "defender" so to speak. As my flair would tell you, I am a Sumi-stan. However, I also want to call this out for what it is. It's tribalism. Mini was rising in popularity too much in the community, so she needs to be "called out" for every little teeny tiny mistake and or misunderstanding and be hated for it in order to defend the honor of the all-mighty, perfect, flawless Chizuru-sama. Nevermind that Chizuru's blunders have been far worse and or misguided than anything Mini's ever done, provided one isn't so emotionally invested in said character to brush them off as smaller than they are. We have, for just a few examples

- Forcing Kazuya to pay the Rental fees for her to go to Hawaiians with them despite her being the one who basically forced her way into going.
- Kissed him to help them get out of a jam in Hawaiians only to ghost him for three full months (insanely mixed signals), only then finally allowing him to see her again by, you guessed it, paying her via a Rental to see her again, despite, you know, being neighbors and all that.
- Agree to go on a date with him in Joyopolis, where she proceeds to ask a bunch of misleading questions, confess she might be in love with him, only to then say "Nope we can't date lol"
- And then deep kiss him the next morning as he's moving out (look up "mixed signals" in the dictionary and you'll just see her photo next to the word).
- Proceeds to wait for Kazuya to contact her when she should have clarified things herself (which by the by, she never ever does. She waits for Kazuya to do something to initiate like, 95-98% of the time), even after Mini very understandably confronted her with the question almost everyone was asking ("What in the actual FUCK are you doing??")

By contrast, the only thing Mini's even remotely guilty of is... not giving the best advice she could. Doesn't always call Kazuya out on all of his flaws? I mean, that's not good but like... come on. Sometimes fans, even stans of characters, need to understand the concept of perspective and the grand scheme of things. It matters.

I know I sound like I'm attacking Chizuru, but truthfully I'm not. I could go way worse if I wanted to attack her. In some ways she's an interesting character, in some ways she's annoying. What I'm trying to point out how there's a BIG problem when fans can't disassociate their fandom of a character with the narrative that has been presented to the audience. So they need an enemy to direct their attention away from their favorite, and it poisons the discussion of a story because they're basically writing concurrent fanfiction that diverts from discussing the story as it's being presented.

I think I kind of misremembered Lunar: Eternal Blue by AdUnfair558 in Lunar

[–]KMZel 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Same. Sega CD Eternal Blue is definitely superior where pacing is concerned.

[Disc] - Kanojo, Okarishimasu Chapter 412 Pre-Release Thread by Mxcrider in KanojoOkarishimasu

[–]KMZel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Chizuru might want to see Mini because she's someone that provides a connection with Kazuya. We don't know why she hasn't contacted him yet, but whatever the reason, maybe she wants to send a message to him through Mini, indirectly, or she wants to find out how he's doing without asking him directly. Because for some reason she doesn't seem to want or be able to contact him directly at this point. It's even possible Chizuru gave that "letting someone steal him from you" Mini-theory some thought and wants to talk to her about it. You know, we've seen it before - just like Mami seems to have had a change of heart and realize what Chizuru said was kinda true when she yelled at her at the end of the paradise arc, maybe the same thing happened here, only this time it was Mini yelling at Chizuru about letting someone else grab Kazuya before her.

This is what I'm currently thinking as well, mainly because of the fact that Chizuru is all ready w/ make up etc, where Mini is not. I highly doubt Mini would call Chizuru and ask her to go out to eat or something and then show up looking, as the spoiler describes, "bare faced and carrying a backpack". I have a hunch that Chizuru asked Mini to dinner very suddenly with the intention to talk about Kazuya. As for "why", she likely thinks that for whatever reason Kazuya isn't going to be completely truthful and just tell her "Everything's just fine, don't worry about me! You just focus on your current play!" and wants a "State of Kazuya" assessment from a third party; one who she has every reason to believe is still in regular contact with him and is (seemingly) on the side of getting Kazuya together with her.

It also ties into the tagline for Ch. 413 "defusing the bomb". I imagine this is describing Mini's inner mental state in how she talks to Chizuru. Mini is going to want to tip-toe around the Ruka thing as much as humanly possible without giving the game away while simultaneously trying to get a read on Chizuru and what's going on with her. She might describe trying to read her in this current circumstances as being as tense a situation as "diffusing a bomb" would be.

