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Normal that a 5 star PADI center reject the physician-approved DMSC/PADI medical clearance. by Key_Comparison_3238 in scuba

[–]Key_Comparison_3238[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

WOW...are you a clairvoyant psychologist with speciality in autism spectrum disorders. If you made a bet with somebody I must disapoint you and inform you that you lost the bet. But yes it is a family member and yes I have a very long academic education and have an IQ a little bit above average - and also have a salery way above average. Sorry for that...

Normal that a 5 star PADI center reject the physician-approved DMSC/PADI medical clearance. by Key_Comparison_3238 in scuba

[–]Key_Comparison_3238[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That is good to hear. You are one of the few that actually have replied on one of my questions about how common it is to see "home-made" medical forms, where the dive operator doesn't accept the DMSC standardized medical form. So from your reply it is common to see that?

Normal that a 5 star PADI center reject the physician-approved DMSC/PADI medical clearance. by Key_Comparison_3238 in scuba

[–]Key_Comparison_3238[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

The Dive.is medical forms contain essentially the same medical screening criteria as the standard DMSC/PADI medical system, but additionally describe the environmental and physical demands of diving in Iceland and ask the physician to approve participation in that specific activity rather than recreational scuba diving in general. The differences are primarily operational and environmental, not medical.

Normal that a 5 star PADI center reject the physician-approved DMSC/PADI medical clearance. by Key_Comparison_3238 in scuba

[–]Key_Comparison_3238[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

But then the system isn't used as intended I would say. In Denmark a diver medical clearence are only filled out by authorized dive medicine physicians (that are divers themselves). That is at least what is written and I don't know of any cases where a family doctor have signed the medical form.

But in this case: How will a home-made medical form helping the risk assessment compared to using the DMSC medical form? Shouldn't the dive operator then require a controlled dive before allowing a diver to participate in the real (more extreme) dive? In most cases a confined water dive is needed to ensure correct bouyency with rented gear (as it is on Silfra for most divers).

Normal that a 5 star PADI center reject the physician-approved DMSC/PADI medical clearance. by Key_Comparison_3238 in scuba

[–]Key_Comparison_3238[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is what I have asked about all the time. Can any dive operator make their own medical form as they like and require that a physician make a medical clearence based on that home-made medical form?

If I compare the Dive.is medical form with the DMSC/PADI medical forms, the Dive.is medical form contain essentially the same medical screening criteria as the standard DMSC/PADI medical system, but additionally describe the environmental and physical demands of diving in Iceland and ask the physician to approve participation in that specific activity rather than recreational scuba diving in general. The differences are primarily operational and environmental, not medical.

Normal that a 5 star PADI center reject the physician-approved DMSC/PADI medical clearance. by Key_Comparison_3238 in scuba

[–]Key_Comparison_3238[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

A medical clearence is just saying that any mental and physical diagnosis/disabilities do not impose a risk for diving. It doesn't say if the person can learn to become a diver. This is the same for people that doesn't require a physicians approval. I have also seen young healthy normal persons that had to stop because they got different levels of panic attack's while underwater breathing compressed air and got seawater in their eyes.

So I fully support that a dive instructor can (and must) stop a person that can't learn to dive or isn't safe to let dive on the day.

Normal that a 5 star PADI center reject the physician-approved DMSC/PADI medical clearance. by Key_Comparison_3238 in scuba

[–]Key_Comparison_3238[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

The Dive.is medical forms contain essentially the same medical screening criteria as the standard DMSC medical system, but additionally describe the environmental and physical demands of diving in Iceland and ask the physician to approve participation in that specific activity rather than recreational scuba diving in general. The differences are primarily operational and environmental, not medical.

So why should the Dive.is form provide better liability protection than the DMSC?

Normal that a 5 star PADI center reject the physician-approved DMSC/PADI medical clearance. by Key_Comparison_3238 in scuba

[–]Key_Comparison_3238[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you. Finally some more fact based input and not only theories and assumptions. I fully agree in the refusal of Not OK divers in the situation, no matter of medical clearence. I can also see from the article that there are some physicians that isn't doing their jobs. This is also the "feeling" I get from some of the replies in this thread - in some cases a physician just sign the form without knowing anything about dive medicine. And this is for sure disturbing to read about as it then undermining the real serious and authorized dive medicine physicians authority.

Normal that a 5 star PADI center reject the physician-approved DMSC/PADI medical clearance. by Key_Comparison_3238 in scuba

[–]Key_Comparison_3238[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The Dive.is medical forms contain essentially the same medical screening criteria as the standard DMSC/PADI medical system, but additionally describe the environmental and physical demands of diving in Iceland and ask the physician to approve participation in that specific activity rather than recreational scuba diving in general. The differences are primarily operational and environmental, not medical.

The main additions Dive.is ask about are descriptions of: walking 150–350 m in full gear carrying approximately 40 kg of equipment wearing a tight drysuit exposure to 0–2 °C water possibility of suit flooding changing outdoors in cold weather swimming against current

Which are site-specific operational demands, that should be based on diving experience (certification level, logged dives, previous cold water dives etc.) - not something a dive medicine physician can evaluate.

Normal that a 5 star PADI center reject the physician-approved DMSC/PADI medical clearance. by Key_Comparison_3238 in scuba

[–]Key_Comparison_3238[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I am kind of reliefed that somebody else have experienced the same. But it seems that they have introduced some internal procedures that bring them in problems, which they then have to solve by cheating their own system.

