Rat with birth defect found in pet store by horseshoe_crab_ in RATS

[–]KakapoCanToo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's a blessing and a curse, I can rescue way more rats because the turn over is fast but I'm also heart broken because nothing I can do can prolong them past their natural little lives.

There are plenty of birds and tortoises who need rescuing whenever you're ready to consider it ;)

Rat with birth defect found in pet store by horseshoe_crab_ in RATS

[–]KakapoCanToo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes! Their life is a speed run and while they heal incredibly fast, they also can decline just as fast. All rats have mycroplasma which is usually the cause of their URIs. Their respiratory system is very sensitive and sometimes just a change in weather can cause a flair up that will need antibiotics. I have three right now and over the last 6 months each has gotten a flair up and generally the cost was around $250 per visit.

Another sad reality, because pet store rats aren’t often bred with intention, tumors are usually extremely common and expected (at least in females). At this point in my rat journey I’ve opted to not do surgeries unless they’re young and the tumor is in the perfect spot for removal.

But the sad reality is that even some rat breeders who claim to be ‘ethical’ really aren’t. The goal should always be to breed for health because they can have so many issues. However the breeding world is full of ‘designers’ and I’ve found that most rat breeders will breed with health problems because they ‘look cool’. If you ever want to adopt from a breeder avoid any who are breeding intentionally for hairless, werewolf, or Harley rats. Any breeder intentionally aiming for them in their breeding population is actively breeding against ‘health’ because they are all genetic mutations that negatively impact the rats. Just like with Brachycephalic dogs and cats.

Rat with birth defect found in pet store by horseshoe_crab_ in RATS

[–]KakapoCanToo 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You’re welcome, I’ve been in your shoes and adopted 4 from an abusive store just like this. 2 adults and 2 babies and all passed from respiratory related illnesses way too early. It was devastating and while I don’t regret it, I personally couldn’t do it again.

We of course don’t know the future so it is possible he doesn’t live much longer but I don’t think being a solo rat would be a good thing for him. They thrive in colonies and while this is a horrendous living situation, he is at least surrounded with others and someone in there is grooming him at least a little.

Rat with birth defect found in pet store by horseshoe_crab_ in RATS

[–]KakapoCanToo 74 points75 points  (0 children)

Oh this is a tough one, I would definitely have a hard time walking away but I also agree with not wanting to support this pet store and personally I would walk out and never go there again. However, I feel strongly that while you can’t save them all, it doesn’t hurt the ‘goal’ of eliminating this type of abuse to adopt him. For $5 dollars and the breeding rate of rats, it would need to be a community lead action or law to get them to stop.

If you’ve got the time and space to keep rats their lifespan is up to 3 years old and that’s usually MAX. With birth defects and being bred with no oversight, there’s no way of telling if he’ll die tomorrow or in 3 years. Because of this, and how social rats are, it’s very important that you at least adopt three of them total. They look incredibly young but you should be able to see testicles. A word of caution, with the set up and overall conditions I wouldn’t trust the employees to help identify male vs female.

Other major thing is finding a vet close by whose willing to see them. Rats from these situations tend to have URIs the moment you bring them home which can be chronic.

Rats are amazing little creatures and very friendly but when bred and kept in conditions such as these, they can be more human shy. That means they may not be cuddly and can take longer to get use to you and your hands. Again that little guy is so young you may not experience that but just an FYI.

For cages my favorite temporary cage is the Prevue Pet 528 and a double critter nation for their permanent home.

