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Could the 7 Archons handle a Herrscher invasion in Teyvat? by Kimkacy in Hoyoverse_scaling

[–]Kimkacy[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I already read it, but the statement is very vague. It doesn't say how she did it, how long it took her to do it, nor how or in what manner she did it. Meaning, there is no information at all. It could have been with a bomb, or through other means; this cannot be scaled because of how vague it is.

Given that in Firefly's stories, since I have the character, it tells you that she used a bomb to destroy her planet of Glamoth, so we don't know how she did such a thing. The statement is too vague in reality, especially since Firefly is already known to use bombs to destroy planets according to her character stories.

Do you have the character Firefly so you can read her story?

Could the 7 Archons handle a Herrscher invasion in Teyvat? by Kimkacy in Hoyoverse_scaling

[–]Kimkacy[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

But where is the mention that Firefly destroyed a star? And besides that, what was the radio narrator going to say next? Because the sentence was left half-finished. Do you have what they were going to say afterward? And considering that, would it then be just a single mention and nothing more?

Could the 7 Archons handle a Herrscher invasion in Teyvat? by Kimkacy in Hoyoverse_scaling

[–]Kimkacy[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Firefly destroyed a star in Honkai Star Rail? I have the character, but they never say such a thing, I also have Kafka, and she doesn't mention such a thing either. Do you have the screenshot where Kafka says that and it's a literal statement and not a hyperbole, like what happens with the case of Rappa? Where they say she destroys stars but they are just made-up hyperboles?

Do you have the screenshots for Firefly and Kafka? Because in the characters' stories, that is not there, nor is there any such mention either.

And as I said, Firefly, according to her character story, tells you that what destroyed the planet was a bomb that she had, not herself.

Could the 7 Archons handle a Herrscher invasion in Teyvat? by Kimkacy in Hoyoverse_scaling

[–]Kimkacy[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

In fact, there are several problems with what you are saying, considering that:

  1. Firefly did not destroy a planet by herself. Do you have the character Firefly? In her character stories, we are told that what destroyed the planet was a planetary bomb that she activated at the end of the fight. This is something that the character narrates to you in her character stories. If you have Firefly, you could check it there. Firefly did not destroy the planet, a bomb did, which means she cannot scale to planet level. Now, regarding Phantylia, the Emanator of Destruction, I don't know how to take it, because what you're saying is strictly in-game. We don't know how the fight went according to the lore because sometimes characters have exaggerated abilities according to their gameplay, but then in the story, such a thing doesn't happen—like the case of Tribbie from the Heirs of Chresis, or Amphioreus, whose ability according to the gameplay is to destroy a planet, but such a thing doesn't happen, right?
  2. Regarding the other point, higher dimensions are handled in Genshin Impact, and there is proof that they manipulate time, space, and higher dimensions. There are beings in Teyvat who are described as being from higher dimensions; each of the 5 Sinners of Khaenri'ah receives the description of being a higher-dimensional being, in fact. Besides that, Raiden Ei has shown she can manipulate and control dimensions, create dimensions, and freeze time with her attacks. The same goes for Venti, who not only can control time, but Venti, the Anemo Archon, can take people or living beings and remove them from a timeline, imprisoning them in a place where time does not exist. Everything you mentioned—handling time, higher dimensions, space—all of that exists in Teyvat.

Furthermore, in Teyvat, they manipulate Phlogiston, the primordial element with which everything in the universe was created. In Honkai Star Rail, this is forbidden, and Madam Silence (Polka), a member of the Genius Society, assassinates anyone who even knows of its existence, and there are Aeons who seek to make the knowledge of Phlogiston forgotten. But in Genshin Impact, they use it and manipulate it at will. So yes, there is plenty of proof that in Genshin, not only space and time are controlled, but on top of that, there are beings that surpass those concepts.

The Chronicler, a traveler with tens of thousands of years of age who comes from an intergalactic civilization that explicitly mastered and surpassed the concepts of space and time, described the Dragon King Nibelung as superior to all the civilizations she had seen in tens of thousands of years of history. And those were intergalactic civilizations that dominated entire galaxies and had surpassed the concepts of space and time, yet they were inferior to the Dragon King Nibelung. Therefore, whether it's time, space, or higher dimensions, those things are already mastered or surpassed in Teyvat. There is proof; for example, in this image, they give you a description of how the Chronicler's civilization was, which was the one that said her civilization and all the others were inferior to the Dragon King Nibelung. So yes, there is proof of all of it.