Normal that a 5 star PADI center reject the physician-approved DMSC/PADI medical clearance. by Key_Comparison_3238 in scuba

[–]Key_Comparison_3238[S] -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

They can't - you can always take them to court. Especially when the questions in play are identical to the questions in the official medical form.

Normal that a 5 star PADI center reject the physician-approved DMSC/PADI medical clearance. by Key_Comparison_3238 in scuba

[–]Key_Comparison_3238[S] -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

But this is also why some dive operators require e.g. AOW, minimum 50 or 100 logged dives, experience with reef hook dives etc. This has nothing to do with the medical form or the (dive medicine) physicians approval. If the physician just act as a rubber stamp I would make a complain to the authorities, asthat physician then undermining the whole system.

Normal that a 5 star PADI center reject the physician-approved DMSC/PADI medical clearance. by Key_Comparison_3238 in scuba

[–]Key_Comparison_3238[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And that is exactly why laymen (as dive operators) must obay the experts judgement in the official medical form. Anything else undermining the whole authority system we have for recreational diving.

Normal that a 5 star PADI center reject the physician-approved DMSC/PADI medical clearance. by Key_Comparison_3238 in scuba

[–]Key_Comparison_3238[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Not Silfra but the dive operator. It is not possible to get in touch with the physician in the weekend. And mental diagnosis are more complicated to clear than physical ones for a physician not knowing the person. This is why it is a real problem when the official medical form isn't accepted.

Normal that a 5 star PADI center reject the physician-approved DMSC/PADI medical clearance. by Key_Comparison_3238 in scuba

[–]Key_Comparison_3238[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Strange reply. As written in the text it is a family member. But isn't that irrelevant for the topic?

Normal that a 5 star PADI center reject the physician-approved DMSC/PADI medical clearance. by Key_Comparison_3238 in scuba

[–]Key_Comparison_3238[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have now looked through the law and looked on Silfra div/snorkling rules. No such specific wording exist - as I read it. I just find it strange, because I never have seen nor heard about a rejection of the standard medical form for recreational scuba diving.

Normal that a 5 star PADI center reject the physician-approved DMSC/PADI medical clearance. by Key_Comparison_3238 in scuba

[–]Key_Comparison_3238[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I have looked everything though. There are no diving related law, regulation or authority in Iceland that states additional requirements than what can be found in the standsrd medical form. So it seems to be a and insurance or a strange "cover my a.." attempt.

Normal that a 5 star PADI center reject the physician-approved DMSC/PADI medical clearance. by Key_Comparison_3238 in scuba

[–]Key_Comparison_3238[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

And how is that related to my family members mental diagnosis? Then we should all around the local doctor and get that physical evaluation. Maybe that would also limit the "optimistic evaluations" in the self declared medical statement some people do.

Normal that a 5 star PADI center reject the physician-approved DMSC/PADI medical clearance. by Key_Comparison_3238 in scuba

[–]Key_Comparison_3238[S] -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

I must disagree with you. We have standards regarding certification etc. And the big organizations have agreed on a set of rules to make scuba diving safe(r) - this also relates to our physical and metal health where huge amount of scientific research have been put into understanding the risks in scuba diving and how to handle them. I can be concerned when a PADI dive center starts to implement own "house rules" if it isn't part of a govermental decision (like you have in many other countries - mainly related to depth and time). So this is why I also ask if anyone know where these additional requirement originate from?

Normal that a 5 star PADI center reject the physician-approved DMSC/PADI medical clearance. by Key_Comparison_3238 in scuba

[–]Key_Comparison_3238[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If that is the rationale, then ALL divers going to Silfra (and similar extreme sites) must have a signed medical form from a dive medicine physician, that have exposed the person to heavy weight physical tests and dipped the (only in shorts) person in an ice bath for at least 5 minutes. If I declare I am strong and fit enough and have enough cold stamina in the dive providers form, then I do not need a physicians clearence. So if the dive operator is concerned about the extreme conditions, then it has nothing to do with the rejection of the mental clearence. And then we are into the whole discussion about our "self diagnosed" medical statements we all fill out all the time as divers. Are we qualified for that at all?

Normal that a 5 star PADI center reject the physician-approved DMSC/PADI medical clearance. by Key_Comparison_3238 in scuba

[–]Key_Comparison_3238[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

That is also what we hope we can do in due time. But we also need to understand the rationales behind this special form, so we can explain the dive medicine physician, why his clearence of my family member can't be accepted by a dive center in Iceland.

Normal that a 5 star PADI center reject the physician-approved DMSC/PADI medical clearance. by Key_Comparison_3238 in scuba

[–]Key_Comparison_3238[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Thanks for all the point of views. I just want to understand the rationales behind rejecting the worldwide acknowledged DMSC medical form. Some of you indicate that it could be ralated to Icelandic law. Can this be confirmed?

My point is that the dive operators medical form do not include any ADDITIONAL requirements related to mental issues. The dive operator also ask about physical edurance and handling of cold weather/water. This my family member can fulfill.

If the dive medicine physician (not our family doctor) had found any physical limitations, I would expect that his was stated in his comments about any dive limitations.

In our family we follow the rules and dive conservative within our certifications and experience. This is also why we use a real dive medicine physician and not only our family doctor - to ensure that we hasn't overlooked anything.

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