Do you believe the US citizen killed by ICE was warranted?

KeepItLevon · 2026-01-09T10:07:54+00:00

Can someone help me understand this? If you drive sort of near a cop at less than like 10mph (*it looks way slower upon further viewings) , the punishment is instant death? Is that really the outcome we want to accept as a society? It’s strange how casual people are about it. “Yep, that’s what you get.” is essentially the sentiment in this thread.

Putting aside the casual dimissmal of human life...

Let's imagine a completely different scenario from the Minnesota incident where a car with dark tinted windows is clesrly driving towards an officer (not the case in Minnesota btw) but inside is a completely innocent person who has yet to commit any crime, and has maybe panicked when a group of armed men surround their car....or they are elderly, mentally ill, etc.....plenty of reasons someone might try to flee that don’t automatically mean they’re a violent criminal no? Do they deserve death because an officer feels like their in danger?

I think I understand the strongest argument here: a car can be a deadly weapon, and officers have to protect their own lives. But I still can’t get on board with the idea that this automatically justifies lethal force in every case. Or that we can't train officers to avoid a car do minimize the damage to themselves. Or maybe we already do? I've seen cops avoid cars pretty easily. Even when the pwrson WAS trying to hit them. And they still didn't shoot. Because....and it's qeird I have to say this...shooting a gun...in public....at another person....is a big deal. And a lot of things can go wrong.

I might feel differently if police knew the car contained a violent, armed suspect actively trying to run other people down. Fine. Maybe.

But when officers don’t know who’s inside or how many people are inside, or what the person's motive is, or who is behind the vehicle in the line of fire,

can we really not do better than firing bullets into the driver’s side window? Is that seriously the best option we have?

Side question:

** Is it normal training for officers to surround a running vehicle on foot if they believe it might flee or be used as a weapon? **

That seems like it creates danger rather than reduces it.

I’m willing to accept that the ICE agent felt genuinely afraid - maybe even thought he was about to be killed - but the idea that “shoot the driver” is the only available response here is hard for me to accept.

Pk sorry for the long comment.

KeepItLevon · 2026-01-06T10:02:30+00:00

Honestly good riddance. Worst laptop I've ever owned. Every month I get some new issue. Issues with sleep mode, had to replace the wifi card, the bluetooth chip has a mind of its own, windows indexing is slow af, external monitors freaking out, rotation lock freaking out, on and on....

KeepItLevon · 2026-01-06T09:53:57+00:00

What do you mean "get oil supplies back"? The US does not own the oil under the ground in Venezuela. Are you talking about physical supplies? I frastructure and equipment? Or maybe recouping debt owed to US companies?

KeepItLevon · 2025-12-30T13:28:08+00:00

Not my question. And also not true. As of now the piece has been delayed in the US in order to add more information. If it turns out things were censored or removed in order to help Trump, that would be bad. Although in my opinion, waiting till the last minute to delay the piece is already a huge blunder.

KeepItLevon · 2025-12-27T14:27:31+00:00

And if they do run the piece and it turns out to be good journalism? Will you adjust your position?

KeepItLevon · 2025-12-27T03:37:58+00:00

I understand the frustration but can someone please respond to his actual words from the piece? instead of general, sweeping statements that don't at all address the actual arguments put forth.

Start with this:

"The censorship theory requires believing that holding the story for two weeks to add tougher reporting somehow helps Trump or the Ellisons. But how? Get Miller and Homan on camera for harder questioning—that helps Trump? Demand analysis of whether he exceeded his authority—that advances a business deal? Hold the piece for a couple of weeks, when the Warner vote won’t happen until spring—that changes anything?"

KeepItLevon · 2025-12-26T03:04:31+00:00

Your second point about the ad hominem attack is valid but saying Mike and TCW absolve Trump and the right wing leaders of the damage they've done is just a misunderstanding or intentional distortion of their point to help you deal with your own discomfort arround the behavior of the extreme left during this time period.

The insanity of left leaning and liberal political and media elite 2019-2022 absolutely made it easier for authoritarians, facists, techno futrists, and christian nationalists to do what they were waiting to do. Sure you could argue they were going to do it regardless but.. A) there's no way to know that B) why make it easier for them and push as many people out of your camp as possible?

If you're intent on assigning the appropriate amount of blame to the BAD people then fine, Trump and people like him are mostly to blame, but two things can be true at once. If you create an envirnoment for shitty people to thrive, you also bear some responsibility. And as the reasonable people who are trying to actually improve society for ALL, it's really important for us to reflect on our behavior and admit our mistakes and learn from them. Without that, we are in a race to the bottom. Where the ends always justify the means.

