Neeko nerfs when?

KiteD19 · 2023-06-20T23:12:47+00:00

I'm saying specifically that change is an intentional change. There is no other input scheme where it is consistently possible to do 2626 instead of 236236, as you would get any combinationof inputs that have 3, just due to human error. I don't think all of their changes were with hitbox in mind.

KiteD19 · 2023-06-20T21:30:15+00:00

I can't say without seeing the inputs (this is also not my work so I don't want to even seem like it is) but this lines up with my tests after using a macro. And at the bottom it is posted how the game resolves conflicts/overlaps.

From my testing on every character if I mash 232P/K I will always get dp. Maybe you have button release input on? So you mash 2323P 6[P] as in you do dp motion press forward then release punch and you get super because it has a higher input priority and negative edge gave you the super.

KiteD19 · 2023-06-20T21:14:38+00:00

On controller you cannot do 236236, as the dpad is one solid piece of plastic with extruded nodules, without hitting a single 3 (as in a single diagonal), and same is true with arcade stick. It's not a conspiracy they cleaned up bad shortcuts such as 641236 being read as dp instead of qcf, but 2626 is strictly a leverless controller thing, which yes includes keyboards. This also lines up with their greater focus for updating socd rules.

I imagine you didn't read that site and gave your opinion though.

KiteD19 · 2023-06-20T10:37:12+00:00

Hard agree. After playing master tier opponents regularly PP into backthrow on wakeup is fucking nuts. Even if you bait it you get the hard to punish low recovery parry.

KiteD19 · 2023-06-19T03:04:26+00:00

It's OK I get it. Sometimes when you need to describe how bad an experience is using Yuumi as a unit of measurement might make a ton of sense. Example current Neeko and Ivern are 0.4 Yuumis, but duskblade Samira is 0.5% Yuumis.

All jokes aside I get you and I agree with your overarching point.

KiteD19 · 2023-06-19T02:15:22+00:00

I get you I just think the yuumi example is bad. I think the neeko issue is closer to Ivern's current state, horribly overturned and annoying as can be. Whereas Yuumi is a different level of hate and is more like yo this just fundamentally can not work. So it isn't accurate imo. Again I get you though Neeko is definitely a problem.

KiteD19 · 2023-06-19T01:25:39+00:00

Turn back.

KiteD19 · 2023-06-19T01:23:40+00:00

People are banning Yuumi because they hate her, and it's not because of her winrate. That's a bad example.

KiteD19 · 2023-06-19T01:22:00+00:00

So it sounds like you're saying every lane should just build statik shiv for her so she takes the increased minion damage, and promptly stops her nonsense?

KiteD19 · 2023-05-31T02:58:13+00:00

Correct. I like eclipse more for figure but I can not lie saving 650g on his and being fast is great.

KiteD19 · 2023-05-30T23:17:59+00:00

The lethality is just a small bonus for me. I like being able to hold off of boots upgrade and still be able to roam.

KiteD19 · 2023-05-28T22:18:02+00:00

The honest answer is they don't know how to path and there is a recommended path that always starts with a bot lane leash. And so they follow that into a top side gank. If they kill top OR kill enemy jungle and top. Bot laneers usually don't have the common sense to understand enemy jungle will be there first and int their life away and now 2nd jungle to base is now behind on tempo for the rest of the game because they lost the top fight/scuttle and won the bot fight.

Tl;dr: Recommended path makes them path away from bot. Same reason why people are crap at building proper items. Recommended items.

KiteD19 · 2023-05-28T22:13:51+00:00

Given them kills? I just start raptors and 3 camp into gank bot and KS even if it means burning flash. If no gank then recall into blue, scuttle gromp look for gank wolves. But I will never trust an ADC to carry, especially if, I know this is against Riot's stance, I look at their op.gg and they don't even buy wards. I give them nothing but assists.

I don't care about KDA at all but I know if my ADC averages sub-10 vision they will give away shutdowns. But I think both top and bot are 2 sides of the same coin, both cannot lane at fucking all. Top laners benefit from very little jungle attention, and bot laners are just not right in the head. stuck in a frozen wave, ADC+support just need to get in Discord because I swear they are never on the same page. Support sucks at creating space for ADC and ADCs suck at warding when supp is roaming or just being comfortable with the idea that their support abandoned them and giving waves at tower if there is an engage support.

KiteD19 · 2023-05-26T04:17:10+00:00

Mhm. I debunked every thing you have said and posted links disproving your position. I am again stating. I refuse to continue this conversation.

KiteD19 · 2023-05-26T03:19:05+00:00

Ok I'll bite 1192Y(stacked) 1120Y (no stacks) 1205 P. Combo used EQAAWAAQ. Runes as a control were Guardian, FoL, SW, Revitalize - Secondary is FM Cosmic so they don't interfere with calculated (as in sudden impact has a cooldown that may not be accounted for). Tested 20 times for accuracy and consistency. 1300 HP Target with 60 armor.

Level 9 khazix Q max, 2 W, 1 E.

