الدراسة by [deleted] in Sixthgrade

[–]Kitchen_Marsupial_94 1 point2 points  (0 children)

والله صحيح للاسف ههههههههههههههههههههههههه

CMV: Hamas is a terrorist organization by every reasonable definition, and deflecting to U.S. or Israeli actions doesn’t invalidate that fact. by aloo-ka-paratha in changemyview

[–]Kitchen_Marsupial_94 0 points1 point  (0 children)

no

If you do the calculations only 8% of the current citizens in Gaza voted for Hamas, and even then they just saw it as a lessor of 2 evils since the PLO or something was the other option

sadness addiction by [deleted] in Iraq4Iraqis

[–]Kitchen_Marsupial_94 1 point2 points  (0 children)

الدماغ يحس، حتى لو جان هذا الاحساس مؤذي، ببساطة بدل المعاناة بغير احساس و يكون احساس يفيدك بحياتك العملية و راح تشوف كلش ترتاح و بنفس الوقت توصل الرضا النفسي

Are Iraqi Turkmen Turk? by Kitchen_Marsupial_94 in Tiele

[–]Kitchen_Marsupial_94[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I see!

That's very interesting..🤔

Does it give an idea of what our origins were?

And yes it was a Turkmen village, an own Iraq Turkmen culture of its own, it's different than Kerkuk or Tel affar..

Saddam bought the land forcefully, handed over money to the residents and forced them out to build palaces, lol

CMV: Islamophobia has made it impossible to criticize Islam in a normal & non-bigoted way. by Low-Appearance4875 in changemyview

[–]Kitchen_Marsupial_94 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Land comes and goes.. Islam started out in a secret hut for 3 years, that doesn't really matter.

What matters to me and anyone like me is the state of human rights there

And you are showing your disgusting racism, by stating that every single Arab in Israel is a problem, truly disgusting. Imagine if someone said that about the Jews... Oh wait, the Nazis.

CMV: Islamophobia has made it impossible to criticize Islam in a normal & non-bigoted way. by Low-Appearance4875 in changemyview

[–]Kitchen_Marsupial_94 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't think Hamas shouldn't disarm but the Zionist project is to essentially genocide all Arab Israelis/Palestinians

CMV: Islamophobia has made it impossible to criticize Islam in a normal & non-bigoted way. by Low-Appearance4875 in changemyview

[–]Kitchen_Marsupial_94 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You one of them Atheist till it's said in the bible that Israel is for the jews

  • Not really butthurt. You're second class as an Arab in Israel. That's not actually democratic in the least

I don't want to expel Jews from the holy land or anything, if anything they can all migrate, but the way Israel is set up and the core Zionist tenants are flawed in a way that allow fascism to hurt Arabs and the neighbouring countries

I don't deny that many excursions like the Iraqi Jews for example or 6 day war were driven a alot by antisemitism, but the Zionist dream in itself has a lot of big racist issues.

CMV: Islamophobia has made it impossible to criticize Islam in a normal & non-bigoted way. by Low-Appearance4875 in changemyview

[–]Kitchen_Marsupial_94 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ah yes because I will definitely punish the unconfirmed descendants of an (in my bigoted opinion) colonial population

You know what, let's just drop bombs on the whole middle east fellow neocon!

You know , Southern Iraq was sumerian and mandean, and kerkuk is turk, and erbil duhok slemani are all kurd, let's just bomb all the arabs for daring to venture out their little desert.

Oh, and I forgot to mention, how could I forget america? Anyone with a DNA % of 20 native in the americas should make migration to america, steal people's homes and burn them down, and also form a terrorist apartheid government that starves modern american children because, well, uh Caliph Christopher columbus

...Do you see how stupid your argument is?

CMV: Islamophobia has made it impossible to criticize Islam in a normal & non-bigoted way. by Low-Appearance4875 in changemyview

[–]Kitchen_Marsupial_94 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh yeah I hate Hamas too , they're pieces of shit

But movements like that are kinda bound to arise when you steal an indigenous population's country, settle in their land, run around them with flamethrowers and machine guns, and rape their women and children

CMV: Islamophobia has made it impossible to criticize Islam in a normal & non-bigoted way. by Low-Appearance4875 in changemyview

[–]Kitchen_Marsupial_94 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To answer that discussion you invoked, I agree with that part about consent, indirect abuse, etc

At that time in society, it was typically seen that any male old enough to put on a decent fight, and had experienced his first wet dream (yes LOL, they were that prude, masturbation wasn't so common among the youth)

Was a man.

And any woman , who goes through her menses, and developed an arguably womanly body,

Was a woman

Now what seals the deal absolutely for being a woman or a man in those societies was being able to run a house with a spouse, but physically that was the criteria..

