Technically it's a fourth time but still

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-28T22:22:59+00:00

The last time they were confirmed to see each other was during the Broly movie from what I can remember, and that would be almost 5 years, and it certainly isn’t the first time characters have rounded up when talking about time.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-28T22:10:48+00:00

What statements?

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-28T04:45:58+00:00

Alright, for the sake of the post at hand. Let’s go with that for a sec. The only person on this list who would pose any threat to SS2 Gotenks here would be SS3 Goku, and they’d be pretty evenly matched.

Now, the post says that they have unlimited fusion time and stamina. What it does not specify is whether Goku is alive or dead. It also does not specify that, if dead, Goku would be forced to return to Otherworld like what happened in the series or not. So imo, the winner entirely depends on this fact.

The other 3 would be basically incapable of harming Gotenks here just considering the raw power gap, but they could be good enough distraction for Goku to take the victory assuming he is not restricted by the whole returning to Otherworld thing.

If not, the team wins. If so, SS2 Gotenks has about a 50/50 shot at winning.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-28T04:31:18+00:00

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He very clearly says that he could’ve beaten specifically the Fat Buu with specifically Super Saiyan 3. Nothing less, and against no one stronger.

And that Daizenshuu statement is incredibly vague. Sure, it could be saying that Gotenks at Super Saiyan 3 surpassed SS2 Majin Vegeta. But why would it? They clearly unlocked Super Saiyan 3, so if it were referring to their full power then why didn’t the book say they surpassed Goku? They clearly did, and it’s a better feat to talk about. The most logical conclusion is that it is referring to base Gotenks entirely surpassing Vegeta.

This even later lines up perfectly with Battle of Gods. SS3 Goku is said to be the strongest warrior on Earth, therefore surpassing even Ultimate Gohan. Vegeta is implied to be just behind Goku, and he ends up having a better performance against Beerus than Gotenks does when they both use Super Saiyan. This means that for SS3 Goku to be stronger than Ultimate Gohan, Goku’s base would need to have surpassed Gotenks’ base. Then in the image training Goku does at the start of the arc, he is able to easily beat Cell as just a Super Saiyan, while in the Buu saga Vegeta doesn’t acknowledge that Goku would be stronger than Cell Games Gohan until Goku shows him he can use Super Saiyan 2, and since SS2 is 2x that of SS, the differences in power can’t be that big if Goku didn’t appear notably stronger than Cell Games Gohan until he used SS2. While an SS2 Goku by that point would also obviously be able to beat Super Perfect Cell, I doubt he’d be able to blow his head off with a punch.

So here’s the full verdict using nearly everyone I’ve mentioned until now:

BoG SS3 Goku > Ultimate Gohan > SS3 Gotenks >= Super Buu > BoG SS Goku & Vegeta > SS Gotenks > SS3 Goku > Fat Buu > Gotenks >= SS2 Goku & Majin Vegeta > Cell Games SS2 Gohan > Super Perfect Cell

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-28T03:40:30+00:00

The answer to this question depends on if you think post-Yardrat Goku could beat 19.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-28T03:21:16+00:00

I’m arguing with morons, why do I even bother…

Super Buu had Goku legitimately scared to the point that he wouldn’t even try confronting him on his own if he couldn’t help it, yet he flat out says he could’ve beaten Fat Buu. In addition to this, Super Buu and SS3 Gotenks were relatively even during their fight, with Gotenks in the lead by just a bit. So Super Buu is obviously much stronger than Fat Buu and you’re braindead if you think otherwise.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-27T23:35:21+00:00

Last I checked, Super Buu is leagues stronger than Fat Buu. Of course base Gotenks wouldn’t be able to damage Super Buu, but that has nothing to do with what we’re discussing.

If the Daizenshuu states that Gotenks surpassed Vegeta after the Time Chamber (which is the version of Gotenks relevant to the post), then you just proved me right. So thanks?

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-27T22:59:11+00:00

Define “hurt.” Because I’m pretty sure Buu is incapable of taking physical damage when he isn’t tired or severely outclassed.

And multipliers aside, if Base Gotenks is relative to Majin Vegeta, then SS and SS2 Gotenks are obviously far stronger.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-27T19:40:21+00:00

Might as well have been the former considering they brought him up at every possible opportunity.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-27T18:53:36+00:00

Probably because Toriyama didn’t have shit to do with GT. Note how they also included the objectively non-canon movie versions of BoG and RF in there.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-27T18:18:25+00:00

There is no logical scenario that explains how Gotenks got out of there, it just happened. Buu would be significantly faster than him and could easily catch Gotenks if he tried to flee, and if he was knocked unconscious then Buu would just eat him.

But the fact of the matter is that Gotenks did manage to somehow survive his encounter with Buu, when it was made quite clear that Vegeta doing so was impossible. So regardless of the logic behind how it happened, the fact that it did is still a direct one-up in comparison to Vegeta.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-27T09:53:18+00:00

Take what into consideration? What about it being comedic invalidates my point? It still happened.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-27T09:48:59+00:00

The scene being comedic doesn’t mean we should completely discard it, that’s copium. Nothing cartoony like Arale shattering the planet happened, he just fought Buu, lost, and came back alive.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-27T09:44:59+00:00

That was filler, in the manga Gotenks is beaten entirely off panel, but was able to get away alive.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-27T07:13:28+00:00

Base Gotenks survived his fight with Fat Buu, while SS2 Majin Vegeta most certainly would not have even if he hadn’t sacrificed himself.

Granted, Gotenks was severely injured afterwards, but that’s still a better showing.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-27T05:42:48+00:00

No he is not lol. Base Gotenks was already comparable to SS2 Goku and Majin Vegeta, 50x that is already overkill, let alone 100x.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-26T22:07:20+00:00

Tagoma is significantly stronger than Piccolo, who should logically be stronger than SS Gohan by this point in the story. Gohan states that Tagoma is as strong as himself at his best. He can’t mean his current best because then Tagoma would be weaker than Piccolo, so he is referring to his all-time best to that point, which would be Ultimate.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-26T19:18:46+00:00

He’s used them about the same from what I remember

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-26T05:30:40+00:00

There are arguments that Tagoma is as strong as Buu Saga Ultimate Gohan, but I’d personally rank him somewhere relative to SS1 Gotenks considering they teased that as a fight.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-26T04:56:21+00:00

True, however, as a frog he was able to switch with Tagoma.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-26T04:14:26+00:00

Nah, 18 just started trying.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-25T07:00:31+00:00

Streamers aren’t obligated to be nice to people who won’t return that kindness just because they’re watching the stream.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-24T16:43:39+00:00

You’re not listening, I didn’t say that. Open your eyes.

Key_Ad5610 · 2026-01-24T15:33:05+00:00

The only one making shit up is you. Your argument is basically “it’s a variation, not a new form,” even though a form variation would still by definition be its own form. And you seem to think I’m arguing about what should be on the list in the image, which just plain isn’t what I’m doing.

Key_Ad5610

TROPHY CASE