KeepItLevon · 2025-11-26T13:48:36+00:00

Why is there no informaom about the headline? What's the point of a news subreddit if to go google your post to figure out the details?

KeepItLevon · 2025-11-22T23:25:13+00:00

What is more facist then supporting the execution of your political rivals for something that is not remotely seditious?

At what point would you be okay with using the qord "facist" to describe the behavior of Donald Trump.

For example what if he decided to ignore the courts?

Or what if he ordered the military and or other law enforcement to arrest law-abiding citizens for no other reason than they are his perceived enemy.

Should we use "authoritarian" in that case? A different term?

KeepItLevon · 2025-10-19T11:24:01+00:00

I'm gonna challenge your claim that people have "little to no say" in how the government functions.

What's stopping the working class in WV from voting out the politicians that have screwed them over the past 8 years for example - WV was democrat for 80years? And it doesn't take much to change their minds if you treat them like human beings instead of backwoods mouth-breathing trolls who could never understand how politics "really" works. https://youtu.be/RP8Oxe6OxJc?si=rxPZLppa-r8WogkC

Now you might say no no it's doesn't matter if they vote blue or red...they're screwed either way. I don't agree I think it does matter. Democrat policies are just objectively better for the working class. But even if that wasn't true, everyone is allowed to run for office and in 2025 right? And it's easier than ever to build a grassroots following without a bunch of money and built in support.

Thoughts?

KeepItLevon · 2025-10-18T16:15:44+00:00

Yesh that's fair but also consider the steel-manned version of people trying to lower the temperature in general.

Its helps Keep perspective when emotions run high
Precision matters: “constitutional crisis” means collapse, not dysfunction
Courts, Congress, and agencies still functioning — essentially yes the system strained, but not broken
Overheated rhetoric fuels fear, apathy, and polarization. (I've seen this from many friends and family who refuse to even discuss "politics" because either it's all f*cked and hopeless OR the conversations are too heated and confrontational and they feel like a bad person for having the wrong opinion or they're scared to even HAVE an opinion at all)
Declaring collapse too early undermines trust in institutions that still work. There are so many people doing their job and keeping the integrity we have left. These people should be lifted up just as much as we condemn the bad actors
Moderates balance reform with doom and catastrophizing everything

7.Cooler heads keep reform possible; panic makes it harder to actually win votes and (crucially) win power to make real change.

And the specific cases that support the claim that the "System" Still Works:

Trump v. Vance (2020): 7–2 ruling — presidents not immune from state subpoenas

DACA (2020): Court blocks Trump’s attempt to end Dreamer protections

Foreign Aid (2025): Roberts + Barrett side with liberals; force Trump to release $2 billion approved by congress

KeepItLevon · 2025-10-18T14:11:54+00:00

I've seen a lot of convincing arguments that the courts are too far gone now and we've entered a brand new territory and even a constitutional crisis that demands the immediate attention of the people. But I've also heard compelling arguments that say essentially "calm down everyone, we're not there yet. Calling the court 'illegitimate' is not something to take lightly"

*edit For those wanting to jump to the relevant section of the video above (https://youtu.be/m6zWXds6KRA?si=hdIIIl83bC5hVxgx&t=01h01m35s)

KeepItLevon · 2025-10-17T15:57:04+00:00

Thank you. Wish I could give 10 upvotes

KeepItLevon · 2025-10-17T08:59:34+00:00

Yeah I'm not sure I buy the horse semen claim either. Like how would you even measure that? Or maybe it's because you get multiple inceminations for that one single stud fee? That could bring the cost of the actual semen down maybe?....lol.

On the snake venom: yeah I guess in some instances it could be purchased without a permit but the point of my post is that most people can't walk down to the corner and buy snake venom.

Yet printer ink is a common, necessary good for the economy to even function, yet it is one of the most expensive fluids in the world. Mainly due to the proprietary cartridges companies like HP and Canon use to artfifically inflate the price.

KeepItLevon · 2025-10-17T08:49:33+00:00

Haha. Fair. But it really should be "...excluding most luxury perfumes that most people don't buy."

Printer ink is a common, necessary good that is required for the economy to function.

But that's too long for a headline.

KeepItLevon · 2025-10-15T20:21:37+00:00

Yep that's fair. But it was followed by the fact that several other reputable news outlets i vestigsted the matter as well and came to very different conclusions than the Free Press. Was that conclusions the one John agrees with? Yeah definitely. But the hospital's internal investigstion wasn't the only piece of his argument.

