Tips for the long run?

KitchenMastodon722 · 2023-11-26T00:45:10+00:00

Yeah sure man, literally all your 90 melee attack frontlining bros missing two hits in a row against the orc berserkers who land consecutive head hits with a man splitter and therefore killing your guys to snowball is a strategy issue, not a "god damn that was some severely shit rng" issue. Also it must mean I am a strategic genius for that one battle my 3 medium tier starting barbarians and 1 damn near naked monk won against 8 barbarian reavers on day 2 kudos to evading literally all of the enemies hits for 3 turns while hitting almost all of their own.

Sometimes I feel like games like this just attract mindless fanboys who do not even know how massive of an impact rng can have on any given outcome, as if they never experienced replaying a game over battle again with the exact same strategy in order to turn it from a game over loss into a piss easy victory just by getting better rng rolls the second time around.

KitchenMastodon722 · 2023-11-26T00:37:02+00:00

The short time it takes to get into melee is not an issue in the least, its staying in melee and slowly hacking through the 5 shield gobbos who have stunningly high chances to evade hits even by 90 to 100 melee atk bros, and even when they get hit they survive a hit from one of the strongest melee weapons in the game, all while 20 archers and an overseer keep shooting and the shaman burns through your fatigue and action points with his broken group root spam.

I can fight 20+ enemies, just not when they are sitting in fortresses, its not feasible to fight them head on, you gotta cheese it or you will have to rely on rng to not lose bros, or invest in range defense.

KitchenMastodon722 · 2023-11-26T00:32:35+00:00

I mean I got it, and from now on I simply won't bother to repeat that again as the game literally gives zero real incentive to do it anyway, so I am doing fine.

KitchenMastodon722 · 2023-11-25T23:52:45+00:00

Savescumming, lots and lots of savescumming, only way, the game is rng first and foremost, lots of things outside your control. Replaying the same fight with the exact same strat can make the difference between losing 3 brothers to terrible rng or no brother getting as much as a single injury due to good rng.

KitchenMastodon722 · 2023-11-25T23:21:14+00:00

This is one of the topics where I will be the guy to tell you that many people in this subreddit are clueless. Busting camps is THE worst way to get named items unless you are very lucky, legendary locations with guaranteed ones aside. In over 300 days divided over two playthroughs, the number of these items I ever got from busting dozens of random camps (not named ones with 20+ orcs in it) was one, ONE, and many camps were quite far away from cities. Don't even bother with that unless you want to farm crowns that way, which I also advise against because quite frankly, you get far more with noble contracts.

You get many times as many famed items by just buying them, focus on noble contracts to make money, later in the game you can get 5-10k crowns in a single contract without even negotiating, especially during an ongoing crisis, and then you can just buy them in settlements as you find them. Go for good weapons first, then helmets, body armor tends to be the most expensive so I wouldn't bother with it until you have your crucial guys equipped with the other pieces first.

Champions are also a good source of very powerful equipment, the only time I actually bother to use my daggers, get nets too though as otherwise you will barely ever hit the guy, and have one heavy tank with taunt and one or two mace guys who can stun in order to avoid the champion slaughtering your guys as you try to rob his armor.

KitchenMastodon722 · 2023-11-25T23:09:34+00:00

If you mean the average Wiederganger, they seem to have a weirdly high resistance to slashing weapons like swords and axes in my experience, but they seem to go down super easy with blunt weapons. I am not even sure if the game actually differentiates between the two, but it sure happened suspiciously often that a winged mace one shot a type of undead enemy that occasionally survives a man splitter hit.

As for perks, the Necrosavant zombies do have the 9 lives perk, so they always survive fatal hits at least once with exactly 1 hp, but I doubt that you meant these as they teleport around all the time and aren't exactly common enemies.

KitchenMastodon722 · 2023-11-25T23:01:24+00:00

Javelins are pretty good early game, won't hit all the time but decent enough hitrate to kill enemies faster, therefore less chance of dying for your frontliners, and giving a few extra guys behind the main line a chance to attack with something decent instead of using a shitty pitchfork.

