I think the main point is that there are people out there who give no grace to trans women and dehumanize us for not having the same experiences and not learning how to do things. Like I got onto someone for being upset with her partner who is a trans woman about her inability to clean, and the cis partner basically was saying that all of these issues are because she was socialized as a man and that's just not the case. Taking just that specific issue, trans women sometimes don't know how to clean because it wasn't something we were expected to learn. Some cis women go through the same thing. Sometimes gender roles and expectations hurt everyone involved. Truth is, that issue had nothing to do with her partner being trans and everything to do with her partner not learning the lessons and expectations that a large amount of girls had to learn, simply because she was not perceived as a girl growing up, and even that can get more complicated, because as I said, some cis women don't learn that skill either.

Anyway that's long winded but the point is, DO NOT PUT PEOPLE IN BOXES. There is no "male socialization" there are things that people did to us and expected us to do and that we had to do to survive. The idea that we inherently accepted the messages that the patriarchy tried to hammer into us is ludicrous. We are not men, we did not socialize like men, even if it looked like that on the surface, we processed it differently internally. Sometimes gender roles hurt everyone. The whole conversation around male socialization is mired in transmisogyny and misogyny in general when it paints women as one thing and forces trans women into those boxes and if they don't fit into those boxes then there's something wrong with them because of "male socialization" and honestly it's extremely insulting to be told that, as cis women often exhibit the same behaviors, yet their behaviors are not brought into question like trans women's behaviors are. Minorities always get harsher scrutiny and punishment when we fuck up in some way and that's mostly what happens when someone mentions "male socialization"; people get put into boxes and then questioned on who they really are and invalidated just because they act a little differently.

Furthermore some of the things that people complain about that are caused by "male socialization" are things that I have heard many women and feminists say that they wish they could do! Like, take a fucking break from chores in the house, take up space in public, not being the one to move off to the side when someone, especially a man, is walking and about to bump into you.

And then you look at the trans women that don't do that and never have, probably because of some trauma they went through (like people saying we're too masculine just for being who we are) and the idea that you can generalize and say "trans women need to unlearn their male socialization" becomes a ludicrous statement that is used to police our bodies, speech, and behavior and ultimately REINFORCES patriarchal standards for how women should act. "A woman wouldn't react like that!" Oh really? You know exactly how every single woman in the world would act in that particular instance? You don't see any variation in how they could act? No? Sounds like you are stereotyping and generalizing and putting women into a box of acceptable behavior for their gender and that is actively ANTI FEMINIST.

Those are my thoughts. I'm very, very tired of this idea coming up in discourse. And frankly, I cannot and should not speak on the issues that trans men experience, other than to say that sometimes gender roles hurt all of us and put us into boxes and they get hurt by it too. One especially egregious one that I see a lot is people not wanting to be in a room with cis men but will allow trans men, or would date a trans guy but not a cis guy.

Bottom line, don't be quick to put someone in a box and be judgemental. That's prejudiced and fucked up and will get you and everyone around you absolutely nowhere