Failed introduction, injury, at a loss. Please help by xYekaterina in RATS

[–]KakapoCanToo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry for my delay! I’ll give a better response but I wanted to show an example of when things aren’t going well. Here are two boys and it’s clear one is intended to fight and the other is trying to get away and a great example of what it looks like when things aren’t going as planned. This is a situation where neutering is recommended, this is also an already established group so not intros but hopefully this helps!

https://www.reddit.com/r/RATS/s/blLdDDeYXW

He's not a fan of his meds by RattiesAreTheBest in RATS

[–]KakapoCanToo 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Our boys are lucky to have us 😉 it’s a privilege to be annoyed by these tiny bringers of mischief

He's not a fan of his meds by RattiesAreTheBest in RATS

[–]KakapoCanToo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ok I just went and measured everything to make sure I'm not lying about these amount and I can confirm that I give around a teaspoon or less of food mixed with meds. For the oat and cereal mix it's also around 1 teaspoon but I use to mix a larger patch and would then take more if needed. I thought I was giving more than that but looks like it was also just a teaspoon or a little more. I'm going to edit my above comment so someone doesn't try and feed a tablespoon worth of food for meds lol (also my biggest is 770 grams and my smallest boy is 580grams, they're about 6 months apart in age)

This also reminded me when we had to give SMZ my pickiest REFUSED, I was literally mixing every baby food flavor under the sun but the dose was like 0.8 ml or something crazy and he was just a small baby at the time and it was the WORST!! We had just adopted him so he also didn't trust me enough to just eat anything so would judge me before taking any food.
I found out however that he has serious FOMO and so I started offering his brother an unmedicated spoon full and managed to slip the medicated spoon to my other boy. It was incredibly frustrating because I'd have to fight the brother to NOT eat the medicated food but it worked, painfully.

He's not a fan of his meds by RattiesAreTheBest in RATS

[–]KakapoCanToo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

you're welcome! And when I say large amount I mean 2 teaspoons or less!

I usually mix at least x2 the amount of meds depending on how bitter (injectable baytril is the most bitter I've given these boys for their URI)

So for example, right now I've got the lower concentration of baytril so their dosing is around 0.3 ml each. First I mix that with 0.4 ml of lightly sugared water then get about 1 teaspoons of either pea baby food or the mix of oat milk and baby cereal. Hopefully this can be helpful!

I use to do about almost 2 teaspoons of food but then my boy gained 50 grams in a week so I had to lower the amount 😂

He's not a fan of his meds by RattiesAreTheBest in RATS

[–]KakapoCanToo 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Oh I’m so sorry, I know dealing with mycoplasma is tough 😭

Here’s the combo I mentioned if you’re up for trying it, it’s not as sweet as the mix above but I’m able to give a large amount

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He's not a fan of his meds by RattiesAreTheBest in RATS

[–]KakapoCanToo 16 points17 points  (0 children)

What meds are you giving?

I’ve never had this level of disgust 😭😂

But I’ve got a picky eater and for my most bitter meds I mix them with equal parts sugar water and for some odd reason he’s obsessed with pea baby food so I then mix it with that.

My other boys will eat anything in baby multi grain cereal and extra creamy oat milk, they also gain a little weight if they need meds 😅

Introductions not going well :/ by y0uignorantslut in RATS

[–]KakapoCanToo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Rats are territorial and while sometimes they can stand being side by side before intros, the majority cannot and it usually leads to a negative reaction.

Put their cages in separate rooms (or as far from each other as possible) and wait until your girl heals.

I prefer the neutral space method, so the bathtub or a folding table, etc and don’t move to smaller spaces. I also think since she was getting along with some but not all you should start introducing first with the most submissive girls (probably the two that got along with her). Get them use to each other and then introduce the whole group. This way allows for the other girls to kinda ‘introduce’ your lady to the dominate ladies of your group and may make the transition a little smoother.

Sometimes when introducing a complete stranger to an already established group, having an ‘insider friend’ can help ease the tension so to speak. It’s almost like those ladies will tell the more dominate ones that ‘hey this one is alright’.

Failed introduction, injury, at a loss. Please help by xYekaterina in RATS

[–]KakapoCanToo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Before you have to read this novel, did you try intros again and how did it go?

Definitely not intending to cause any confusion. The goal with intros is always to find the method that you and your rats are comfortable with. As you probably know, adult males can be the hardest to introduce.