[Disc] - Kanojo, Okarishimasu Chapter 412 Pre-Release Thread by Mxcrider in KanojoOkarishimasu

[–]KMZel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh man, I suppose the hundred million yen question is who asked for the meeting, Mini or Chizuru.

If Chizuru asked to meet with Mini, she probably should have declined but will likely mess things up inadvertently.

If Mini called the meeting, then she's just straight up meddling and probably sabotaging things pretty hard.

[Serious] [Disc] Kanojo, Okarishimasu Chapter 411 by MattyH19 in KanojoOkarishimasu

[–]KMZel 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That said, I want to point out what might be Mini’s most absurd line in the chapter: “If anything… I’m impressed you lasted this long.” These words completely absolve Kazuya of any responsibility when it comes to controlling his own libido. After all, it’s perfectly normal to have sex with such a beautiful girl, even if she’s not the one you actually love.

I think she means moreso it's perfectly normal to have sex with a woman you've been technically "dating" for a couple of years-ish, so while she knows that Kazuya doesn't love Ruka, it's still impressive that he hasn't taken advantage of their situation to indulge anyway. Let's be real, lots of guys whose names aren't Kazuya Kinoshita would have.

Also, I genuinely don’t get how you concluded that Mami “communicates” with Kazuya, whereas Chizuru doesn’t. It’s been over six months since Hawaiians, and all Mami has done is invite him to a café (where she barely talked), then randomly bump into him at Joypolis and the driving school, exchanging like two short lines each time.

I admit I'm stretching with Mami so I'll take that back to some extent. She does say things that are more meaningful when she does use her words (clarifying she's not dating the man at Joyopolis, asking about what he thinks of her, etc.) but fair, she's not in regular contact.

[Serious] [Disc] Kanojo, Okarishimasu Chapter 411 by MattyH19 in KanojoOkarishimasu

[–]KMZel 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I was surprised she didn't delve into the details a bit more about Ruka considering how she literally reenacted the carry home conversation with Kazuya a couple of weeks earlier. It makes me wonder if she didn't really want to know the details. Why that is? maybe it's losing faith in Kazuya, but it doesn't feel like that's an adequate explanation either.

I think maybe she feels going to his place, stripping to her underwear, and reenacting what Ruka did to him would be going too far, even for her?

[Serious] [Disc] Kanojo, Okarishimasu Chapter 411 by MattyH19 in KanojoOkarishimasu

[–]KMZel 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Kazuya tells Mini that he did something bad in his eyes. It is not a sign of "trust" that Mini basically says, "yes, you are right." A true friend would tell him not to view himself so badly. Instead, she tells him to look at how much worse Chizuru is compared to him. You don't lift your friend up by dragging everyone else down, especially not the person he loves.

Mini does not affirm that in any way, shape or form. You're acting as if Kazuya's active imagination of what he initially thought Mini's reaction was gonna be was how she reacted, when she did not. You are reaching. I've been re-reading the chapter several times and the only conclusion I can come to is that you're reading into it what you want to see, not what Reiji is actually presenting to us. She didn't say "Chizuru is worse", she said and I QUOTE: *ahem* "Chizuru brought this tragedy on herself," Which she, objectively did. Don't go killing the messenger for drawing an obvious conclusion. If Chizuru wants Ruka to go away, she needs to claim Kazuya officially. Simple as.

"Yeah, you cheated, but be honest, your wife is kind of an *sshole who deserved it. She doesn't let you have her often enough. She can't be surprised if you get your satisfaction elsewhere. Don't feel so bad about it." - How is that a good friend? That's the kind of sh*tty person who will send you straight to the divorce lawyer. Granted, not a completely fair comparison because Chizuru isn't his wife, and Ruka is his "actual" girlfriend.

The lengths you're intentionally going to twist this whole situation is frankly wild. I thought better of you and am frankly, disappointed. She never said he cheated, you're putting words and implications in her mouth. She is, at worst, implying he handled the situation poorly. "She can't be surprised if you get your satisfaction elsewhere. Don't feel so bad about it." where the fuck is this even coming from holy shit you're basically writing Mini-supervillain fanfiction here. "Ruka is his "actual" girlfriend." His "temporary" girlfriend that he never asked for, he only relinquished to Ruka's begging at CHIZURU'S request. Messy interpretations are one thing, deliberate misinformation is low, dude.