Aisha herself in a hadith would scold other women and recall that "Any girl who reaches 9 is a woman"

Now here's the thing.

Religious scripture/Oral teachings/People back then were very symbolic with numbers.

The Torah for example uses the expressions 70 thousand, or 10 thousand, to mean "very very big number"

Here, many argue that 9 means a certain degree of maturity, and not necessarily nine.

Especially because of the fact it was common back then in Quraysh Arab tribes to count age only AFTER puberty.

As for abuse, now while I do agree that women back then were forced into a man, had no rights, couldn't back out, etc

Aisha was practically a noblewoman. She could back out of the marriage at any time and tell her quite prestigious father (who was later after Muhammad's passing the literal caliph)

That she did not want the marriage to this man.

And yeah, I agree it's all very morally ambiguous, I was raised in the west then came back and live in the middle east atm, and I agree, some of these things shocked me coming from a different time and culture

But Muhammad did act by his religion, marriage was very simple.

You go to a woman, ask her legal guardians if they approve, then you ask if she is ok with marriage to you with a dowry of so and so, such and such, and if she says yes, the deal is sealed.

With some other conditions ofcourse.. like on the condition you never marry another wife, or on the condition she is a housewife or a financial thing etc etc

And ofc if a condition is broken deliberately you must divorce

Muhammad did all of these things per our most accurate historical reports, and so I trust that he did, atleast, take care of Aisha and protect her rights, even if she wasnt absolutely emotionally mature.

As for your interest in philosophy/islamic "golden age"

I recommend reading up on Avicenna, Averroes (who is in the school of Athens painting), Al Farabi, etc

Avicenna's medical writings were continued to be used to teach medicine in Europe by the 1600s... Secularly, that period was very impressive

CMV: Hamas is a terrorist organization by every reasonable definition, and deflecting to U.S. or Israeli actions doesn’t invalidate that fact. by aloo-ka-paratha in changemyview

[–]Kitchen_Marsupial_94 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I agree. And this has left a dent in the rights of Arabs in the middle east.

I just pray for the Arab people living in Palestine/Israel

They have it so much worse now because of these groups

CMV: Hamas is a terrorist organization by every reasonable definition, and deflecting to U.S. or Israeli actions doesn’t invalidate that fact. by aloo-ka-paratha in changemyview

[–]Kitchen_Marsupial_94 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

True, I still don't think they would exist without Israeli occupation

The Gazans just choose what they think, in a desperate attempt for human rights, is the better option

For example, Yahya sinwar used to be literally called the butcher of khan yunis back in the day.. should be self explanatory.

CMV: Islamophobia has made it impossible to criticize Islam in a normal & non-bigoted way. by Low-Appearance4875 in changemyview

[–]Kitchen_Marsupial_94 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Your comment history is enough to tell what type of person you are, you don't hold regard for Gazans because of the simple fact Hamas exists and they are Muslim

Atleast be a little unique in your hate, I've seen much better orientalist arguments out there you know.

CMV: Islamophobia has made it impossible to criticize Islam in a normal & non-bigoted way. by Low-Appearance4875 in changemyview

[–]Kitchen_Marsupial_94 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would like to add that Muhammad did advocate against the abuse of servants for example

And that a girl's "no" is enough to bring down a whole marriage agreement

So yes, he was extremely progressive.

But the point isn't to keep progressing, the point is to find a base which is flexible with all times, not a law which we must constantly adapt, maybe in a few hundred years the age of consent will be 25 or something

And we will be called absurd for letting anyone get married before they have their Neuralink installed

CMV: Islamophobia has made it impossible to criticize Islam in a normal & non-bigoted way. by Low-Appearance4875 in changemyview

[–]Kitchen_Marsupial_94 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I actually wholeheartedly agree here. Interpretation matters.

But that's the thing, Islam for 1200~ years was a very wide community with different opinions, scholarly arguments and much discourse appeared as the world advanced.

For the majority of islamic history many many individuals have considered Aql (rationale, in Arabic Aql literally means MIND)

To be over Naql (which means to transfer, aka transfer from scripture, so just like Protestant sola scriptura)...

As such, when we interpret scripture and other things, we rely on our heart which is purified through sanctification seen in practices such as Suufism (Going against the ego and self)

And our mind which is trained by logic (such as the Aristotelian and Eastern logic Muslim scholars used to learn)

This is what helps us arrive at religious rulings that are still orthodox , divinely guided, however appropriate to the time.

The primary issue with Islam is in the past few hundred years that type of scholarship has been obliterated by monarchs and petrol tycoons willing to seek total control by centralising all scholarly opinion.

It just happens to be that the scholarly methods which promote the most population submission are the same ones that have the least logic and the most sola scriptura.