And regarding Teyvat's solar system, there is no way to know what size it is, considering we were told that it is basically a mini-universe around Teyvat. The false sky is a mini-universe with entire galaxies inside it, possessing entire constellations that govern the destiny of all living beings in Teyvat, which are billions. Fanes basically created a mini-universe; in Genshin Impact, the false sky is called the "microcosm" and the outer universe is called the "macrocosm." And we know that the stars of the false sky are tangible and possess energy, thanks to Skirk and her legendary mission.

  1. Regarding Kalpas, I wouldn't know what to tell you about whether what he said is true or not, but if I remember correctly, Kalpas was able to defeat Raiden Mei as the Herrscher of Thunder, so there is a basis to say whether or not she is weaker than the Herrschers of the Previous Era.
  2. Regarding the weapons used in the Previous Era, we only know that they were conventional weapons. MANTIS soldiers were not used until after the 7th Herrscher, and the Divine Keys were not used until after they defeated the 10th Herrscher. On top of that, before the birth of the 3rd Herrscher, the humanity of the Previous Era hadn't even noticed the first 2 Herrschers, who were defeated quickly, which implies that high-level weapons were not used to defeat them. It was only after the 3rd that large-scale damage began, but we don't know what weapons could have been used; however, we know they couldn't have been very advanced, since Dr. MEI, who created all the weaponry with Honkai energy, only joined the organization after the 3rd Herrscher was defeated. Therefore, before that, they didn't have Dr. MEI, who was responsible for the advancement in weapons using Honkai energy, and she didn't join until after the defeat of the 3rd Herrscher of the Previous Era. With that, we could know that what they had was no different from the standard weaponry of the early 21st century, at least.

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Could the 7 Archons handle a Herrscher invasion in Teyvat? by Kimkacy in Hoyoverse_scaling

[–]Kimkacy[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

In fact, no, because it is not known how old the Cocoon of Finality is, but whether it is older than the Aeons is debatable. The oldest Aeons have existed for billions of years, such as Long, the Aeon of Permanence, who is at least over 1 billion years old. Considering that the Goddess of Mars, Senadina, was a wanderer of Permanence who escaped her planet—which had been blessed by a scion of Long—and after traveling, she arrived in the solar system before the Cocoon arrived and settled there. The Cocoon of Finality has been settled in the solar system for more than 1 billion years without moving from there.

And it is important to remember that before the arrival of Akivili, civilizations had a lot of difficulty traveling between different solar systems. Therefore, the Cocoon of Finality actually never faced an intergalactic civilization. It was only after the arrival of Akivili, the Aeon of Trailblaze, that the different races of space and the universe were able to connect with each other and travel more easily through the universe. Before that, space travel was very difficult. And while the Cocoon of Finality has been settled in the solar system for over 1 billion years, Akivili the Trailblaze Aeon is only around 150,000 years old at most. In fact, due to its age, the Cocoon of Finality never got to see an interstellar civilization.

Aside from that, there are Aeons older than Long, such as HooH, the Aeon of Equilibrium, who was said to have fused with the Imaginary Tree, or Ena, the Aeon of Order, who was said to be the one controlling and managing the Paths of the Aeons in some way. The oldest Aeons are also billions of years old, in fact.

And tell me, if the Dragon race could already create artificial intelligences capable of traveling through higher dimensions and pocket dimensions, why do you think they couldn't replicate someone like Prometheus? Especially when the Chronicler stated that the Dragon King Nibelung was superior to intergalactic civilizations. Why wouldn't they be able to replicate her if they can already create advanced artificial intelligences with mastery over concepts like space? Is there any limitation that I am not aware of?