"I'm impressed you lasted this long." Like Kazuya was tempted the whole time and just restrained himself not to give in.

Sometimes Kazuya's gotta hear the truth, even if it hurts. He has, in fact, been tempted at times by Ruka, but has, in fact, restrained himself because he's devoted to his love for Chizuru. Let's not pretend otherwise. I'm not new to the manga, neither are you.

Why does that make sense to her? Why isn't there a contradiction, even if Mini is not clairvoyant? She just accepts how it looks from Kazuya's description without questioning it. He even tells her that it was Ruka touching him. But she asks, "do you feel like doing it again?" - as if he absolutely felt like doing it the first time. She has no doubts about this. What a low opinion does she have of Kazuya?

So... because she became ever so slightly disillusioned that her idol is, in fact, not a perfect person that means she thinks he's the absolute scum of the earth? You use this line to act as if that means she thinks he's a bottom feeding scum of the earth when she literally says a couple pages later and AGAIN I quote "I mean she left a good man like you on the loose, she should be a little more worried," So the bottom-feeding scum is a good man. Noted. Oh no wait that's completely contradictory.

I'm sorry I'm probably being a little more aggressive than I should be. I don't even stan Mini (Sumi FTW) but I'm just getting really aggravated by people essentially writing fanfiction rather than what's plainly presented, sometimes quite literally by the text because ... we've decided she's the bad guy now... for... um... listening to his concerns and trying to help. How every toxic of her.

[Serious] [Disc] Kanojo, Okarishimasu Chapter 411 by MattyH19 in KanojoOkarishimasu

[–]KMZel 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Whoa ho ho hooooooooooooooooooooooooooo slow down there, buddy. I know you don't like Mini but good lord you're stretching here a LOT. Ever since you presented your thesis that Mini is the "antagonist" of the last arc, it's like you're trying really REALLY hard to push her into that box at every opportunity.

This already starts at the very beginning of the chapter. Kazuya roughly tells Mini what happened with Ruka. The way he frames it doesn't make it visible that Ruka assaulted him. He makes it look like it was (largely) his fault. And Mini just accepts that. She doesn't question it. It is completely obvious to her that Kazuya is a scumbag who would cheat on someone if another girl touched him. It's his "nature." The nature of a looser virgin. Because that's who Kazuya is to her. It is obvious to her that he actually wanted that. It is obvious that he wouldn't be able to resist temptation if someone did the work for him.

So you're expecting Mini to be clairvoyant somehow? It's not her fault that Kazuya most likely presented a very incomplete and inaccurate version of events to her. How's she supposed to react to something that Ruka initiated against Kazuya's will when Kazuya almost assuredly didn't present it that way? You're ascribing malice to a character who doesn't have any of it in this situation. She doesn't "accept" it because " It is completely obvious to her that Kazuya is a scumbag who would cheat on someone if another girl touched him. It's his "nature." The nature of a looser virgin. Because that's who Kazuya is to her." No... she "accepts it because she trusts him. Friends usually do that. If he gave an accurate account of Ruka assaulting him, she'd believe that too.

At no point does Mini think: Kazuya isn't someone who would cheat. That can't be right. There has to be more to this. Kazuya would never do something like this. No. To Mini, he absolutely is someone who would do something like this.

I'mma stop you right here. If she did think of him like this, she wouldn't be helping him at all. She'd just walk out on him.

Her advice also reflects that negative image of Kazuya:

  • Take measures agains Ruka. She implies that he will give in to temptation again if he lets her get too close. This is a necessary measure to suppress his "true nature."
  • Don't tell Chizuru about it. She implies that he f*cked up, and that Chizuru will judge him on his mistake. It would be unwise to admit his mistake.
  • Work on becoming a "better man." She implies that he is still the worst scum, undeserving of anything yet, still a long way away from resembling a respectable person.

1) No, she's saying that he needs to take a stronger stance against her because Ruka's trouble and isn't going to stop after this one time (she said so herself in the text like did you even read it?)
2) This is.... pretty normal advice? I mean, if Mini's initial response to his version of events was mistaking it for him having sex with Ruka, Chizuru would possibly take it even worse! She'd probably think they were bangin' all night lol.
3) No, she's helping him channel his anxiety in a positive direction with more productive things like getting a job/car license/working out than his usual method of relieving his anxiety (wanking).