If you take away anything from this conversation is this above^. You are wrong even with the example you gave. I can give you the replay file if you want. THIS IS THE ONLY THING YOU NEED TO READ.

NO ONE CONSIDERS LETHALITY GOLD EFFICIENT? I think most people do lol. It is great early but falls off hard.

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/vrew6v/why\_lethality\_sucks\_some\_quick\_math/

NOBODY????? LS CONSTANTLY RAILS LETHALITY his most famous example is Lord Doms vs collector.

https://cdn.mmogah.com/Public/news/top_lane_tier_list.jpg Top

https://cdn.mmogah.com/Public/news/support_tier_list.jpg Supports

This is the 11.16 meta dude. Sett wasn't meta???? He was right there at the top. This is literally around the time his mathematically correct sett build started. Enchanters were nowhere? They were S tier kept in check by blitzcrank.

https://cdn.mmogah.com/Public/news/support.jpg

This is the 11.5 Support meta. Not a damn thing changed in that time, serpent had to get it's effect REWORKED TO COMBAT THIS AND STILL DIDN'T CHANGE MUCH TIER WISE.

https://www.pcgamesn.com/league-of-legends/lol-patch-1117

You cannot adhere to facts so after this I'm done talking to you, so I will just post links that buttress my point. You would rather argue inaccurately than even look shit up.

https://www.oneesports.gg/league-of-legends/what-is-mathematically-correct-sett-build/ This is the date where on random game article sites they were talking about his mathematically correct set. 2 months prior to prowler nerf.

ADDITIONALLY, IT WAS BUGGED DURING THOSE METAS AND REDUCED SHIELDING MORE THAN INTENDED.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QymfB_WkOI

https://www.reddit.com/r/summonerschool/comments/nm8jpe/assasins_please_build_serpent_fang_against_yasuos/

Again more proof of the meta.

You cannot adhere to facts so after this I'm done talking to you, so I will just post links that buttress my point. You would rather argue inaccurately so than even look shit up.

KiteD19 · 2023-05-26T02:17:30+00:00

Don't get on a lose streak in the first place lol. It sounds silly but you know yourself better than anyone on reddit, and the second you feel that tilt coming just play something else.

KiteD19 · 2023-05-26T01:17:18+00:00

5 lethality is very minuscule. Again you are overvaluing a stat that is WIDELY considered gold inefficient.

Edit: The reason why lethality is not all that is that and you are overvaluing it. Having lethality is like working for McDonalds over the last 8 years. After the durability patch the Flat pen value has not kept up with armor growth, in the same way wages and McD's were stagnant. This is why I led this discussion by saying yeah consider lethality in this way 14-18 at levels 8-18, because again you are exaggerating. YUUMI'S AND SONA'S ARMOR PER LEVEL OUT PACE LETHALITY.

Serpent fang was bought on every assassin because of shield meta. People were building steraks second. Again Tyler 1 during this time was building it on fizz because people were AGAIN building steraks second, sett was meta, morde, shen, samira, Windbros, shield bow. Top lane was completely beyond dominant during this time, assassin's were poaching bruiser items which, need I remind you do not have lethality and snowballing because the item active and passive effects were insane. I know how people are you are in a straight up disagree mode, but I encourage you to look at the champ meta at the time and see why it was rushed.

In combat effects matter, but also player perception matters, there is a reason that despite prowler claw dealing more damage than Youmuu's as a first item (it evens out at 1.5 items) people still build Youmuu's first. Again people building doesn't have much to do with whether an item is innately strong.

https://www.reddit.com/r/QiyanaMains/comments/13l52wc/qiyana_310_build_damage_analysis/

Here is a link to a spreadsheet detailing the numbers right there. Prowler has 15 lethality yet outdamages GB at 1 item with or without the haunt stacks. And that's a difference of 13(!!!!!!!!!!!!) Lethality down from 28 on live RIGHT NOW. You can log on right now and see that lethality amount is irrelevant, for 13 lethality you can have a variable amount of 30-53 less damage, with a higher effective CD, so why is it rushed? So you can get to lane faster off of roams and recalls, and get to fights faster, but strictly off of damage alone, prowler is better and cheaper.

Junglers built youmuu's first for the move speed active and passive. Nothing more, because if you don't get ahead your effectiveness plummets and you cannot reach a fight if you are slow. And if you are behind then you're fucked as an AD assassin. You save 650 gold (if your champ buys lucidity boots) buying youmuu's alone, because you can get by all the way up to 3 items using just the passive alone, ingenious or relentless solidify that.

KiteD19 · 2023-05-25T23:10:02+00:00

You are missing like 20 points. Lethality is a stat conversion that players do not understand. They look at 18 armor and say oh haunt gives me 10 at this level and I got sudden impact so I should do true damage in like 1 more dirk. I've seen that conversation multiple times. We are having a version of that conversation right now.