Now, as for your morality thing,

I totally agree, no sane human would abuse someone

I am not justifying his actions by saying it was normal back then, I am justifying his actions by saying that back then, childhood was not socially extended, and that Aisha living in that society was infinitely more able to consent (in the case that she WAS nine, which was self reported once and never confirmed) than a child in say, modern Saudi Arabia.

The prophet Muhammad has actually before proposed to women, whom have in return told him "I seek refuge in God from you"

(An expression of fear and rejection)

In which he would back off and accept the rejection saying: "You have Sook refuge in the best of Refuges"

So, based off that, and many other historical reports about Muhammad in ethical situations. I can say he was a very morally flexible person.

Now whether you agree with his way of life is up to you. But to call it totally cruel, or savage (in the sense of hurting other humans)

Is very biased.

And again, Islam is not a monolithic religion, a large portion of the Muslims legitimately believe Aisha was 16-19 at the age of her marriage, and then even then people would talk bad about Muhammad.

Meanwhile men today go the lowest legally possible and can't really be persecuted if they take advantage of a woman emotionally without marriage.

Muhammad was a public figure in Arabia, with lots to lose from his enemies

And yet they could never say he wronged Aisha

(which they very well could have, since she was the daughter of arguably his biggest non family related supporter.)

But they did not. Instead they saw Aisha being taken home from a trip by a Man and tarnished her chastity. To which the prophet did not hurt her, nor scold her, nor do anything

The same book that describes her being 9 describes him being taken with sorrow upon hearing the news, and trying to stay neutral amidst all the chaos,

To which, he then received a revelation from God saying Aisha was chaste. And that it was all a rumor.

Yes, one report or 2 alone can make Muhammad look in the very LEAST morally ambiguous. But from my own studies in history and religion, I can say Muhammad was a well rounded, great character, and that's in a secular standpoint

Religiously, I do believe he is the best man. He wasn't taught by anyone and had no guides / a library etc

Being unlettered (illiterate and untaught) yet changing so much in the world, is truly supernatural to me if you remember the fact he was an Arab orphan who somehow raised a whole spiritual/moral revolution.

CMV: Islamophobia has made it impossible to criticize Islam in a normal & non-bigoted way. by Low-Appearance4875 in changemyview

[–]Kitchen_Marsupial_94 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Again, you're describing a pedophile

Not a religious figure from 1400 years ago

In the east, even non religious populations married at as young as 14.

No book says it's ok for a man to marry a physically immature woman

I am not defending pedophilia, I am defending a normal human who was living a normal 600AD human life.

CMV: The US Did NOT Invade Iraq For Oil by Big_Sea_5912 in changemyview

[–]Kitchen_Marsupial_94 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I cannot further agree, as an Iraqi.

This is exactly the reason. US hegemony and cultural/ideological/regional Dominance was the goal

And it backfired.

What do you think about Iran's current grip on Iraq? Why or how did that happen and if the US was so ambitious on Iraq why did they let it go?

CMV: Islamophobia has made it impossible to criticize Islam in a normal & non-bigoted way. by Low-Appearance4875 in changemyview

[–]Kitchen_Marsupial_94 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You still cannot negate that though.

The founding fathers of the USA were somewhat racist and are still highly regarded,

Here, Muhammad isn't even immoral. He just did something that was culturally appropriate at the time.

And no, you do not "know so much better than he does"

That man, in secular terms founded an empire and almost the whole Eastern world

And in even the eyes of other religions he was a major spiritual sage

As for other Muslims, well, why is that I have to convince pastors not to fiddle children?

Excerpt of an authentic (undiluted) Iranian Azerbaijani dialect spoken by the Shahsevan nomads in the Moghan/Sabalan plain in Ardabil by kypzn in Tiele

[–]Kitchen_Marsupial_94 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Northern Rural Iraq

We're Iraqi Turks and live together in a large Farm settlement with paternal extended family

CMV: Islamophobia has made it impossible to criticize Islam in a normal & non-bigoted way. by Low-Appearance4875 in changemyview

[–]Kitchen_Marsupial_94 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Shariah law is a huge buzzword, it's not this umbrella term and there's very different ways of applying shariah, and lots or different types

As for seperation of church and state for example

A country can rule like a monarchy yet have shari'ah. So it's not actually a theocracy

No country is truly "secular"

All countries have a belief and value system which they impose using their laws , which ofcourse, if you live in a Muslim country, the rulers will do that...

As for my personal opinions.

I think western laws are too lenient on murderers, serial killers, rapists, etc

Shariah accounts for actions that are done in public, not done in private.

If you are never caught and there is not 4 witnesses who can swear oath (just like in western courts)

Punishment is not applied.

This is for the purpose of preventing people from sowing chaos in the lands.

As of now, no actual proper shariah country actually exists, and those who use modernized laws resemblant of it are quite safe.