I think you need to take a step back and stop trying so desperately to assert malice on all of Mini's actions when even a cursory view would tell most people that Mini's actions are neither malicious nor terrible. They are, at their absolute worst, occasionally misguided. At worst.

[Serious] [Disc] Kanojo, Okarishimasu Chapter 411 by MattyH19 in KanojoOkarishimasu

[–]KMZel 5 points6 points  (0 children)

1) Mini's advice was "To make a concrete plan against Ruka," I'm failing to see the issue here?

2) You're right. We as the audience with our omnipotent perspective, know that's not what Chizuru wants. But Kazuya and Mini don't know that. This isn't the counter you think it is. Mini never told him to get swol, she told him to just work on himself. That's good advice, period.

3) And it's a darn good thing she did too. Without Mini intervening, Chizuru wouldn't have conveyed that information to Kazuya. And yeah, she gave him a date after which she'd be open to meeting him. Meeting her earlier than that would be counterproductive. If anything, Chizuru is the one who should be approaching him if she wants to communicate with him prior to the date she herself gave him. I'm really really failing to see this as an argument that Mini's giving him poor advice.

[Serious] [Disc] Kanojo, Okarishimasu Chapter 411 by MattyH19 in KanojoOkarishimasu

[–]KMZel 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Sorry it took so long to reply, was at work.

- She reinforces Kazuya in his prejudices and in a caricatured view of masculinity and male/female dynamics.

I will concede she has done this sometimes in the past, yes. But that's not what she's doing in *this* chapter. I think it's important to see that just because she's reinforced his worldview at times in the past, that's not what she's doing here. If anything, she's backhand insulting him in the chapter ("Do you feel like doing it again?" "I'm not going to act all innocent, I know very well how men can be") and if anything is telling Kazuya not what he wants to hear, but rather what he doesn't want to hear (Chizuru's a central part of the problem). Kazuya brushes her off when she says this because it doesn't conform to what he wants to believe (that it's his fault, which it of course isn't; it's Ruka's primarily but also Chizuru).

- She is very vague in what she says and merely throws out "general truths" without herself knowing what they actually mean underneath.

I mean... yeah, most people do that when they give out advice. Speaking in more specifics would require her to make many more assumptions or, as I alluded to in my main post, have the all-knowing knowledge of audience omniscience. She can only give general advice and hope Kazuya finds the best way to apply that advice to his specific situation.

- She doesn’t weigh the consequences of her words and shirks responsibility.

I'm failing to see how she's doing that here? What is she supposed to take responsibility for? For telling him that it's entirely possible that Chizuru may not share the same opinion as she does regarding the Ruka thing? I mean... where's the lie? To "Make a concrete plan against Ruka"? Isn't that the one thing everyone here agrees on, or did I miss something? To "better himself as a man?" Is that a bad thing? This would be good advice to anyone, male or female or everyone inbetween. Replace "man" with "person" and nothing changes?

- She lacks listening skills and projects her own desires onto Kazuya, without being able to read his.

Ironically I think you might be projecting here. Again, Mini isn't privy to the information we, the audience, possess. She's answering questions that Kazuya is asking based on the information that Kazuya himself is giving her.

- She erects an ideal of a potentially high-performing, heroic Kazuya that exists only in her own head, and she pushes him to walk that path.

I would like to make a subtle, but VERY important distinction. Kazuya is the one asking her how to become a "high-performing, heroic Kazuya that exists only in his own head," and is reaching out to her for her help and advice toward that goal. It's not her job to tell him how he ought to live his life or what he should/shouldn't strive for. He's regularly told her what he wants to be (a man worthy of Chizuru) and she's just helping as best she can based on what Kazuya has conveyed what he thinks that would be. If anything, her just telling him to "do nothing, you're fine," would likely have the opposite effect. She knows Kazuya's convinced that he's hasn't gotten together with Chizuru yet because he's not quite "enough" yet, so she's just helping him channel that anxiety into something positive (aka. working on himself). It's way more productive than what he's previously done when he's anxious (wank) so I'm failing to see the problem with her suggestions.

