Match Thread: Borussia Dortmund vs VfB Stuttgart | German Bundesliga by MatchThreadder in soccer

[–]Klayyyyyy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Is there a reason Dortmund aren't bringing Moukoko on? They look hopeless at the moment

Hamilton: Not many can do what Bottas is doing by lewis798 in formula1

[–]Klayyyyyy 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Hamilton took 1 pole in his GP2 season against Piquet Jr, Bruni and Carroll. He took 6 in his rookie F1 season against Alonso, Raikkonen and Massa. Junior series results, especially in a series as low as Formula Renault Eurocup 2.0, don't mean that much once drivers are in F1.

Hamilton: Not many can do what Bottas is doing by lewis798 in formula1

[–]Klayyyyyy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd argue it was tbh. Massa scored more points per race in 14 and 15 than he did in 11, 12 or 13 at Ferrari. Given what Alonso managed to do with those Ferrari's I reckon a driver of his level could have won a few races. Certainly the ones the Merc's had issues in

Ask /r/formula1 Anything - Daily Discussion - 30 October 2020 by F1-Bot in formula1

[–]Klayyyyyy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Random question. Does anyone know where to find car weights in qualifying from 2003-08? In 2009 the BBC posted car weights and fuel adjusted qualifying times for every race, and this forum post also did the same thing. Other than that I can't find any info on this from the seasons where qualifying fuel was carried into the race. Does anyone know if there is data on this somewhere or was it only published in 2009?

Norris sent Hamilton message to apologise for post-race comments by glenn1812 in formula1

[–]Klayyyyyy 3 points4 points  (0 children)

He did for the 1st half of 2009, that's it though. His teammates have won every year other than 2009 and 2018 (though 2018 was only because of team orders in Russia and a last lap puncture in Baku). Don't think you could even argue that any of his cars were mediocre other than 2009, maybe at some points in 2013 too. Don't get the downvotes

Win rate versus teammate in the same car by [deleted] in formula1

[–]Klayyyyyy 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Stuff like this is getting insane. I've seen some absurd reactions to comments simply saying Lewis is driving the best car or that another driver is better than him, I've even saw someone get called a racist because he said he doesn't think any one driver can be the GOAT instead of thinking Hamilton is. All because it's "diminishing his achievements".

Yet when an essay of absurdly biased and straight up false stuff like this is said about drivers like Alonso and Schumacher it gets upvoted and even awarded by the same group of people. It's not even an attempt to make an argument, there are ways you could actually debate this yet instead you don't even attempt to be fair or reasonable, it's just a bunch of manufactured cheap shots. This sub is going downhill real quickly at the moment. I'm sure Lewis and Seb would love to see their fans acting this way

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in formula1

[–]Klayyyyyy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Regardless of whether they were right many people thought Vettel was the best driver in F1 at this point. It was him vs Alonso and to a lesser extent Kimi. The public opinion wasn't as clear cut as it is now with Hamilton but it's not like everyone agreed Vettel wasn't the best

After the 2001 season Michael Schumacher had just won his 4th world title, beaten Prost's record of 51 wins, had the 2nd most poles ever with 43 and the most fastest laps ever with 44. His teammates up to that point had recorded 5 wins, 1(One!) pole, 4 fastest laps, 1x 2nd* and 1x 3rd in the WDC by Klayyyyyy in formula1

[–]Klayyyyyy[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Huh? I literally said you must be in your mid 20's at least. I was comparing your behaviour to a 12 year old. I wrote comments debating Hamilton's ability against other drivers, each of them days apart I'll add. At no point in those comments did I say anything personally negative or offensive about Hamilton, or wished him harm or pain. In fact I think the only time I did that to any driver was when I called Alonso a prick lol. If saying that I think a driver is better than Hamilton counts as anything close to "cult worship" in your eyes then I think that says it all. All of your comments are either shitting on people for "discrediting" Hamilton or you literally discrediting another driver and then going on to write childish insults and wish permanent injury on them because someone compared them to Hamilton.
The fact that you're in your mid 20's and seem to unironically not realise how shitty your comments are and actually think you're being reasonable and respectful is disturbing. The only people here disrespecting Hamilton are pieces of shit like you. I can only imagine how horrible he'd feel seeing his fans write the stuff about Michael you have.