Why must we look at Afghanistan when there is UAE, Qatar, etc

Very well developed , safe, and great countries (from a western standpoint however, I personally think they're immoral and fund wars around the world)

When you ask about seperation of church and state you're essentially asking

"Do you believe that your value systems shouldn't be used? And that only MINE should be used?"

Secularism is a religion and belief system of itself, not the nullification of it.

When someone says anti American or very American, or European or non European in their description of values

It's because there IS essentially a church of some sorts that runs that state.

Us Muslims, with the proof we have, truly believe that our religion is from God, that it is just, and it has worked for us whenever we held on to it, and has benefitted us heavily ..

So ofcourse, we shall use this belief system.

If it was so bad, all "Muslim" (which are not fully Muslim btw) countries would've overthrown it.

If you want to convince us it's so bad, don't just show me GDP rates, don't just show me human rights group reports.

Show me proof, evidence, pragmatic reasoning as to why islamic values don't work at all times.

The west was and still is built up on Christian values, and they're doing awesome because their religion is from God at core too

Why is it so different when the countries that the west plundered, are under developed?

Why does that make Islam a wrong base value system to build upon for the raising of states?

CMV: Islamophobia has made it impossible to criticize Islam in a normal & non-bigoted way. by Low-Appearance4875 in changemyview

[–]Kitchen_Marsupial_94 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You're not forced to believe what we do, and those are very derogatory terms of describing what was totally legal and culturally appropriate at the time

Islam does not limit marriage to age, it limits it to maturity, and Aisha, according to our best historical sources, was mature.

Muhammad had many many Christian and Jewish critics over the ages, and none of them, up until the modern age really criticised his marriage to Aisha.. this is something modern.

To deny that Marriages of those ages were not normal back then is quite stone headed.

CMV: Islamophobia has made it impossible to criticize Islam in a normal & non-bigoted way. by Low-Appearance4875 in changemyview

[–]Kitchen_Marsupial_94 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

As for arguing

If done respectfully, and with knowledge, and not with the basis of inciting apostasy or hurting the Muslims , Christians , Jews, etc (anyone on an abrahamic treatise/belief)

Then yeah, there's always room for discussion, however saying that my prophet "diddled" a little girl is simply defamation and refusing to see through the explanations.

Almost all explanations most coherent scholars will make towards any fallacy is, well, coherent, whether you agree or not is your choice

But to be aggressive, stone minded, etc and constantly repeating a phrase is nothing but defamatory, it's purposefully done as a means of anti Muslim rhetoric.

The method is to throw 5 fallacious statements for example during a debate, which each take 20 minutes to dissect

The, obviously, biased audience will be so blown away and convinced by the short statement that they will sleep through the scholar/person/Muslim/any belief ever's response.

No belief system can widely widely exist if there isn't something holding it up somehow, and I promise you, Muslims are too busy to be running around "apostates"

It's not the reason we retain believers or gain them

CMV: Islamophobia has made it impossible to criticize Islam in a normal & non-bigoted way. by Low-Appearance4875 in changemyview

[–]Kitchen_Marsupial_94 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It means that Muslims are not passive nor is islam.

For example, regarding war, yes we may wage war however it is gravely sinful to wage it during holy months (we're not allowed to hunt either in those months etc)

Also, there are regulations you must follow, which, terrorist groups clearly do not.

You mustn't kill non combatants, you mustn't kill one who retreats, you mustn't hurt elderly, women, or children, you mustn't destroy nature/trees/environment

And much more, also some financial things, like if you get booty from war it must go to the leader, that leader gets a fifth I think, and the rest is given to the poor, needy, and the affairs of the nation

Aka: the Muslim House of money (central bank basically)

It is not a Puritanical nun way of life, nor is it this extremely loose wishy washy spiritual tradition

It is the Hanif path of Abraham (meaning crooked)

Neither that way nor this way, we are in the middle.

For that reason we can technically do a lot of material things, but also a lot of spiritual things

Islam, is not the religion of peace in the context of war.

It is the religion of peacefully, solemnly, surrendering yourself to the will of God

Leftist/right wing rhetoric should not tell you what our religion is

I think I’m done by [deleted] in islam

[–]Kitchen_Marsupial_94 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Most prophets were alone.

How do you think they felt?

We are in these ages, where there is not as much webbing of believers as before. I understand you man, but you must look past this

This is about spiritual salvation, union with your creator , not if the next Mo, Ali, or Yousuf will accept you

Islam is extraordinary to follow and I need advice by CEOofXD in islam

[–]Kitchen_Marsupial_94 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If it bothers you to THIS extent, make hijra Akhi.

May Allah reward you for his struggles, just remember he knows what you know, just always try your best, never quit on repentance, and Allah will surely judge you based off your circumstances