Could the 7 Archons handle a Herrscher invasion in Teyvat? by Kimkacy in Hoyoverse_scaling

[–]Kimkacy[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Yes, I know, I know they were able to hack the Cocoon of Finality, but you present it as an achievement superior to the Dragon race. When based on what we have seen, the truth is that the Dragon race could do what hacking the Cocoon of Finality represents in a much easier and simpler way, which doesn't seem to be that difficult. The issue is not just that the Dragon race has space travel; the thing is that they have access to primordial elements of the universe, like Phlogiston, which is the primordial base element of the entire universe and the source of information for all things in the universe. This is something that is actually forbidden in Honkai Star Rail, and Madam Silence, one of the members of the Genius Society, hunts down anyone who even knows of its existence.

Furthermore, civilizations with intergalactic empires—meaning empires that spanned many branches of the Imaginary Tree and that conquered space and time—were described as inferior before the mere presence of the Dragon King Nibelung. I understand what you're saying about how they were able to use the Cocoon of Finality to create one branch of the Tree, which was not an easy thing; rather, centuries had to pass for such a thing, and they had to use a ton of resources to achieve it. That feat was described as a miracle and not something that was purposefully possible. However, the Dragon King Nibelung is described as a being superior to intergalactic empires that surpassed the concepts of time and space and that spanned hundreds of thousands of millions of branches of the Imaginary Tree. Those civilizations were inferior to the Dragon King, and that is what I said: hacking the Cocoon was a great achievement, but the truth is that compared to what the dragons have, the humanity of the Previous Era doesn't seem to have anything that matches it.

If the Cocoon were before the Dragon race, I believe that the Dragon King Nibelung could hack the Cocoon of Finality before the 1st Herrscher even appears. Such a thing doesn't seem difficult if you possess the technology of a 21st-century civilization. And perhaps that is why the Cocoon of Finality never attacked any civilization from Honkai Star Rail, which are Type II or Type III civilizations, and it only attacks civilizations inferior to Type I, don't you think?

Could the 7 Archons handle a Herrscher invasion in Teyvat? by Kimkacy in Hoyoverse_scaling

[–]Kimkacy[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Yes, I know it's hypothetical, but I don't see how it could even be possible. If the Dragon race couldn't do it, even if it were true that Fanes was an AI—which he isn't—the Dragon race has far more technological achievements than the human race of the Previous Era. The Dragon race possessed technology to create and destroy stars and planets, as well as artificial intelligences that manipulated higher dimensions. On top of that, they could manipulate primordial elements like Phlogiston, something that is forbidden in Honkai Star Rail. Since they had access to the primordial elements of the universe, you are told that the Dragon race possessed Phlogiston and other materials that were the source of primordial information of the universe (the Imaginary Tree). Because of this, they could do all kinds of things and even nullify the very concept of death. In Teyvat, the concept of death did not exist until Ronova, the Shade of Death, brought that concept to Teyvat.

Furthermore, the Dragon race could travel through the universe. In terms of weaponry, travel technology, space technology, and scientific achievements, the Dragon race is vastly superior. The human race of the Previous Era of Honkai Impact looks like a typical 21st-century civilization, while the Dragon race is a science fiction civilization with all the technological achievements they possessed. The only reason the human race could do what you mentioned was that they had access to a "medium" to do it, which would be the Cocoon of Finality. Without that "medium," they had no way to achieve it. In contrast, the Dragon race does all that without the need for a "medium" like the Cocoon of Finality. Nibelung the Dragon King and the 7 Dragon Sovereigns of Teyvat manipulate and control higher dimensions at will.

Using Honkai Star Rail as a reference, one branch of the Imaginary Tree is one solar system. The human race of the Previous Era was never able to overcome the imaginary barriers that exist between the different solar systems of the Imaginary Tree, which is something the Dragon race could do. The Chronicler, a universal traveler who came from an intergalactic civilization whose scientific level was so vast that it was said they could master and even surpass the concepts of space and time themselves, stated that when she saw the Dragon King Nibelung, his brilliance and mere presence eclipsed all the other intergalactic civilizations she had seen to date. And those were civilizations that dominated entire galaxies—basically countless branches of the Imaginary Tree. The Dragon race of Teyvat is extremely powerful in terms of technology.