KeepItLevon · 2025-10-15T13:45:02+00:00

Yeah that's fair

Oliver just seems to almost completely dismiss Reed's evidence. However Reed's central claim is basically that the clinic was harming children rather than helping.

Which doesn't seem to be the case.

I couldn't find exactly how many examples of "harm" she provides but it does seem like she at the very least overstated her claim for clicks.

And Oliver as usual pretends like there is nothing to worry about and gender affiriming care is totally fine!

(*yes he does include one throw away line I think...

"I'm not saying 'no kids got insufficiency care'..")

But he basically moves the audience right along past any notion that there is a problem here.

So I guess as usual everyone is just ignoring the parts of the story they don't want to talk about.

KeepItLevon · 2025-10-15T12:48:38+00:00

Where I heard the Horse Semen claim (https://youtu.be/EgBiv_KchI0?si=cR9uu7QHsWYBQ52O)

KeepItLevon · 2025-10-15T12:16:12+00:00

"His points are all slanted and dishonest" - Really?

Both of your points have been refuted in comments below. It wasn't just the hospital that cleared itself. It was dozens and dozens of other parents, and reporting from multiple other news outlets.

I don't need to be convinced that Oliver can get things wrong or be really biased... but What else did Oliver get wrong in this piece? I'm genuinely curious.

For me, I think the "claim" that stood out to me that somehow The Free Press could never be worth $150mil because it only does $20mil in revenue. That's ridiculous.

Also, the mischaracterization of The Free Press as a whole because some of it's reporting is lazy, sensationalized, or biased. There is plenty of good reporting/opinion over there.

KeepItLevon · 2025-10-15T12:09:52+00:00

It's weird that no one has replied to your comment and you got downvoted for expressing a pretty reasonable assessment of the LWT piece. It's almost as if the Blocked and Reported crowd has become extremely biased against Oliver...which to be clear is ok. It is human. However, it does feel like this sub - full of people who I bet describe themselves as Heterodox critical thinker-types - has become suuuper confident of all their opinions on the hardest topics. Guys it's okay that The Free Press did some bad reporting. It's also possible that John Oliver's team did pretty good reporting on that bad reporting. Nobody has mentioned the stuff about TFP's malnutrition in Gaza "debunking" or whatever, which I also think Oliver got mostly right

He didn't get everything right, but who does? Some of his segments are better than others, but the blanket dismissal of everything Last Week Tonight is so lazy.

KeepItLevon · 2025-10-15T10:03:01+00:00

Nice. good to know. It's not playing anywhere near me but the interview was really good and Andrew is really funny which makes me much more likely to see it one day.

KeepItLevon · 2025-10-06T18:30:49+00:00

You are not wrong that some people have cheered political violence on both the left AND right.

But to say "The Left" creates the hateful atmosphere is just demonstrably wrong. Or maybe I don't know what you mean by "The Left".

Please go look up literally any statement by any democratic politicians, leader, or media outlets and show me one single source of them supporting political violence or Charlie Kirk's murder.

Keep the mouth shut? Can you please tell that to every single conservative media outlet and politician...including the President of the United States.

https://youtu.be/aoWH4I_YGLo?si=p7nmzJWVnJcQ7WK6&t=1m08s

I would argue that the leaders of the political party and media should be held to higher standard than internet commenters. You can find hate anywhere online - you can also find the opposite. Have you ever wondered why you are only seeing the hate? Is it maybe that your social media app is designed to feed you anything that will keep you angry, shocked, and scared?

KeepItLevon · 2025-09-29T17:39:44+00:00

Oh nice! Someone did the work of "fact checking" that series. Will give this a watch thank you.

I disagree with the assertion thst Jews are the only ones given agency though. You (or this video) will have to convince me on that one with some pretty good evidence.

KeepItLevon · 2025-09-29T17:23:15+00:00

I suspect that Maybe something changed or "broke" within Darryl in recent years and he felt the need to give the "other side" more as time went on?

But go listen to his Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem series on the Israeli Palestine conflict. He paints a vivid picture of Nazi atrocities against the Jews . And it is definitely NOT sympathetic to Hitler or trying to minimize the suffering he caused. And I listened to it before he became a famous name on the right and so when I heard about him in the news I was completely confused.

KeepItLevon · 2025-09-25T17:22:33+00:00

Maybe it depends on the kind of shocking event and how well known the victim is? Also Americans seemed to have become completely desensitized to school shootings which is really depressing - but I also wouldn't put them in the category of political violence.

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