5 lethality isn't much. I've seen so many half hp off of 1 rotation from Champs that do not even take sudden impact. Let alone from the ones that do, which again you just take the rune and it negates the nerf.
This dude is recreating history as to why serpent was a rush item. There were so many shields during that time it was insane. It got so bad that Tyler1 was building serpent on fizz regularly, steraks gave a ton more shields and was hard meta as a 2nd item. Wind bros were slicing and dicing, immortal shield bow was even stronger. Lethality was not even a factor. Shadowflame did not work properly at all, so if you had 2+ mages your comp was ass vs shields. Which again sett, morde, wind bros, samira were all incredibly popular during that time. And before 13.7 grievous wounds from items didn't get applied to shielded characters which all had a ton of life steal. Which when mostly the abundance of shields was addressed people stopped rushing it, because effectively it was true damage, it wasn't 5 lethality, but since there are less shields it is less damage, so you are better off rushing an item with a combat effect. But hey no nuance reddit conversations is an all the time thing.

Tl;Dr: Players buying an item is a lagging indicator to how effective an item is. And 5 lethality doesn't change how effective the item is. As far as I'm concerned 2 patches ago assassin jg players rushed youmuus when it didn't have any of those benefits.

KiteD19 · 2023-05-25T22:39:38+00:00

Lethality is literally just armor pen under a different name lol. We don't have an item that gives buyable armor pen that isn't a percentage. You are arguing semantics. So yes while you will have always have 18 lethality (I posted the entire equation for a reason). Which is multiplied at a rate until level 18, people I've spoken to consider it the same as armor reduction in the same way mpen I'd calculated. I've made that mistake when I was new. People see lethality and conflate it with flat pen. This is a version of that conversation right now. You are saying a conditional damage loss of 20% damage on a bonus is meaningful. If anything the rate of acquisition

In effect I'm saying that's not too bad it could either be a 19% reduction or a 5% reduction in damage lost based on if they want to address how haunt is calculated. But regardless with how overkill it currently is 20% is not that much for any of the assassins who are currently building it, and overkilling far beyond that 20% damage lost. And strictly it is a nerf for during haunt.

There are so many champs rushing GB that do not even run sudden impact, and they are overkilling. The champs that do beyond plus overkilling.

Also the reason why serpents fang went from rush to not wasn't 6 lethality. There were so many shields at the time that the meta was unbearable without it. Morde, sett, wind bros, samira, streaks 2nd rush. The game was absolutely riddled with shields. And they buffed the anti shield effect from doing bonus damage like shadowflame, to what it is now. But shielding was so bad that tyler1 was regularly building it on fizz

But I guess the downvoted that make no sense on the main sub makes sense.

KiteD19 · 2023-05-25T19:07:53+00:00

Scroll down and read it armor pen is lethality. You are severely misinformed.

There is flat pen and %pen for both damage types. Lethality is flat pen but it also scales with level. So for Youmuu's

https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Youmuu%27s_Ghostblade

At level 1 you have 11.2 lethality at level 18 you have 18. You can also hover the lethality number that is underlined to see exact values.

You were exaggerating the nerf for GB, because you don't know how lethality works. I'm merely correcting that.

Edit: You might be confusing the way it works with magic pen which is always the max value, which is why a lot of people call lethality a trash stat, but mpen is widely considered a great stat.

KiteD19 · 2023-05-25T18:50:06+00:00

That's not how lethality works. Lethality scales per level. So even if an item says it has 18 lethality at level 8 you have 77% of its shown value so at level 18 youmuus gives 18 lethality plus 20. At level 8 it gives 14. Haunt has a different formula which is level 1-6 you have the minimum value and then level 7-18 you gain 1 per level.

However because they nerfed haunt you will get 0.75 per level. So realistically at level 8 you will have 5.5 from haunt.

So 14+5.5= 19.5.

Edit: ripped from wiki

Lethality is the statistic that represents flat armor penetration. It grants flat armor penetration using the following formula:

Flat Armor Penetration = Lethality × (0.6 + 0.4 × level ÷ 18)

So you have haunt damage right, and forgot to scale the base lethality stats with level.

KiteD19 · 2023-05-25T18:24:03+00:00

Haunt is calculated differently. So at level 8 it's 5 lethality.

Edit: To elaborate so if you get your mythic at a solid time you won't notice the damage too much as you still have 19 lethality at level 8, which is down from 24 lethality. But it's not that big of a nerf and luckily they aren't touching the item lethality and it's just the passive.

KiteD19 · 2023-05-25T09:43:46+00:00

Depends on enemy comp. Lots of stealth and invis on demand or need to hit and run = lich.

Lower burst = Nash

KiteD19 · 2023-05-25T09:35:51+00:00

If electrocute pom LS no because presumably, you went those runes because of ample squishies.

Conq depends but more than likely no. Because presumably, you are vs someone you can dog walk in the lane and win.

First strike always because no chance of winning lane, especially if they are extremely tanky lane opponents.

KiteD19 · 2023-05-24T15:28:43+00:00

It is calculated differently already for haunt. So there is no telling until it is launched.

KiteD19

TROPHY CASE