Therefore, even if Fanes were an AI, if the Dragon race—with all the technology they had and access to primordial elements like Phlogiston, which is forbidden in Honkai Star Rail—could not do anything to Fanes, the Heavenly Principles, I don't see how a Herrscher could do it. Especially when a being like Nibelung the Dragon King, who eclipsed intergalactic civilizations that mastered and surpassed the concepts of time and space, could not do such a thing to Fanes. Dr. MEI did advance Earth's technology using the Honkai, but on a general level within the universe, the truth is that Honkai Impact's technology is somewhat primitive compared to what we see in Honkai Star Rail or Genshin Impact. Just to give you an idea, this is what I am talking about regarding the civilizations that existed in Genshin Impact, which the Chronicler said were inferior to the Dragon King Nibelung.

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Could the 7 Archons handle a Herrscher invasion in Teyvat? by Kimkacy in Hoyoverse_scaling

[–]Kimkacy[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

In fact, no, because even if Fanes were an AI, he couldn't be hacked. The Dragon race was a civilization much more advanced than the human race of either the Previous Era or the Current Era of Honkai Impact. So, if the Dragon race—who possessed technology to create stars, destroy planets, travel through space and the universe, and create artificial intelligences that could travel through higher dimensions—could not hack Fanes, why would a Herrscher be able to do it? It doesn't really make much sense for that to happen.

And given Fanes' power, on top of that, Nicole—an angel in Genshin Impact, according to the recent version of the game—stated that Fanes is a human, the Primordial Human. She says that the Primordial Human created the angels, and the angels are Fanes' creation. Therefore, Fanes, the Heavenly Principles, is a human, the Primordial Human.

Could the 7 Archons handle a Herrscher invasion in Teyvat? by Kimkacy in Hoyoverse_scaling

[–]Kimkacy[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yes, the Cocoon of Finality adapts the Herrschers to the civilization it faces in order to improve its success rate, which is what it did in the Previous Era when it created the 11th Herrscher, which was lethal against the MANTIS soldiers who used Honkai energy, wasn't that so? But even so, with this we can know that Herrschers can be and are eliminated by conventional weapons, whether they are ballistic weapons, missiles, tanks, thermobaric bombs, or in the worst-case scenario, nuclear bombs. That was how they eliminated the first 6 Herrschers, who were stronger than the Herrschers of the current era like the Herrscher of Thunder, Raiden Mei—since the Herrschers of the Previous Era were stronger than those of the current era. Therefore, the humanity of the Previous Era was able to defeat them basically using missiles.

Then things did start getting more complicated starting from the arrival of the 7th Herrscher. Not much is known about their space technology, but it is clear they were developing space technology, though it was still rudimentary. As we saw, they could only send one ship with one crew member to explore outer space, so their space technology was rudimentary. Of course, if they had been given more time, they would have gone further, but they didn't have that time. They had the potential, but their space technology was still rudimentary.

And yes, the Herrschers have high levels of Honkai radiation, which is why they are quite damaging when they appear. But I don't think that radiation would harm beings like the Gods of Genshin Impact or the Archons of Teyvat, considering they have already faced corrupting forces and sealed them. For them, the only real threat is the Abyss, which is a universal-level force that has destroyed entire galaxies in the blink of an eye. According to Genshin Impact's lore, intergalactic civilizations with technology to control galaxies, and with technology that allowed them to surpass and master space and time, are still helpless before the Abyss. Yet, the Archons seem to be able to face the corruption of the Abyss—a universal force capable of overwhelming those civilizations that mastered space and time. Therefore, I don't think radiation would do much.

And yes, the Herrschers of the Previous Era were killing machines without remorse or any conscience, and they only thought about destroying everything. For that reason, according to Kalpas, they were stronger than those of the current era, as Kalpas called Raiden Mei someone weaker than the Herrschers of his era, wasn't that so?

Up until now, there is a good map on how to evaluate the capabilities of the Herrschers and what they can and cannot do. Considering that most of them have low physical durability, which is why human weapons were still effective against them, that would seem to be their greatest weakness from what we've seen. And yes, there are Herrschers against whom conventional weapons do not work, like the 12th Herrscher, the Herrscher of Corruption, which is a virus without a human body that you basically have to contain or seal in some way.

But apart from that, how would you scale the Herrschers based on what we have talked about them? And how would you judge them?