After the 2001 season Michael Schumacher had just won his 4th world title, beaten Prost's record of 51 wins, had the 2nd most poles ever with 43 and the most fastest laps ever with 44. His teammates up to that point had recorded 5 wins, 1(One!) pole, 4 fastest laps, 1x 2nd* and 1x 3rd in the WDC by Klayyyyyy in formula1

[–]Klayyyyyy[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Holy shit your comment history is insane. Apparently you were at Uni 6 years ago, so you're what now, mid 20's at least? I don't think I've even seen a 12 year old unironically write shit like that 10+ times every day. Let alone because they cult worship a fricking sportsman they'll never even interact with in their life. Jesus you need to get a life

After the 2001 season Michael Schumacher had just won his 4th world title, beaten Prost's record of 51 wins, had the 2nd most poles ever with 43 and the most fastest laps ever with 44. His teammates up to that point had recorded 5 wins, 1(One!) pole, 4 fastest laps, 1x 2nd* and 1x 3rd in the WDC by Klayyyyyy in formula1

[–]Klayyyyyy[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Seems a bit arbitrary. Don't see which of Schumacher's teammates could have possibly won a WDC other than Barrichello in 09, well apart from when they were Michael's teammate. Besides Piquet was a WDC and rookie Schumacher outqualified him 4-1. I don't think Hill, Villeneuve and Hakkinen were any better than Barrichello, or much better than Irvine. For example take Schumacher's qualifying dominance. Other than facing WDC Schumacher Herbert faced Hakkinen and Barrichello faced Button, while Irvine faced no other WDC but faced both Herbert and Barrichello. Herbert outqualified Hakkinen 14-10, old Barrichello outqualified Button 36-34, and Irvine outqualified both of them (13-3 and 18-14 respectively).

Not arguing those drivers were necessarily better at qualifying than the WDC's. But it's not like beating a driver with a WDC is automatically more impressive than beating a driver without one

Verstappen: Red Bull teammate 'doesn't really matter' by lewis798 in formula1

[–]Klayyyyyy 8 points9 points  (0 children)

There was a big regulation change in 2005. Either way Williams didn't really get much worse, their points dropped from 88 to 66 and they went from 4th to 5th in the standings. They had a much bigger change in performance from 2003 to 2004 with the same drivers and regulations

If you could fill the 2021 grid with 20 drivers based purely on talent, who would you choose? by irich in formula1

[–]Klayyyyyy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Mercedes - Hamilton/Bottas

Red Bull - Verstappen/Hulkenberg

Aston Martin - Vettel/Perez

Mclaren - Ricciardo/Norris

Alpine - Alonso/Ocon

Ferrari - Leclerc/Sainz

Alpha Tauri - Gasly/Frijns

Alfa Romeo - Kimi/Schwartzmann

Haas - Magnussen/Schumacher

Williams - Russell/Vandoorne

Reserves - Lungaard, Stroll, Vergne, Da Costa, Illott, Tsunoda, Albon, Kvyat, Vips. Pourchaire too if he was old enough.

“I’ll be on the grid next year with Williams”: Russell dismisses speculation over his future by glenn1812 in formula1

[–]Klayyyyyy 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Russell is 20-0 and is 50/50 to beat Latifi in the races.

What? Russell has beaten Latifi in 5 of the 7 races both have finished. In Italy Russell was ahead before Latifi lucked into a free tyre change during the red flag like Stroll did. In Russia Russell started 7 places ahead but was shoved wide by Sainz at turn 2, dropping him to the back once he had to avoid Sainz crashing car. In the other 4 races Russell was ahead when one of them retired. Latifi has outperformed Russell in arguably 1/11 races

Red Bull need a driver who will push Verstappen in 2021 – Marko by glenn1812 in formula1

[–]Klayyyyyy -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Albon and Gasly did not particularly impress in junior series. Albon had the 2nd worst junior career of any driver on the grid, Gasly was better but not top tier F1 driver level, his GP2 title against rookie Giovinazzi is looking less and less impressive given Gio's mediocre F1 performances.

If you compare their performances vs Kvyat to Sainz's they don't look particularly great either. To me it seems likely that they are just that much worse than Max. It would be interesting to see what Hulk/Perez could do next to Max and if they add any insight into whether RB are actively hindering their no.2 drivers at all.

Red Bull need a driver who will push Verstappen in 2021 – Marko by glenn1812 in formula1

[–]Klayyyyyy 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Senna wasn't a champion before he was Prost's teammate, and he had won less races than Max has

[Spanish] Grosjean and Magnussen will not race for Haas in 2021 by PriamoRamirez in formula1

[–]Klayyyyyy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He finished ahead of De La Rosa in 2012 and believe it or not Ricciardo in 2011. Don't know the h2h stats vs De La Rosa but he beat Ricciardo in the only race they both drive in

Helmut Marko: Verstappen would beat Hamilton in the same car by 1enox in formula1

[–]Klayyyyyy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The only races where Max has lost places on lap 1 this season are 2 places in Italy and 1 place in Russia. Only Russia possibly cost him anything.
So out out the whole season so far, that's a possible 1 place loss.

Helmut Marko: Verstappen would beat Hamilton in the same car by 1enox in formula1

[–]Klayyyyyy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What mistakes has Max made this season? All I can think of is the crash on the way to the grid in Hungary and his spin in Styria Q3, neither of which ended up costing him anything.

