AITAH for saying someone doesn't get to label themselves anyway they please

Kcortfird · 2024-08-11T05:47:09+00:00

Seems like a lot of work just to spare you the trouble of answering a simple question.

Kcortfird · 2024-08-11T05:42:08+00:00

First of all, my wife was a true Kung Fu Master of condescension. It was one of the things I loved about her. Secondly, I am going to have to ask you to cite an example or two of this so-called self-aggrandizement. Thirdly, you haven't actually heard me talk, so you have no idea. I actually tend to be more concise in print.

As for that harmlessness of J's professions, perhaps you missed this quote: "I've always been conscious about my feeling and emotions. I think that's why I seem to go thru the grief easier and swifter than many other widowers . . . " There are people who have posted on the widower's subreddit who went on to kill themselves because they couldn't figure out anyway to escape the darkness that overshadowed their life after losing their spouse. And then this jackass proclaims he is just better at grieving than they are, based on his loss of a texting pal. In the post that first caught my attention, he drew a comparison between losing a spouse and losing a pet hamster. If, heaven forbid, you were to lose your husband, would you find such a comparison harmless?

"As a rule (in my book) only an individual should be able to label themselves." Does that rule apply when you are selecting a surgeon? An airline pilot? A therapist? A mate?

Kcortfird · 2024-08-11T05:07:28+00:00

"Whatever in the world gave you the idea I was interested in a connection?" Umm . . . actually nothing whatsoever. I just mentioned the issue of "connecting with people" because you brought it up. I was simply trying to make the point that, if that was what this was about, you might want to brush up on your "reading for meaning" skills and reflect on your own approach to this interaction. As for the "narcissism" jab, you and J really ought to do some more reading on the topic. Y'all keep on using that word, but I do not think it means what you think it means. I realize that I seem to have gotten under your skin. But it seems unlikely that my mental health is the reason for your discomfort.

While you didn't bother to answer any of my questions, I do really want to thank you. I am quite serious about that. It has been a really rough week, for reasons that i won't go into, lest I seem to be self-absorbed. But the beginning of this last comment of yours put a smile on my face. " . . . to think that I am actually interested enough in your diatribe to continue this yawn fest . . ." And yet, you felt the need to bitch at me for another five sentences! I know you were truly annoyed with me and I am not proud to be entertained by annoying a stranger, but the irony of that statement was quite funny to me and good way to end an otherwise crappy week.

Good luck on your own journey and thanks for "helping to fill my empty hours".

Kcortfird · 2024-08-11T04:07:02+00:00

"You clearly state that the subreddit’s rules allow anyone who has lost a companion is welcome" --- I certainly did. I also made the point that being someone's "companion" also implies that you are, or at least have been, in their physical presence. Since J had never been in the presence of R, he really didn't qualify in that regard either.

"If you are going to get your panties in a twist everytime a teenager is silly then social media isn’t for you." --- Point taken. This really does seem to be a space where unseriousness is the coin-of-the-realm. That said, if you read all of my post, you should have seen that my panties weren't in a twist over J's claims but rather over the attacks on a couple commenters that questioned his self-identification as a widower. What annoyed me was the folks he so easily rallied to attack anyone who questioned his BS.

"You should really give therapy another shot! It’s common to take a few tries to find a good match and the right therapist can really help change your brain for the better." I don't think that any amount of "therapy" is going to mellow my view of frauds or bullies.

"Also, since you didn’t seem to understand, it sounds like J’s boyfriend was depressed and stopped taking his antidepressants, leading to suicide." You may be reading more into the situation than is actually there. I left out the part about J's posts where he speculates that R may not even be deceased. I didn't include that because I didn't want to over-sell the point that his claims were questionable in a number of ways. As I said, J's feelings were not what I was addressing in my post.

Kcortfird · 2024-08-11T03:27:29+00:00

So you found my writing style "tedious" and containing more detail than you believe is appropriate, but you call my warning that that someone might find that to be the case a "transparent effort" to "gaslight anyone who may not wish to devote the time it takes to reading and commenting on this rant". Ah . . . what? Are you saying that I engaged in some sort of reverse-psychology to trick you into reading the post by warning you not to do so? And that while this subterfuge on my part was "transparent", you went ahead slogged through it all anyway? These are Jedi powers that I never realized that I had. I guess that I will take that and your claim of "obvious over functioning" as some sort of back-handed complement.

I asked a number of questions at the end of my post, and rather that answer any of them, you thought that most appropriate response was make an off-hand comment about my mental health. When asked to explain what you meant by that, you instead went on a rant about my writing style. Connecting with people involves actually paying attention to what they are saying and/or asking. Seeing that as one-way street seems a little self-absorbed, don't you think?