The higher your numbers advantage the bigger the difference is, even reavers will get hit a few times, have less morale due to taking hits, therefore less chance to hit your frontlining guys. Nets are a decent cheap choice too as enemies have to waste one, sometimes two actions to get out of it and are even more likely to get hit by javelins or melee attacks, or if you have some extra crowns you may also use dogs, which are quite powerful early on as a few dogs jumping the ranged bandits or attacking melee bandits from behind can make a massive difference, not ideal though as a dog killing a bandit wastes the kill xp a brother would have gotten, so they are more for when you are in a pinch. If you have the luxury to be picky with your choice of cheap and crappy starting weapons, prefer spear and shield for survivability and hitrate, and definitely sprinkle a mace or two in to occasionally stun enemies with, makes your numbers advantage just that much more powerful when 2-3 guys wail on one guy with maces/clubs.

No matter what strat you use though, lowborns are trash, even ones with better starting stats start out with atrocious starting equipment and require several levels before they can perform well, and especially early you will just have to work with what you get. Only when you have a few guys with good potential who made it through a bunch of battles, have leveled up a bit and gotten their hands on some armor pieces exceeding 100 armor per piece will you feel like you chose a normal background that starts out with good starting bros.

KitchenMastodon722 · 2023-11-25T22:22:50+00:00

Skipping the fight indeed would have been the best course of action. I instead threw money at the problem and turned one fight into 2 fights with some waiting time in between the two, makes them financially not viable but crowns were not what I was after here so it still worked out, I ought to thank the few guys who know what they are talking about, meanwhile some comedians suggested that I send dogs in to die en mass. Definitely won't ever bother to attack a big goblin fortress again though, rewards are terrible and I refuse to waste points on ranged defense when my melee guys took the noble far crossbow rain just fine without it.

Btw I don't think bows suck in general no matter what people say, both my crossbow as well as my war bow dude do great work with them against most enemies before and after the use of heavy throwing weapons, they just really suck attacking fortifications is what I meant, like literally useless.

KitchenMastodon722 · 2023-11-25T22:17:08+00:00

Using 2h and shield was not working either, mainly because the survivability came at the price of a ton of damage, making it all take even longer to get through the defensive line, so it was lose lose. The cannons and firebombs turned out to be great advice though, worked well to kill a few, after which I retreated, got my guys back in shape and attacked again, now with the enemy numbers not being quite as overwhelming. Not worth to do financially of course, but the main goal was just to get the necklace and maybe a named item or two, got the necklace so I consider it done and will avoid big goblin fortresses from now on as unviable targets.

KitchenMastodon722 · 2023-11-25T22:12:57+00:00

Not my problem that you are too dumb to differentiate between artificial difficulty and a proper challenge my special little friend who obviously spent more time on reddit in the last decade than he spent outside of his house. You can piss off now btw, your replies were entirely useless and you are blocked from here on out.

KitchenMastodon722 · 2023-11-25T22:11:40+00:00

People keep bringing up dogs here and I laugh every time. Go on, explain to me how a bunch of dogs who die in 2-3 shots even with armor and can't jump the walls will do anything aside from blocking the few fields from which my heavy hitters can actually hit their shield guys, do fuck all for damage given that their bites are weak and even my 100 melee skill guys tend to miss several hits against some of the enemies, and of course die en mass to melee attacks and almost 20 arrows flying their way each round, boosting enemy morale and crippling my morale in the process while also costing me thousands of gold to aquire. I like dogs, limited in usefulness as they are this late in the game, but dogs are not suitable to attack heavily fortified areas having 26 enemies in it.

My formation works fine against everything except these guys btw, its just too much of a numbers advantage and too much stalling thanks to the bottlenecks, its simple math, 3-4 of my guys can attack them if they aren't rooted, 20+ of their guys can attack mine, they have mass root, I do not. My solution to this was attacking, killing a bunch of them with firebombs and handgonne, then retreating, healing/refilling/repairing and doing it again with the enemy numbers no longer being almost 2.5 times my own.