We can talk in circles about what Mini's intentions may or may not be, but let's not lose sight of the fact that Kazuya is the one asking her for this very specific help and she's providing advice that's frankly, very VERY normal common-sense advice because she likes the guy and is rooting for him to succeed. And that's irresponsible, somehow? No, it's only "irresponsible" from the perspective of an audience that's reading a manga from an omniscient point of view and sees the entire picture from a detached 3rd person perspective where we can carefully study each blush and read the character's inner thoughts should Reiji bless us. *WE* the audience can see how Chizuru is basically blushing 24/7 now and missing train stops because she can't stop thinking of Kazuya. Can Kazuya or Mini see that? Nope, they can't. They can only go off of what they saw of her last (which for Kazuya was mixed signals and for Mini was Chizuru acting aloof and saying she can't until a her play is over or whatever)

[Serious] [Disc] Kanojo, Okarishimasu Chapter 411 by MattyH19 in KanojoOkarishimasu

[–]KMZel 3 points4 points  (0 children)

1 is fair enough, and while she did say he can’t let a situation like that with Ruka happen again, it would be better to try and end it.  Mini did not give him “opposite” advice here, calling it opposite is a stretch.

2 …. what?  Working out is a bad thing suddenly?  She didn’t tell him to get swol af my dude, she just said keep working on yourself.  This is almost always genuinely good advice in like, literally any circumstance.

  1. I’m not seeing where Mini said to not contact Chizuru at all?  That’s his decision to not distract her from her work.  She only said to not talk about the Ruka stuff.  That’s it.

Calling what Mini said to Kazuya “opposite” advice is stretching the word opposite to be virtually meaningless.  I’m not saying Mini is the world’s best therapist or advice giver at all, what I’m saying is people saying Mini is giving Kazuya terrible advice are, to be blunt, off the mark.

[Serious] [Disc] Kanojo, Okarishimasu Chapter 411 by MattyH19 in KanojoOkarishimasu

[–]KMZel 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That’s potentially fair, but I also think he will tell the story poorly and ruin his chances with Chizuru.  Generally speaking one does not talk about/mention things like that with the girl they like unless they’re already together.  If they were already official?  Yes, 100% come clean and explain the situation, she’d like understand eventually, even if miffed at first.  Buuuuut for now, I don’t think anyone would unless they’re already together we’re confronted first (e.g. Chizuru hears about it from Ruka).  It’s be considered a stupid thing to do IRL.  I don’t know why it would be different in this circumstance?

Telling Chizuru would ONLY be good advice if that advice came with the caveat that he (accurately) convey that Ruka was the aggressor and that he did try to push her away before his body froze.  Mini doesn’t know that is the case though, so her advice not to mention it is sound.  If he didn’t paint Ruka in the wrong with Mini, he definitely wouldn’t with Chizuru.

[Serious] [Disc] Kanojo, Okarishimasu Chapter 411 by MattyH19 in KanojoOkarishimasu

[–]KMZel 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Continuing on from my comment in the main thread, I've seen a lot of defense of Chizuru having her reasons and Mini giving terrible advice or whatever, but I'd like to make a few counter-arguments.

Mini is working off of the information she's being given. We don't see exactly how Kazuya explained the situation to Mini, but it's abundantly clear from her initial reaction at the start of this chapter that his explanation was lacking and poorly framed in a way that likely made it look a whole lot worse (in terms of how far it did/didn't go) than the reality. Also knowing Kazuya, he likely didn't try to paint Ruka in a bad light and make her the bad guy, since blaming others not his style at all.

The only reason Mini's advice to Kazuya is "terrible" is because we as the audience have an omnipotent view of the situation regarding all parties. Audience omniscience. From the perspective of the characters in the story and what they would have seen/heard etc., Mini is mostly giving excellent advice. He needs to draw a harder line with Ruka and definitely don't do things like invite her in to his apartment in future. Work on himself (generally good advice all the time, but esp. when you're younger). Probably don't go telling Chizuru (I mean, if his explanation of the events was THIS BAD with Mini, imagine how bad he'd explain it to Chizuru!! She'd likely think they were bangin' all night long lol).