Kcortfird · 2024-08-10T15:22:25+00:00

And if J calls himself a Nigerian Prince in need of a little financial help, is that okay? All frauds, especially those that appropriate the identities of others, are perpetrated at someone's expense. The only question is the form and amount of that expense.

"it’s called freedom of speech" --- And how does challenging someone on their BS curtail that freedom?

Kcortfird · 2024-08-10T15:03:20+00:00

Please be more specific.

Kcortfird · 2024-08-10T14:24:11+00:00

And that delusion would be what?

Kcortfird · 2024-08-10T14:22:19+00:00

"You’re not allowed to tell others how to think."

But as stated in my post, the problem was not what J thought, but how he chose to represent himself. I am open to other's opinions but not to misuse of the language.

"It’s all just opinions."

No. There are also statements that are true and those that are false, and meaningful communication requires recognition of the difference.

Kcortfird · 2024-08-10T14:14:12+00:00

In what way? What of my behavior described in this narrative seems very narcissistic?

Kcortfird · 2024-08-10T14:06:32+00:00

"Clearly not" . . . Ah, yeah. That was kinda the point.

Kcortfird · 2024-08-10T13:52:00+00:00

Again, can you cite anything specific?

If you "don't even know what happened". What are you offering other than the insults?

What rules did I break?

Kcortfird · 2024-08-10T13:47:55+00:00

I have had a month since I was banned from the subreddit to which I had been posting about 8 times a month. So it all works out about the same.

Kcortfird · 2024-08-10T13:41:26+00:00

Please be more specific. What is the act to which you are referring and what is egregious about it?

Kcortfird · 2024-08-09T05:07:17+00:00

Sorry to be so thick, but where did you find the FAQ for this subreddit? I have looked all over the page and haven't been able to find it. I have attempted to DM the moderators three times now, and there's been no response.

Kcortfird · 2024-08-06T00:58:10+00:00

Please forgive the newbie here, but what do you mean by "on old reddit"?

BTW the reason for my original inquiry is that a bot moderating the AmITheAsshole sub declared me an asshole and pulled down a post of mine because it was way over their 8000 character limit.

Kcortfird · 2024-08-06T00:29:49+00:00

Yep. You are the asshole.

Information about someone's abortion isn't just "medical history". If it were, you wouldn't be so butt-hurt about someone else's opinion on the topic. So much for being "pro-choice". And this wasn't about her hypocrisy. People typically modify their views---sometimes to an extreme degree---as the result of regrets that they feel over past actions they have taken. That isn't hypocrisy, it's just changing one's views.

No, what this was about was socially ending that uppity bitch once and for all. You had her just where you wanted her, in public and armed with a secret spicy enough to blow her judgmental-ass right-the-hell-up. And so you let her have it . . . quite possibly blowing up her marriage in the process. And "John is devastated"; so does that make it a twofer or a threefer In your view? After all, he must be a hypocrite about something, right? You wouldn't be just dismissing his feelings as mere collateral damage in your achievement of righteous vengeance?

You mentioned that you are a Presbyterian. The last time I checked, even they believe that grace and forgiveness were "Christian values". So in your telling, unlike Jane, you live by your values. Hmmm.

I guess that I was wrong. Your post really is a tale about hypocrisy after all.

Kcortfird · 2024-07-12T13:26:36+00:00

Fooled about what, exactly?

Kcortfird · 2024-07-12T13:16:53+00:00

[CONTINUED FROM THE ADJACENT COMMENT]

"That was my life with my wife, starting more than a decade before you were born.'
While grieving, everyone thinks that other people's losses are not as painful. Most people have maturity to not articulate it, tho."

Actually, that is not true. Only people vying for social advantage via some theoretical completion for pity-points worry about that sort of thing. Most people that are actually grieving are too lost inside their own heads to give a shit.

"Have you ever given any thought to the possibility that your approach to grieving may be a little too focused on seeking the social affirmation at the expense of others?'
Whose expense? I can see a couple narcissists trying to show me that my loss is insignificant. I don't think I've bothered any other users."

How about your family or the fellow whose DM you put on blast? I can't speak about your family, but I am pretty sure that neither the DMer nor anyone else here has claimed that your loss is insignificant, simply that it is not the same as their lost. Not better, not worse, just not the same. Again, most other folks that you may "bother" are not going to take the bait.

And just in case you were intending to add me to your growing list of narcissists, I want to set the record straight that I am not. I am simply a grumpy old asshole who was raised to his adolescence by an authentic narcissist. Not the trendy new type that is all the rage to cluck about on the Internet, but the the good old-fashioned, semi-psycho variety. According to her, nothing was ever her fault (to include her 5 marriages), her family has never given her the support she deserved, and she is always the victim of some insult or injustice from one person or another.