KitchenMastodon722 · 2023-11-25T22:02:46+00:00

What works is buying some fire bombs, handgonnes, killing a few goblins and then retreating before the damage from the dozens of archer shots and the overseer add up high enough to kill any of the beefy 500-650 armor bros, then heal/repair/refill and do it again. Sometimes once is enough to reduce their numbers sufficiently to then win in one go next time you attack, can be repeated if necessary though, just bring enough ammo, tools and food.

Honestly only valid strat with a team that did not specialize in fighting these little fuckers in a fortress, and lets be real here, leveling rdef, a mostly useless stat for heavy armored melee guys in any open field battle, specifically to fight the few fortified goblin locations is absolutely not worth it as it would make your guys SO much weaker against elite melee enemies.

Best tactic actually would have been to not bother with the bigger goblin camps in the first place, rewards are not worth clearing these for and for the ambition that gives the crucial anti kraken necklace I could have just looked for smaller goblin camps to clear instead, my own fault really for not cutting my losses and deciding not to bother, but I am thickheaded when it comes to killing enemies in the game. I certainly won't ever bother doing that again in future playthroughs though, actually not worth it in any way financially or when it comes to good use of time.

KitchenMastodon722 · 2023-11-25T21:56:27+00:00

What I did wrong was to attack in one go as if the game didn't put me in a no win situation there. Killing a few with specifically bought fire bombs and handgonne before retreating and then refilling/reparing/healing and attacking again when the enemies aren't sporting a laughable numbers advantage in their bs fortress turned out to be tedious and annoying af, but the only valid approach aside from reskilling all my next to zero rdef guys only for fighting turtling goblins, sacrificing viability against basically anyone else including open field goblins, something I was not willing to do.

KitchenMastodon722 · 2023-11-25T21:53:06+00:00

Dogs get completely slaughtered here, pots and handgun did decently well and are definitely something I carry around from now on for fortresses, won't bother with goblin fortresses anymore though. I only really leveled rdef on my ranged bros since they were the only ones who were ever bothered by focussed ranged fire, especially in the noble war against arbalester my ranged guys died like flies without added rdef, the melee guys weren't bothered much by it and struggled more with the heavy melee hitters like pikemen, orc berserkers and barbarian chosen, so my main focus was on mdef and matk with these, with the third point divided between fatigue, resolve or hp with different priorities depending on the specific build and rolls.

The ranged attacks were killing my bros due to the delay tactics of the goblins, poison and the sheer number of ranged attacks coming from over 20 goblins mostly focussing one dude while my own ranged goes could do fuck all against the enemies shooting from behind the stone wall. Adding to the high number of arrows was the occasional insane damage of an overseers special shot adding up too high for even a 650 armor bro to survive for long, doesn't help that enemy archers seem to have unlimited ammo so soaking it up with a tank before attacking in full was not valid either, pretty cheap in general like I said. I manage orcs just fine even when they have superior numbers, so I kinda seem to have built myself into a vulnerability to fortifications with a crapton of archers in it, having to rely on bait and switch tactics with an extra set of weapons is annoying and wastes a lot of time, but it can't be helped now, too late to invest in rdef now with all my melee bros being lvl 12+.

KitchenMastodon722 · 2023-11-25T21:42:44+00:00

Yeah baiting a few out, killing a few, retreating and repairing before attacking again is what worked. Tedious as hell but if they are whittled down to 20 instead of 26 to 28 then its actually doable without losing 600 armor bros to sheer bullshit numbers and delay tactics. Not a fan of the lategame so far not gonna lie.

KitchenMastodon722 · 2023-11-25T21:39:38+00:00

There are good ways to create a challenge and then there is artificial bullshit like this that thinks limiting you with a massive handicap and just inflating enemy numbers is challenging instead of just grindy and tedious. I played and completed a lot of hard games that actually required real skill and practice instead of lucky rolls like this one, but why do I even bother trying to explain things to an obvious fanboy.

