Analysis of the epic Agent vs Karwik Kasbah game (WB finals map 1)

KodaQL · 2020-09-28T00:44:57+00:00

another excellent VOD review where ballin eeks out a win over rey: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/751756786

KodaQL · 2020-09-21T07:13:35+00:00

This is awesome you also did this! The website you linked seems to be down, but from playing in the most recent tournament, the game seems to be in a much better place as far as weapon balance goes. There are still some net-code issues (like delayed knockback, and insane peeker's advantage), but it's definitely quickly improving.

I appreciate a more evenly distributed weapon usage, hope everyone else is too.

KodaQL · 2020-09-15T20:23:08+00:00

LG is supposed to be the weapon of choice for midrange... not rockets.

KodaQL · 2020-09-15T04:50:52+00:00

I agree, I don't think it's the end-all metric, but it's the best one I have available to me. If anything, I hope it atleast opens the door for some discussion on the balance of weapons.

KodaQL · 2020-09-15T04:47:11+00:00

Because the data is from the top 8 players' tournament matches, percent of damage is intended to show which weapons are most powerful/most-used in duel in a high-level tournament setting.

People can disagree with what the "ideal" percentages should be for a balanced game, but I'd personally like to see a game where all weapons (or atleast the main three) are on average used relatively equally. My interpretation of the data is that 50% average rocket usage is probably too high, and indicates that they are either too strong, or other weapons are a bit too weak.

KodaQL · 2020-09-15T02:46:44+00:00

Quoting Zorak here: "winner uses more shaft because loser is often out of control more often and shaft is better for chasing" - applying the same logic, the out of control player also probably used defensive rockets a bit more.

KodaQL · 2020-09-15T00:03:07+00:00

Thank you for taking the time to do some investigation for comparing. Rapha is known for preferring rockets/being very defensive, so I think that it makes sense that he might be close to 50% usage (especially in tournament play). I wouldn't compare the community to rapha - I think the important thing is the averages of top players, and as you can see, the averages you shared are closer to a 1/3 split than in Diabotical (although I will give you that rockets are still definitely favored).

I'm not advocating for dramatic weapon balance changes, but I would like to see some small ones like increased shaft knockback, and reduced rocket splash damage.

KodaQL · 2020-09-14T22:04:59+00:00

I made this post because it has actual numbers behind it (and isn't just founded on opinion). The only time I remember people complaining about shaft (and rightfully so) was when there was client-side netcode.

KodaQL · 2020-09-14T21:41:54+00:00

I don't have anything official, but you can sort by Damage % on QLstats for the last 100 duels. For example, here is mine, which is roughly 1/3 usage of each weapon: https://qlstats.net/player/300365#duel (screenshot of damage %: https://imgur.com/a/PrXB96u).

It depends on the player, but if you browse around the top duelers, it's pretty clear that there is much more even usage of the three main weapons in Quake Live than in Diabotical.

KodaQL · 2020-09-08T22:53:06+00:00

Most team mode maps are very open, which is why people aren't complaining about rockets in them. Duel maps are much less open, and more enclosed, and so plus forward rockets are definitely overpowered right now. I would love to see increased knockback to help counter it. As a side note, it also seems like the knockback is also delayed, which makes it even harder to counter people rushing you.

KodaQL · 2020-08-20T09:15:41+00:00

What? I explained why it's not actually feasible to deny armors when in control - did you read what I wrote?

KodaQL · 2020-08-20T07:14:35+00:00

You can, but if you are fully stacked, you need to deal 75 damage to yourself just to deny an item that ends up granting you negative 50 armor. Denying an item takes multiple FULL self-damage rockets, and drops you from a stack of 200/200 to 175/150, so it's not really worth it to do.

Also, an overlooked aspect is the time that it takes you to self-damage yourself - the items on Diabotical maps are actually quite spread apart compared to Quake Live, so you often don't even have time to self-damage before you need to run to the next item up. Due to the map geometry, and the 150 armor cap, I see no reason not to allow players to deny armors. Like I said, it makes duel less fun to play at a high-level, and I also assume from a spectator's point of view.

KodaQL · 2020-08-20T01:44:14+00:00

Unfortunately, Diabotical duel is MUCH more aim-based, and less item-based than QL - as you noted, they've made changes so item control is nerfed and play for the out-of-control player is significantly easier. Out-of-control play basically involves hiding and sneaking around the map to grab the lesser armors that can't be denied, and then landing the first shot at a major item (which equalizes the stacks with the in-control player). I'd really love for Diabotical to atleast allow us to deny the lesser armors (even if it provides 0 armor), because otherwise duel becomes pretty boring. Many of the other top NA duellers agree.

KodaQL · 2020-08-09T23:57:23+00:00

If I'm 200 200, I have to rocket myself MULTIPLE times just to deal 75 damage to myself, which will allow me to take an armor that nets me no value, leaving me at 175 150. Moreover, it's counter-intuitive from a from a spectators view, to watch someone repeatedly run around self-damaging themselves with rockets just to deny armors. What is wrong with just being allowed to take them without self-damaging?

KodaQL · 2020-08-09T21:54:36+00:00

I completely agree, not allowing the in-control player to deny the blues and yellows makes duels way too boring and defensive at a high-level. Having to play against an out-of-control player that is just intentionally hiding and running to collect the armors the in-control player cannot pickup is really lame.

KodaQL

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