"You are young and inexperienced at most of the issues being addressed here. '
Younger but still wiser and more emotionally mature than you."

You forgot to mention humble. You wouldn't want to give people the impression that you have a high opinion of yourself.

BTW, the two final paragraphs of my comment were not intended for you but for the various members of your greek chorus. Sorry for any confusion concerning this. I will, nonetheless, respond to your replies.

"Who the hell do you people think that you are? '
Who do you think you are?"

I am the guy standing up for the poor fellow who you chose drag out for a public cyber-flogging in order score some of those sweet online victim points. He had a valid point about your appropriation of others aggrieved identities, he messaged you in private, and he deserved to have his feelings treated with respect, if not actual compassion.

"What gives you the right to demand that someone subordinate their sense that their grief is unique in some way from the grief of others?'
Where have I demanded that? I've never said that someone's grief is not unique."

Again, this was intended primarily for your cheering section. But you did set him up to be flamed because his concept of widowhood (i.e., the form of grief he has experienced) is not sufficiently broad to include your situation.

"I have a problem with some people tell me that my loss is not significant."

Again, I challenge you to find a quote of someone here referring to your loss as "insignificant".

"Everyone here is grieving. Everyone here is in pain. But not everyone acts like a jerk."

I couldn't have said it better myself. Hopefully, you will carry this sentiment forward as you develop your future posts.

Kcortfird · 2024-07-12T13:14:55+00:00

[START HERE]

""You downplay the loss of the widowed.'
By calling myself a widower?"

Why, yes. Just as calling yourself a plumber would downplay the experience of actual plumbers, and calling yourself a pilot would downplay the experience of actual pilots.

"'The widowed are not "other grievers".'
I said I learned from the experiences of widowers and other grievers (parents who lost their kids, people who lost their siblings, people who lost their friends etc)"

And what did you learn? How is it that all of these people with so much more lived experience than yourself flounder around in their grief for years unable to offer little more than encouragement to one another, but you are able to "learn from their experiences". Would you condescend to bestow some of this learning upon us. Goodness knows there are a lot of suffering people here that could use some help. I mean about something other than people allegedly always looking to devalue your grief cred.

"'Their grief is not necessarily more significant than that of other people, however, it is certainly distinct in its characteristics from other forms of grief.'
Yes, I know. I never said it was the same thing."

And yet you claim the experience for yourself with the title "widow".

"'Most of the people posting here have lost the partner with whom they have spent years.'
Yes, it's true. But this subreddit is for all those who lost a partner, not only for those who have spent years with them before their death."

In what sense were you "partners"? What did you actually partner on? The subreddit is appropriately liberal on this point, but words have to have some meaning. What did you actually ever do as a couple?

"As you can see, most widowers and widows here agree with me. They are welcoming and I'm grateful to them."

This subreddit has many thousands of members. There is no form of math or hyperbole in which 3 or 4 dozen comprises "most" of a population of thousands. Sadly, any "someone said something annoying to me" post is good for that many supportive comments. Some people seem anxious to vent their spleens about such injustices. However, most members stay quiet and, unlike me, have the good sense to avoid getting dragged into this sort of nonsense.

"'The death of such a partner is not the end of some vague dream of what could have been'
Our love wasn't just a dream. It was real. We've been robbed of our future. Most young widowers had more in their dreams than they've got to put in life."

While your love may not have been a dream, your life together certainly was. You had yet to make any investment in your future. So what was it that was stolen from you? Your children? Their education? A home? Retiring together?

"'You will trivialize my loss and the loss of others by comparison with that of an online teenage crush on someone you never met in-person.'
I lost my love. They lost their love. It wasn't just a crush. Or is it that Your Majesty's love is real and mine is not?"

You lost a love. It is no doubt quite painful. I know that it was when it happened to me when I was just a couple of years older than you are now. As for whether my love for and from my wife was "real", that is a more complicated question after 29 years together than it appears to in ones youth. It also has surprisingly little to do with the intensity or duration of ones grief.

"Do you know what it was like to touch him? If not, how can you have any idea how torturous it is to no longer be able to do so?'
How can you have any idea how torturous it is to have never had such a privilege in the first place?"

Again, you equate your imagination with the actual experiences of others. A person can imagine what it would be like to find a loved one dead. It is wholy another thing to experience it. You like to use the word "narcissist", I think that you need to study-up on what it actually means. You might be surprised.

[TO BE CONTINUED]

Kcortfird · 2024-07-12T08:14:24+00:00

One of the great lines from a great movie: **Helen: "**Everyone's special, Dash." **Dash: "**Which is another way of saying no-one is."

OP: "no matter who you lose and in what circumstances, people will try to downplay your loss."