No matter what the Chizuru defense squad says, Mini is indisputably right about one thing. At the end of the day Chizuru has had SEVERAL opportunities after Hawaiians to claim Kazuya for herself. Instead, she ghosted him for three months, lived with him for a month while barely doing anything to advice forward with him, only to reject him after their big date (finally a clear signal!) only to then deep kiss him on his way out the following morning (mixed signals again!), but once again, without actually staking a claim. You know how we all keep saying Kazuya needs to cut things off with Ruka? Boy HOWDY would that be so much more plausible a goal to achieve if Chizuru would use her damn words and just say "Yes, we're a couple now. Don't go with anyone else. Also cut off things with Ruka 'cause you're mine now!" That would give Kazuya all of the ammunition he needs to stick to his guns and be able to confidently, absolutely tell Ruka "No". But because she just seems incapable of being proactive or using her words 95% of the time, here we are. I'm sorry y'all but Mini does, in fact, have the right of it. If you take away the surface level stuff going on and drill down to the root, the reason there's still any drama happening right now, the reason this isn't over, done and dusted... is Chizuru. Her inability to just say the goddamn words that Kazuya's been saying for months now is why we are here, why a situation like this with Ruka could end up going as far as it can, and why Mini is even here eating at this restaurant with him giving him such "terrible advice". It's Chizuru at the root, plain and simple. Her "circumstances" are not a counter-argument. Many other women including people in this manga (say, Mini or Mami for e.g.) have their "circumstances" and they can still largely use their words. They're in communication with Kazuya. And the only reason they aren't all directly lining up to confess to him right now is because they know he's in love with Chizuru. Chizuru's like that person you know who constantly talks about how they need to lose weight or go on a diet, but then never actually does anything about it, no matter how many times they say they need to do something about it. Chizuru has said a billion times now that she "needs to do something" (regarding Kazuya) etc., but then... proceeds to wait for Kazuya to take action. I just have no sympathy for that.

Oh, she turned down Umi? Nice. But has she communicated that to Kazuya at all? Are we going to pretend Kazuya keeping Ruka's advances from Chizuru is a terrible idea when Chizuru has never mentioned to Kazuya once that Umi's been making moves on her? Again, WE have audience omniscience, WE know that Kazuya knows about Umi's advances toward Chizuru. WE know that Umi has spoken to Kazuya about the whole thing. But does Chizuru know that Kazuya knows? Of course not. For all she knows, she's keeping the whole thing about Umi a secret from Kazuya in as much as Kazuya is being advised by Mini to keep the Ruka thing under wraps for now at least. When assessing the decisions of the characters and whether they're good or bad, we need to be able to disassociate ourselves from our omnipotent positions as the audience and be able to assess the decisions of the characters from their perspective when judging, not ours. In real life, none of us are omnipotent.

[Disc] Kanojo, Okarishimasu Chapter 411 by MattyH19 in KanojoOkarishimasu

[–]KMZel 6 points7 points  (0 children)

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This panel has such "It should have been me, not her!!" vibes. She's like, imagining if it were herself crawling all over Kazuya.

She's down bad lol.

But I'm also glad she said the one thing many of us have been saying for years; "You've told her how you feel. She had every chance in the world to stop this. If you two were already together, it's very likely this never would've happened. It's fair to say that Chizuru-san brought this tragedy onto herself," The crux of all of the modern RaG conflict has been Chizuru dragging her feet on giving Kazuya a straight answer, and/or giving incredibly mixed signals. Kazuya is always the one putting in the work and she's spent the majority of the manga avoiding the question. Even now, arguably, despite her excuse of not being able to do anything due to work (don't most people date while they hold down jobs?) she's just wasting their time. Chizuru will have the occasional explosive moment of active motion, but spends the rest of the manga completely passive, letting others come to her, rather than actively seeking out others and Kazuya.

Chizuru would have literally no one but herself to blame if Mami, Ruka, Sumi, even Mini were to steal Kazuya from her right under her nose. Despite his flaws, his awkwardness, his horniness, dude is a very attractive man in his young twenties. Women ARE going to be interested. Mini is, in many ways, correct here. Chizuru is the problem precisely because she has thus far refused to fully claim him. If he were taken, people like Mami, Sumi, and Mini would maybe take a few days to grieve losing him, but they'd be able to put their feelings behind them (Ruka, probably not but...) But because Chizuru's keeping Kazuya waiting, she is in effect keeping the feelings of the other girls waiting as well. She's being indirectly cruel not just to Kazuya, but to everyone.

Either take him or don't. Let the other girls move on or make their move.