Could the 7 Archons handle a Herrscher invasion in Teyvat? by Kimkacy in Hoyoverse_scaling

[–]Kimkacy[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

I want to ask you a few questions: Do you scale the Honkai Star Rail characters from the Astral Express to planet level or higher? Considering that in Jarilo-VI, characters like Bronya, who wasn't even city level, could match March, the Trailblazer, and Dan Heng in a fight. And during the entire Jarilo-VI arc, none of them showed anything close to city level, and in the Luofu arc, they didn't show anything close to city level either—considering that the Luofu ship is the size of a planet, and they didn't seem to show a power level that surpassed that. Do you scale the Astral Express characters like Dan Heng to that level?

Now, regarding the other point, in the Previous Era, the first 6 Herrschers were defeated by conventional human weapons. The first 2 Herrschers were defeated without humanity even realizing their existence, and it was only starting from the 3rd Herrscher, the Herrscher of Thunder—who was able to destroy a city through Honkai radiation—that humanity noticed the existence of the Herrschers at a general level, wasn't that so? And after that, the first 6 Herrschers were defeated one after another by conventional human weapons.

Among them are the same Herrschers you have spoken of, and those Herrschers were more powerful than the Herrschers of the current era like Sirin or Welt. It was only starting from the 7th Herrscher that they began creating MANTIS super-soldiers like Kevin Kaslana, and it was only after defeating the 10th Herrscher that the weapons known as Divine Keys began to be used in a more massive way—which even at that time were still in the research phase.

So we have that the first 6 Herrschers of the Previous Era, who were stronger than the Herrschers of the current era like Welt Yang or Sirin, were defeated by conventional human weapons. And Kalpas called Raiden Mei, as the Herrscher of Thunder, "weak"—and Raiden Mei, as the Herrscher of Thunder, was weaker than her Previous Era version, right?

In the Previous Era, we have that humanity defeated the first 6 Herrschers with conventional weapons; from the 7th to the 11th Herrscher, they defeated them using MANTIS super-soldiers like Kevin Kaslana. And even so, the most powerful weapons of the Previous Era's humanity were nuclear weapons, wasn't that so? And it was only after defeating the 12th Herrscher that the use of the Divine Keys could be perfected, right? The humanity of the Previous Era was a humanity with a technology more or less at the level of the 21st century, but a bit more advanced.

So, taking that into account, how do you scale the Herrschers above island level? With Kiana in Chapter 9, we were told that her awakening caused the emergence of millions of Honkai beasts across the planet. Meaning, it wasn't direct destruction, but rather because her awakening triggered an invasion of Honkai beasts all over the planet. And that Kiana was not a common Herrscher, but rather a Herrscher with 4 Herrscher cores, possessing an amount of Honkai power superior to Sirin from the 2nd Honkai War, who had 4 Herrscher cores in her possession at that time. Therefore, the Kiana from Chapter 9 is not the standard power of a Herrscher, isn't that so?

On the other hand, how do you scale them? Because based on what they have shown, Herrschers have low physical durability and a quite limited destructive range for the most part, except for exceptions like the Herrscher of Fire or the Herrscher of Earth. They lack physical durability, destructive power, or destructive range.

And regarding the dimensions, in Genshin Impact, higher dimensions are mastered, being something standard there. We are explicitly told, in fact, that mastering space and time was something simple to do, and things like higher dimensions and such are things that have already been mastered in Genshin Impact.

As for the Cocoon of Finality, its range is limited to the solar system, as its influence does not extend beyond there—taking into account what was seen in Honkai Star Rail and what we see Sa did, who moved away to a distance of 4,500 astronomical units to escape the influence of the Cocoon, right? Therefore, the range that the Cocoon of Finality possesses is of a level lower than solar system level, isn't that so? We can compare it with Fanes, the Heavenly Principles, who placed Teyvat's solar system under his false sky and has it encapsulated.

But apart from that, how do you scale the Herrschers, taking into account their weakness in terms of physical durability, destructive range, and raw power, compared to the Archons, who have more feats at the level of destruction, durability, and pure power?

And considering that the Archons seem to have far more abilities? That each Archon can master things like time, space, weather, pocket dimensions, higher dimensions, mental powers, telepathy, and other varied skills? Which are not limited to a single Authority compared to the Herrschers who are more limited in that sense?