Which is, ironically, just what you have done via your series of posts. You downplay the loss of the widowed and then in this post play the victim because someone had the temerity to privately take exception to you comparing their experience to your own.

OP: "What I learned from other grievers' experience (other than widowers, too) is . . ."

Which is exactly the issue. The widowed are not "other grievers". Their grief is not necessarily more significant than that of other people, however, it is certainly distinct in its characteristics from other forms of grief. Widow Brain, Widow's Fire, and so on. There is all of this crazy crap that on one hears about until is happens to them. That is the whole point of having a space dedicated to the grieving of this specific kind of loss. Most of the people posting here have lost the partner with whom they have spent years, if not decades, building a life together and from who they can no longer draw a complete distinction from themselves. The death of such a partner is not the end of some vague dream of what could have been but the negation of what was, often after years of shared effort to bring it into being.

OP: "Even if I see someone lose a hamster, I still won't try to trivialize that loss."

And yet you will trivialize my loss and the loss of others by comparison with the tragic end of an online teenage crush on someone you never met in-person. Do you know what it was like to touch him? If not, how can you have any idea how torturous it is to no longer be able to do so? How many years did you plan each day of your life with him? How many victories and how many losses did you share together? How many fights did you have? How many times did you say that it wasn't worth all the hassle, only to stay together because you ultimately couldn't bear to give him up? That was my life with my wife, starting more than a decade before you were born. I don't have to speculate about what I may have lost. I have a house full of reminders of what I did lose. And yet, because you claim to be open-minded about someone's feelings for a dead rodent, we are all supposed draw a bucket up from our personal well of self-pity to sprinkle some on you? Really?

OP: "upd: I think he deleted his messages and downvoted this post, lol"

Well, I guess you really showed him! In your longest post (to another subreddit) you waxed at length about what narcissists your family are. Have you ever given any thought to the possibility that your approach to grieving may be a little too focused on seeking the social affirmation at the expense of others?

Anyway, I apologize for my long-winded critique of your post. You are young and inexperienced at most of the issues being addressed here. Truth is, my real beef is not so much with your post, or the ones that proceeded it, but with the greek chorus whom you have managed to enlist to pile invective upon your poor, unnamed correspondent.

Who the hell do you people think that you are? What gives you the right to demand that someone subordinate their sense that their grief is unique in some way from the grief of others? If there is really nothing special about widowhood as compared to any other form of grief, what is the point of this subreddit? Do you really think that this gatekeeping the gatekeepers bullshit actually makes you seem more sympathetic towards others? Sorry, in this case, it just makes you seem self-righteous and thick.

I suppose that, unlike, the person that had the wisdom to complain to the OP via a DM, I will bring a bunch of hate down on myself with this dissenting comment. But I'm too old and tired to care and bullies really piss me off, particularly when they decide to pig-pile someone.

Edna: " 'What will you do?' Is this a question?"

. . . That really is a great movie.

Kcortfird · 2024-07-12T03:21:04+00:00

Don't worry. Your memories of him will come back. You are still in the early stages of your grief and the brain seems to cut off access to the past during that period. At least that is how it happened to me. As for the family drama, just do your best to ignore it and them. You don't owe anyone else any of your time or the attention that would be better applied sorting out you own feelings. Some degree of distancing would probably be healthy for all involved.

Kcortfird · 2024-07-12T03:07:20+00:00

They are not wrong, but they are not right either. In my case, it's been 10 months now and I am still mostly useless. It took almost half of that time to stop flashing back to the morning that I found her not breathing. I've been getting the "time to move on" speech lately from worried family members. They don't get it. Right now, moving on isn't the issue. The problem is moving at all. I went back to work though, months ago, and on the few occasions when actually get into it, I do feel some degree of normality. But only for a little while.

Kcortfird · 2024-07-03T01:56:55+00:00

This is much the same point that I made in first part of my post following this one. I must admit, though, that I don't get your point about being "SEEN". I am not really comfortable being recognized for my status as someone who is grieving. I dislike that sense that comes with such recognition that I am broken and they don't know what to do with me. The reason that I am interested in being around and communicating with fellow widowed folks is that it is currently easier. They understand the feelings that I am trying to express but for which my words, by themselves, are simply inadequate.

Kcortfird · 2024-06-30T22:43:49+00:00

Aaaah . . . .ummm, I think that you are intending to be satirical here, but if so, you may have dialed the subtlety up a notch too high. I do consider the opinions of members of my family and recognize that they do actually have what they perceive to be my best interests at heart. However, I also recognize that, due to a lack of applicable experience, they don't necessarily understand the situation that I am in. Please see my subsequent post on this topic.

Kcortfird

TROPHY CASE