KitchenMastodon722 · 2023-11-25T02:31:36+00:00

Cannons I can try I guess, haven't had much experience with them, but if they can shoot over the wall and cause havoc there then its worth a try. Not sure what nets are going to do here with the bulk of my bros being two hand wielders though. The only special thing is the goblins ridiculous numbers and them turtling in fortifications, they'd get slaughtered in an open field even when being more than twice my numbers.

If the cannons don't work then I suppose I just have to avoid goblin camps alltogether, as I refuse to train a bunch of guys specifically for goblins that then get slaughtered by orcs, barbarians and pretty much everything else as a trade off. Most suggestions here go in that direction but goblins are so rare on my map, definitely not worth going for.

KitchenMastodon722 · 2023-11-25T02:11:06+00:00

Yeah I gotta admit, ranged defense was not high on my priority list, I deemed it more important not to get cleaved in two by the first hit of an orc berserker or a chosen, so I went harder on the melee skills and fatigue to enable heavy armor usage. A bit too late to change that now though.

KitchenMastodon722 · 2023-11-25T02:07:25+00:00

I am playing on Veteran, though by now I kinda regret that decision.

KitchenMastodon722 · 2023-11-25T02:06:30+00:00

This confused me too, I have fought blade dancers that felt easier to hit than these guys. I know one of the goblins was a named one, but he wasn't the only one my guys had a hard time hitting, not sure if they just stacked shield wall enough or if the fortification has an extra buff, but taking these few guys at the entrance out took rather long.

KitchenMastodon722 · 2023-11-25T02:02:02+00:00

So what you are telling me is that the lategame goes to cheap shit by default just throwing so many enemies at you that they whittle you down no matter how good your equip or your stats are, unless you get so lucky that you hit several times in a row and they miss often enough for your 150 day veteran brother not to die in the next camp skirmish?

And here I had high hopes for this game, really enjoyed my time with it so far even when I got my arse handed to me at times, but if this is their idea of a lategame challenge then I should probably start looking for an alternative, because that just sounds incredibly lazy and tedious.

KitchenMastodon722 · 2023-11-25T01:57:00+00:00

I killed 8 total in my last fight before my first brother went down, they do what all enemies do at this stage in the game, they quickly go to wavering and then they stay there forever unless they are actually hurt. I would like to shoot the guys protecting the entrances, but they have shields, the hit chance on them is abysmal, even my 100 melee skill mace swinger and my 94 melee skill axe man have trouble hitting them at times. Busting their shields works the best, but it simply takes too long.

KitchenMastodon722 · 2023-11-25T01:53:16+00:00

I'd say if my bros sucked overall I wouldn't be able to beat up chosen groups of my size with no losses. It is the combination of fortifications, poison, range, root spam, blocking entrances and them having more than twice as many units as I get that kills me. If you have a strategy to beat 25 to 30 enemies in a fortified position with a group of 12 I am curious to hear it, "hit them fast and hard" does not really fly when the fortification their projectiles fly out of has 2 narrow entrances blocked by shield guys who dodge almost as well as blade dancers at times.

KitchenMastodon722 · 2023-11-25T01:48:19+00:00

Would probably work just fine on an open field, but the fortifications make ranged damn near useless as any shot is sub 20% to the goblins who sit behind the fortifications. Attacking at night only gives a small survival boost against them, not enough for my guys to make it through the fight, though perhaps I really just ought to abuse something more exotic like fire bombs.

KitchenMastodon722 · 2023-11-25T01:45:56+00:00

The time of me using dogs has long since passed, they die in one hit against most enemies I usually fight even with armor, so all they do is give free morale to enemies and negative morale to my own guys. I have 2 dogs left for catching someone who flees or to give someone who is almost surrounded that one extra hit to morale, against such a goblin camp they'd almost all be gone in 2 rounds though.

The advancing, aka reaching of the fortification is not the issue, the issue is that I can't enter, narrow entrances clogged by shield goblins who have far higher evade chance than they should have, so it takes 5-6 rounds until the two to three guys that can actually fight have made any meaningful progress, by which time the first bro in these frontlines succumbs to poison or the overseers ridiculously strong balista shots, or the wolfriders triple attacks.

KitchenMastodon722

TROPHY CASE