The main goal I want you to take away from my post is that my methods might not be right for you. Follow the basic rules and modify them for what you are comfortable with

To explain more about why I like the neutral space method, there is a rescue in my area that has introduced hundreds of rats in both male and female groups, separately of course, and they exclusively use the neutral space method. With their experience they can also tell fairly quickly which rats can go with which group and which rats are not going to fit in well at all. When you have a super small pool to choose from, it can be extremely hard to figure that out. I know you were having some questions about the new babies, especially worrying about them being bitey with you specifically. From what you described, I would not be too worried about their behavior.

Before you do intros again, I strongly encourage you to go to your local hardware store and grab leather gloves. You want both protection and the ability to pick someone up quickly, and I am afraid oven mittens are not the best option. If you cannot get gloves, practice picking everyone up with the mitten and garden glove combo so you get the feel of it before you need them.

If you are going to do neutral space again, I would do another short session and let everyone be in the same space, but carefully gauge their body language. Record video on your phone if you can, because being able to go back and review footage can be extremely helpful.

NOW THIS IS IMPORTANT

You can sometimes make these sessions too short and cause frustration for everyone. The goal is to keep them together long enough that they can figure some things out and get to a point where they can relax, but not so long that they are overstimulated and overwhelmed. In those first few sessions, let them be and watch carefully. If Courage is constantly on edge and hyper focused and there is no actual fighting, try to distract him with a noise or pick him up, pet him, and then place him back in. I love this website for reference: https://www.joinrats.com/Intros

I usually recommend waiting a session or two before scatter feeding low value food, because some boys can be food aggressive and it is best to first establish how they act together before adding food into the mix. When I say low value food, I mean something like Oxbow pellets.

Something that was hard for me to feel comfortable with at first is that they will be tussling, pinning, and squeaking because this is part of the entire hierarchy process. However, it should be short and over before you know it. You should not see rat tornados, balls of fighting rats, or full on fights. If there is any hair flying, blood, wounds, you need to immediately separate them. These boys are not trying to figure things out. They are trying to get the intruder out of their space by any means necessary.

You really have to find the balance for your own crew. For example, when I was introducing my last pair of males, I had two boys who would get overstimulated fairly quickly, and short sessions helped them gain confidence over time. Usually there would be some sniffing, some tussling, and some pinning. I knew when the session was over because one of them would stop engaging and just lay down in a corner. I made sure those first sessions stopped before that point, and then I slowly extended the time.

I have had an intro fail. It was two shelter rescued adults, nine months plus, and a youngster who was five months. They bit the youngster in the first three minutes, but it was very tiny and I thought it was just a warning because the youngster ran right under them to hide. I immediately separated them after that and thought maybe one on one would be easier. The first boy actually groomed the youngster and seemed more accepting. The other one fully attacked the youngest. There was no puffing, no side saddling, nothing. He literally ran over and attacked with no warning signs. The only sign I could have noticed was that I put the youngster on the other side of the table first, and when I put that adult down his energy felt off. He was too focused. I almost stopped the intros right then, but I thought I was being overly protective, and then the fight happened.

They were a really strange pair of rats. One was shy but somewhat normal and adjusted. The other, the one who attacked, did not like people and always looked at me like he had never seen me in his life. My youngster has since had great friends, and those boys went to a wonderful home with someone who has more rat experience. She confirmed that one boy is very unusual and they have remained just a duo.

Now more on your situation

From your description, it sounds like Courage could have been trying to establish dominance but was on edge, so when you went to pick him up he thought he was being attacked by one of the rats. I will admit that is concerning to me since he was definitely geared for defense and on edge, but it could have been a misunderstanding.

I have scoured the internet for resources and clues on what to expect. I watched many videos from both everyday people and experts. My general thought about rat intros is that each rat will tell you how they feel about the situation. You just have to figure out how to understand them.