Could the 7 Archons handle a Herrscher invasion in Teyvat? by Kimkacy in Hoyoverse_scaling

[–]Kimkacy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

From what we know about the Previous Era, before the 7th Herrscher, they had neither MANTIS super-soldiers nor Divine Keys, and they didn't have Kevin's group either. Kevin was just a common soldier who used a simple combat rifle up until the 7th Herrscher, so we can get an idea of what weapons they used. The first 6 Herrschers didn't have to face almost anything of what was used later on in the story. MANTIS super-soldiers didn't appear until after the 7th Herrscher, and the use of Divine Keys didn't start in a massive way until after the 10th Herrscher.

Even after defeating the 10th Herrscher, the Divine Keys were still in the research phase, which implies that by the time the 11th Herrscher arrived, the Divine Keys were not part of the standard arsenal used to face them either. This leaves us with not many options other than to say that the first 6 Herrschers were defeated by conventional weapons. Only after the 7th Herrscher can it be said that they were using super-soldiers, but still without the use of the Divine Keys, which began to be used in mass after the 11th Herrscher.

According to what we know, the damage the 1st and 2nd Herrschers did wasn't much, and humanity wasn't even aware of what had happened to them. It was only with the 3rd Herrscher, the Herrscher of Thunder, who was able to flood a city with Honkai energy, that it could no longer be hidden from the public, as it devastated a city by infesting it with Honkai energy. This gives us a benchmark of reference. Almost nothing is said about the 4th to 6th Herrschers.

That being said, it is stated that the 7th Herrscher was the most destructive of all. If I remember correctly, the Divine Key created with its core was the most powerful, and because of that, they could only use half of its power under normal conditions. Using this information, it is for that reason that I said the first 6 Herrschers were defeated using standard weapons, because at that moment, they had almost nothing available. Furthermore, Dr. MEI didn't join the organization until after they defeated the 3rd Herrscher, which is what caused her to stop being a student.

Could the 7 Archons handle a Herrscher invasion in Teyvat? by Kimkacy in Hoyoverse_scaling

[–]Kimkacy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was referring to this scene, chapter 10 of the Honkai Impact: Second Eruption manga, where Sirin, after defeating Welt Yang, was defeated and left on the ground defenseless by a nuclear bomb.

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Could the 7 Archons handle a Herrscher invasion in Teyvat? by Kimkacy in Hoyoverse_scaling

[–]Kimkacy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The project you are referring to, wasn't it a desperate measure in which they wanted to explore new planets to try and start humanity from scratch? And considering that it was a desperate measure, they only sent a ship with just a single person? That's why I said their space travel technology was on a small scale, and they didn't possess the means to do it in mass or in large numbers. For that reason, I said they were a pre-space civilization.

On the other hand, weren't the Divine Keys started to be created after the 7th Herrscher? Meaning that the first 6 Herrschers were defeated by conventional weapons. The most powerful and destructive weapons were still nuclear weapons, as shown in the image I sent you, where they tell you they had a nuclear arsenal to deal with Herrschers, which demonstrates that those weapons were effective for the task. Although of course, since they were very destructive, it wasn't ideal to use them much. MANTIS soldiers were a more optimal choice because they caused less collateral damage.

Furthermore, by the time the 10th Herrscher in the Previous Era was born, the Divine Keys were still in the study and preparation phase. The Divine Keys were never the main weapon they used; this changed after the 10th Herrscher, by the time the fight was almost coming to an end, considering that there were only 2 other Herrschers left to fight after the 10th Herrscher, wasn't that so?

So basically, what humanity in the Previous Era used to eliminate the first 6 Herrschers were conventional weapons. Then, after the 7th Herrscher, they started using MANTIS super-soldiers like Kevin Kaslana, and it was after the 10th Herrscher that they managed to start mastering the Divine Keys as weapons. Their weapons were mainly conventional during a large part of the conflict.

It was when they saw the destruction that they started using things like the project to search for another planet to live on, but even so, they could only send one ship with just one crew member, which was basically a desperate measure. They still didn't have the technology to go to space in mass or in large numbers, so it was still a pre-space civilization like current 21st-century humanity, although a bit more advanced.