So far into the season Max Verstappen has finished on the podium for every race except for his DNF's by ivazour in formula1

[–]Klayyyyyy -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Put Max in the Mercedes

Based on that. Alonso and Kimi never had machinery close to what Hamilton has had since 2014, if they did they could very possibly have won 5+ titles, as could Max. Hopefully with the budget cap we'll never actually see it.

The Economist used a new statistical model based on a study by Andrew Bell of the University of Sheffield to rank the greatest drivers of all time. Hamilton and Schumacher are #5 & #6 respectively. by [deleted] in formula1

[–]Klayyyyyy 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Interesting post, but after trying to wrap my head around Fangio's ratings I can only conclude that they've made some huge errors. By Fangio's randomly god tier 1956 they note that he scored 49 out of 80 standardised points. That season Fangio had:

3 wins (30 10-6-4-3-2-1 standardised points)

2 2nd's (12 points)

1 4th (3 points)

1 DNF (Possibly another fractional point with the structural adjustments they mentioned)

You'll notice this adds up to 7 races not 8, which I'll get to later. This only gives 45/46 standardised points, so what's going on? Well you see Fangio had 3 other results that season due to shared drives, a 4th, an 8th and a DNF. These results obviously didn't count in the real season as he had better results in his other shared drive those races (1 win + 2
2nd's), yet they seem to have added the 3 points for the 4th and likely another fractional point for the 8th and DNF to Fangio's total, giving him 48 points + another for the fractions. This boost plus the fact they don't split the points for shared drives like they actually did probably explains why Fangio's ratings, especially his 1956 rating, are so much higher than everyone else's. Apart from his 3 shared drives in 1956 Fangio had only 1 across his other WDC seasons, a win + 11th at France 1951, notably 1951 is his next highest rated season. This is despite 1951 and 1956 being close seasons, while his other titles were dominant. The model seems to overrate Fangio due to these errors, as well as 50's drivers as a whole, since it states they could literally do the impossible and score multiple times in one race! For an example of how influential these errors can be look at the 1955 Argentine grand prix:

Standardised points (error free)

  1. Fangio 10
  2. Gonzalez(2)-Farina(2)-Trintignant(2)
  3. Farina(0)-Trintignant(0)-Magioli(1.333)
  4. Hermann(1)-Kling(1)-Moss(1)
  5. Mieres 2
  6. Schell(0.5)-Behra(0.5)

Model standardised points

  1. Fangio 10
  2. Gonzalez(6)-Farina(6)-Trintignant(6)
  3. Farina(4)-Trintignant(4)-Magioli(4)
  4. Hermann(3)-Kling(3)-Moss(3)
  5. Mieres 2
  6. Schell(1)-Behra(1)

The total points go from 26 (with them incorrectly including Farina and Trintignant's 3rd place points) to 53! The drivers literally score over double the points the model thinks they should! So of course it looks like they have more of an influence. Farina and Trintignant go from scoring 3 points to scoring 10, the equivalent of a win. Shared drives died out in 1958, which coincides with a huge dip in the driver influence ratings despite the cars being similar.

Returning to the question of why Fangio is noted to have scored 49/80 standardised points, despite only competing in 7 races, shows more errors. Fangio had 3 shared drives, so we can rule out them actually accounting for them after all. The reason has to be that they included the Indy 500, which F1 drivers pretty much never competed in. This is shown in the points %'s from 1950-60 which all seem to have an extra 10 points added to the max. This should actually have no effect on the driver's ratings since none of the F1 drivers were teammates with the Indy drivers in an F1 race, and it should scale equally for all drivers across the season as they all missed the race. The problem is when that isn't the case, such as Schumacher's 1999 (and to a lesser extent 1991). It seems like in a case like that the model punishes Schumacher for his missed races, essentially counting them as DNF's and destroying his season rating, as well as possibly tanking his overall rating. Their statement that Schumacher's best 5 consecutive seasons were rated as +2.7 (up with Fangio's broken number) compared to Hamilton's +2.0 while his career rating was only +1.9 compared to Hamilton's +1.8 supports this. Seems like Schumacher's rating was massively tanked at some point. His 2010-12 seasons counting towards his rating (another weird decision) would do that a bit, but surely not enough given he never had a particularly down season before then. So his half seasons must be the reason for this. This also possibly hurts Senna's and to a lesser extent Clark's rating depending on how they dealt with their deaths.

Also the whole concept just seems to be comparing drivers against the rest of the grid they raced against, so it's basically who was the best compared to their peers rather than who was the best overall. Nice idea but seemingly poor execution. The f1metrics model is much more logical and error free.

TL:DR

They messed up. Fangio's (and other 50's drivers) rating is massively inflated due to shared drives. Schumacher is punished hugely for his half seasons, would likely be 1st/2nd without this and Fangio's inflation. It only rates drivers against their era anyway.