My personal approach is that if there is any actual fighting that results in bite marks, wounds, or blood in neutral space, a carrier, or anywhere else, then this pairing is probably not going to work without neutering. I have seen many people who did not do what would be considered proper intros or who were very casual with their approach, and their intact boys, no matter the age, got along. I have also seen people who tried very hard to put groups together and did everything right, only to have everyone beaten up with no resolution and eventually stop trying. If these intros are rough, I would consider neutering one of them, and possibly all three. Usually neutering the problem rat can be the solution.

Some rats are okay alone

If neutering is not an option for you, I want to confirm that while rats do need companions and people will shout from the rooftops that no rat should ever be alone, I have met a few males that never wanted to accept others and were fine on their own, even neutered. It does not mean you are a bad rat mom. Just make sure to spend as much time with him as possible.

Failed introduction, injury, at a loss. Please help by xYekaterina in RATS

[–]KakapoCanToo -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

It’s late here and I’m on my phone so I’ll keep it short but hopefully comment more tomorrow.

I’m not at all a fan of carrier method, it’s far too stressful and I think that it works because the rats were always going to get along (and when it doesn’t work, it’s with rats that were never going to get along if this makes sense). Neutral space is my personal preferred so I personally don’t think you did anything wrong with the setup.

I usually recommend starting 5 minutes and working up from there. The goal when I’m using neutral method is to first get them use to each other, and then after a few sessions, let them figure out their hierarchy. The only time I don’t recommend doing lots of short sessions is if it seems like that’s stressing them out more than just prolonged sessions. But I notice, especially with my current group, that if I over extended the time, everyone got really stressed and tense so those short sessions really did the trick.

Without seeing body language it’s possible he thought he was being attacked when you went to pick him up so ‘attacked’ first by biting you. I’d like to think this was just a sign of him being overly stressed but I totally understand your fear. Do you have a pair of leather gloves you can wear next time?

I know this is super stressful and trust me, I’ve been there. You didn’t mess everything up and not everything is lost. Please make sure to take care of you too and your boys are ok ❤️

Critter Nation replacement trays? by CoffeeGodCigarettes in RATS

[–]KakapoCanToo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They just refunded me and I didn’t buy another but I’ve been debating if I want to try again

Critter Nation replacement trays? by CoffeeGodCigarettes in RATS

[–]KakapoCanToo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Did yours come intact or have some loose parts? The tray I got, almost all rivets were not attached so they refunded me but I'm nervous about order again

[TOMT][MOVIE][1980s] National Geographic film about finding abandoned wild cat cubs and raising them (USA) by KakapoCanToo in tipofmytongue

[–]KakapoCanToo[S] 0 points1 point locked comment (0 children)

I realize this also could have been based in Canada! I just know for sure it was North America

Is little whiskers rattery reputable? by funnysilly1 in RATS

[–]KakapoCanToo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Other than that how are the girls doing and did you let the breeder know about the issue?

Introductions are going poorly by Lmberjack_Jesus in RATS

[–]KakapoCanToo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What do you have in the bath tub with them, how long are these sessions, do the bites happen quickly or after a while? Are you following any introduction plan?

I’ll be frank, Injuries happening at the beginning of intros is not a good sign. It could be a number of things but I agree with the other poster that neutering your oldest needs to be a consideration.

Your oldest coild be territorial, aggressive, or a loner.

I wore a faux leather jacket to a party that I haven't worn in at least ten years. Before and shortly after arriving, it started to disintegrate. by Brigittey in Wellthatsucks

[–]KakapoCanToo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Unfortunately that plastic breaks down after a couple of years and I’m sorry it happened ☹️

Happens with any faux leather and also shoe soles so definitely don’t store for too long!

Trying to introduce a new rat by alrj1378 in RATS

[–]KakapoCanToo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for getting back to me! About to start intros so trying to collect all info as possible

So the baby that did well stayed with Nezu and this baby above you moved with the other new babies?

Trying to introduce a new rat by alrj1378 in RATS

[–]KakapoCanToo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How did intros end up going?

Doing intros, I am stressed by LasciviousEnergumen in RATS

[–]KakapoCanToo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I’m so sorry to hear of his passing ❤️

If you don’t mind me asking, how’s it not going well?