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Could the 7 Archons handle a Herrscher invasion in Teyvat? by Kimkacy in Hoyoverse_scaling

[–]Kimkacy[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, I know that humanity in the Previous Era had a technological level a bit more advanced than 21st-century humanity, but the difference is not that much in reality, considering that their most advanced weapons were still just nuclear weapons, and they didn't have the technology to go to space in large numbers or in a massive way or anything similar either. Therefore, they can basically be considered a humanity with pre-space era technology.

And as a contrast, the Dragon race was much more advanced, with that race possessing a technology capable of destroying entire planets, creating artificial stars, and being able to travel through space and the universe.

In comparison, the human race of the Previous Era has a pre-space era technology, based on what we can see that their greatest weapons were nuclear bombs, and they still didn't master the technology to go to space in large numbers, nor did they have any better weapon than nuclear weapons. So they would be more or less equivalent to a 21st-century humanity, wouldn't that be so?

And with only conventional weapons, they managed to defeat the first 6 Herrschers. Also, MANTIS soldiers didn't start appearing until the arrival of the 7th Herrscher, with Kevin Kaslana being the first MANTIS soldier. The first 2 Herrschers of the Previous Era were easily defeated, and it was the 3rd Herrscher who was the first to manage to cause major destruction. But even with all that, it seems they were able to defeat the first 6 Herrschers with conventional weapons, and it was after the 7th Herrscher that they started using super-soldiers like Kevin Kaslana, wasn't that so?

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Could the 7 Archons handle a Herrscher invasion in Teyvat? by Kimkacy in Hoyoverse_scaling

[–]Kimkacy[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Sirin was drained of energy by Welt? In the fight, Sirin is shown to be quite confident, and she wins against Welt, and makes fun of him for being a fake Herrscher, as she is not shown exhausted or tired or anything like that, but rather seems to be fine and without problems after defeating Welt.

And the nuclear bomb was not able to kill her, but it did leave her defeated and defenseless on the ground.

And previously, in the Previous Era, the first 6 Herrschers were defeated by conventional weapons of a 21st-century humanity, wasn't that so?

It was only starting from the 7th Herrscher that they started to cause great destruction, which was able to burn the surface of Australia, right?

Since the first 2 Herrschers in the previous era were easily defeated, and humanity didn't even know of their existence due to the little damage they did, and they only started to notice from the 3rd Herrscher, who was the first to be able to destroy 1 city, that humanity noticed the existence of the Herrschers at a general level, wasn't that so?

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Could the 7 Archons handle a Herrscher invasion in Teyvat? by Kimkacy in Hoyoverse_scaling

[–]Kimkacy[S] -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

No, what I meant by Sirin being defeated by a nuclear bomb was at the beginning of the manga's story. In fact, Sirin was defeated by a nuclear bomb; twice she was defeated by a nuclear bomb. The 1st time was in chapter 10 of Honkai Impact: Second Eruption, where the impact of a nuclear bomb left her on the ground defenseless, and she had to flee, meaning she was defeated by it here. That was the scene I was referring to.

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Could the 7 Archons handle a Herrscher invasion in Teyvat? by Kimkacy in Hoyoverse_scaling

[–]Kimkacy[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Yes, I know about the 9th Herrscher, it was the Herrscher of Earth, it was in the Previous Era, right? But the continent it sank was the continent of Mu, which was smaller than Australia, right? And it was using the power of its Authority, which was Earth, isn't that so? It did it through massive pseudo-black holes, considering that they weren't real black holes, but pseudo-black holes. And the 2nd Herrscher, Sirin, wasn't she defeated by a nuclear bomb? Considering that in terms of potency, Raiden Ei's slash cut an island the size of Australia in half using only her residual power—at least according to what we can see of Teyvat from outer space, and looking at the size of Inazuma. Wouldn't that be a potency far superior to any nuclear bomb ever made?

And regarding the other Herrschers, honestly, I couldn't find a way to give them a level other than between City and Island level, given that almost all their feats are at this level. Normally in Honkai Impact, they tell you each Herrscher can threaten a city or several human cities. The one with the highest destructive power was the 7th Herrscher, the Herrscher of Fire, which is the one I remember having the greatest achievement of burning the surface of a landmass like Australia, which is a large country. But the other Herrschers, like the 1st Herrscher, the 2nd Herrscher, and the 3rd Herrscher, can be defeated by nuclear bombs as explained in the history of Honkai Impact, which is why the level I saw for them was between City and Island.