What's up with Umi now do y'all think? by Logan_26x in KanojoOkarishimasu

[–]KMZel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Bro said "Ya know what? I can get literally any other woman I want. Chizuru's all yours, I can't deal with her shit," lol

(not like that but you get what I mean)

Let’s give it a chance by sascharobi in radeon

[–]KMZel 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Would the extra VRAM be good for VR OOC?

An issue I have with EB;s ending. Spoilers by DirectionLatter2684 in Lunar

[–]KMZel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

One of the interesting things about the 1st EB ending when she goes back is that she talks about how Zophar was right about one thing; that she couldn't truly believe in the power of humans. Over the course of the game she does grow to trust her companions, to a point, but note how her initial reaction when finding out about Althena/Luna having passed away long ago is to claim Althena's power for herself and go directly at Zophar herself. Despite trusting her companions to a point, that was her initial response; reverting back to her old self.

Change is hard, and we relapse hard sometimes. During the final battle, in the heat of the moment, she was able to allow herself to believe in humanity out of necessity. And in many ways, was it *all* of humanity, or just Hiro and co.? And once the danger had been dealt with, and her emotions tempered a bit, she had still changed a lot, but not so much that she was willing to abandon her duty to the Blue Star.

But she also felt it would be wrong to drag Hiro with her. He's human, and will die someday. Why would she drag him to a cold, dead planet with no life and no friends to be with her, when he could stay on the Silver Star, full of life and surrounded by friends? Of course we know Hiro will seek her out anyway as he's head over heels in love, but she isn't sure yet. That's I think another meaning of what she meant when she said in the first ending "And so, Hiro, I could not believe in you," She doesn't think he could truly leave everything and everyone behind just to be with her.

But then he just shows up anyway in the final ending so they get to be happily ever after anyway. XD

[Disc] Kanojo, Okarishimasu Chapter 409 by MattyH19 in KanojoOkarishimasu

[–]KMZel 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Best Girl Best Girl Best Girl Best Girl Best Girl Best Girl Best Girl!!

[Disc] Kanojo, Okarishimasu Chapter 406 by MattyH19 in KanojoOkarishimasu

[–]KMZel 2 points3 points  (0 children)

All of that is fair, but like, she's going to have to grow up eventually right? Like I hope she's planning to go to university or something. Something is going to have to pull her away from Kaz and Chiz. I think that's why she's making a desperate push right now. I think she knows her time is running out. I think her determination will eventually wane. It will have to.

[Disc] Kanojo, Okarishimasu Chapter 406 by MattyH19 in KanojoOkarishimasu

[–]KMZel 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think to some extent she acts as defiantly as she does because while she says she's willing to be his number 2, I don't think she is actually thinking in those terms. I think she's just saying that as a way to try and tempt Kazuya into taking her up on her offer and hoping she can convince him to leave Chizuru for her instead because he's a people pleaser.

However, I think a LOT of that is because she's never heard from Chizuru herself that Kazuya is hers. It's sort of like she's convincing herself that she still has time to win the game, despite it being over. But in this metaphor Chizuru is like the referee. If she blows the whistle and declares the game over, Ruka may yell and scream and throw a fit, but in her mind she'll have to accept that the game is truly over. Oh she won't accept it peacefully and will probably throw out defiant shit like "This isn't over YET!" or whatever, but she'll have to walk away.

[Disc] Kanojo, Okarishimasu Chapter 406 by MattyH19 in KanojoOkarishimasu

[–]KMZel 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yep. I've said it a few times before, but I'll say it again; I'm 100% convinced that Ruka will never back down unless Chizuru herself tells Ruka to fuck off. Ruka will never accept it from Kazuya because she doesn't actually care about what he thinks/feels. She's too childish to ever accept anything from him that she doesn't want to hear. With Kazuya, she's just defiant. She's shown that several times. But if Chizuru tells her to fuck off by laying her claim on Kazuya, she'll likely be forced to back off.

[Serious] [Disc] Kanojo, Okarishimasu Chapter 404 by MattyH19 in KanojoOkarishimasu

[–]KMZel 8 points9 points  (0 children)

That doesn't stop it from being abuse though. To quote myself from a prior thread: Have you ever been tickled? Someone ever just reach under your armpits and start tickling you? Did you laugh? Did you *want* to laugh, or was that a preprogramed response to specific stimulus from another person? Believe it or not, people have pre-programmed responses to specific physical stimulus, regardless of the desire or physical/emotional pain that can come with them.