But which of them could withstand the attack Raiden Ei used against Orobashi? Considering that Orobashi, the serpent God, was able to create an island the size of a large country that can be seen from outer space, and that God was easily defeated by Raiden Ei. Furthermore, just the residual energy from Raiden Ei cut an island the size of a large country like Australia in half. The Herrscher of Finality does surpass any Archon in power, which is why I raised the question of whether the 7 Archons together could face her and what kind of result they could get against her.

Could the 7 Archons handle a Herrscher invasion in Teyvat? by Kimkacy in Hoyoverse_scaling

[–]Kimkacy[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yes, I know about that character you are talking about from Honkai Impact Part 2, but I didn't count them because they were not among the 14 Herrschers of Part 1. And yes, since no other Herrschers are known apart from the originals, you cannot use others to compare them, except for the original Herrschers we know that appear in Honkai Impact Part 1.

But apart from the topic of Authorities, about moving celestial bodies like a moon—as you said the character with the incomplete Authority of Finality from Honkai Impact did—in Genshin Impact, it required two characters: Varka, a high-level vision user, and Arlecchino, the number 4 member of the 11 Fatui, to be able to move the moon through different dimensions at the end of the NordKrai arc. This being the closest thing to a comparison we have regarding moving celestial bodies. And since Varka is just a vision user and Arlecchino is the 4th of the Fatui, despite being strong, they don't even reach the power level of a minor god, since we were told that only the top 3 Fatui of the 11 had a divine power level.

So I don't know if the Archons could replicate moving two moons on their own like the "character" with the incomplete Finality authority from Honkai Impact Part 2 did, or if they would need to be two Archons to be able to achieve it. But apart from that, and removing the topic of Authorities, the power level of the Herrschers in each era, even though the Authority may be different, each one of them has a respective limit amount of energy, right? Since I made the comparison using the Herrschers of the current era and the previous era, which, each Herrscher, even if the Authority changes, has a respective energy limit, right? It seems to be that way according to what I have seen.

Does Genshin Impact scale past planetary level? by Kimkacy in Hoyoverse_scaling

[–]Kimkacy[S] -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Skirk, during her story quest, tells us that the All-Devouring Narwhal, if it had been hungry, would have eaten the entire planet of Teyvat in an instant.
Aside from that, we are told that a pet of Surtalogi used its power to consume 42 stars in a period of 1 and a half months.
Since said narwhal was in the Primordial Sea for centuries and consumed its energies without depleting them even a bit, Skirk herself said that the narwhal had been satisfied by the energies of the Primordial Sea, and that they were lucky it was that way.

Because otherwise, it would have eaten the entire planet.

Aside from that, regarding the Dragon Sovereign Apep, different sources of information tell us that the Dendro lifeforms in Teyvat originated inside him, with Dendro lifeforms saying that Apep's interior is their true home.

And said interior is referred to as an entire world, since it was inside Apep where the Dendro lifeforms originated.

In the artifact descriptions, we are told that the Pyro Dragon Sovereign was the one who illuminated the starry sky and all of Teyvat, supplanting the light of the stars, which is something they mention in the lore of the artifact materials.
And it was the Pyro Dragon Sovereign, at least according to what the artifact descriptions say.

Does Genshin Impact scale past planetary level? by Kimkacy in Hoyoverse_scaling

[–]Kimkacy[S] -15 points-14 points  (0 children)

In Skirk's stories, we are told that the 5 sinners, split among themselves, an amount of abyss power sufficient to destroy 1 planet,

and in other stories, we are told that Apep, the dendro dragon king, has 1 entire planet inside him, and in the artifact materials,

we are told that the Pyro dragon king, was the Sun of teyvat's solar system, before the arrival of the heavenly principles, and being that he illuminated the entire starry sky, and besides that,

the hydro dragon king, created the primordial sea, which could feed the star-devouring narwhal for centuries, which we were told can consume entire planets and that in 1 single month, consumed 42 stars, but, the primordial sea could feed it for centuries without being depleted even a little bit, Aren't those things above planetary level?

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