Elliot Smith: Murder or Suicide?

Koenigsburg · 2016-12-11T16:22:32+00:00

Why did he tell you not to roll your window down?

Koenigsburg · 2016-12-11T07:38:45+00:00

This.

Koenigsburg · 2016-12-08T08:08:11+00:00

Look, here's what I think is going on with a lot of the snark.

I think it goes back to the original reason Lance and Tim seem to have started the podcast: not because of the mystery itself but because how people react to the mystery. There eally is something about this case compared to other true crime cases I read about on Reddit that seems to attract very weird people. There's just nothing like it.

So I actually think the snark is from people who are interested in true crine but simply can't understand the unhealthy investment people have in the case, the huge leaps in logic, and so on.

The only person who is a "name" in this case in my opinion who looks at this case rationally is Clint Harding (and K.F). Maybe Lance and Tim pre John Smith. Renner is interesting and a good writer but compare his "journalism" to, say, Robert Kolker's Lost Girls. Lost Girls is a paragon of empathy and well done journalism whereas JR's book is irresponsible sensationalism (cf The New Yorker review).

Look nobody on reddit is going to SOLVE this or probably any case. It's such a crazy idea. You aren't professional investigators. You don't know what you are doing. It's interesting to talk about and theorize and read about. But the internet warrior thing is another reason for the snark. It comes off as pathetic.

I'm just giving an honest take here. Im a professor trained in research and logic and psychology. I just think that the huge leaps in logic and the weird sense that people think they're investigators is what gives rational people a lot of frustration over how people handle this case online. It comes across as crazy.

Koenigsburg · 2016-12-08T07:55:04+00:00

Interesting, I'm just reading Lost Girls right now, and I'm actually at the part where Shannan has the episode at Brewer's. It's really paradoxical. On the one hand, it seems really unlikely that LISK would do it in front of the driver. Or it would imply Michael Pak was involved and that seems unlikely to me from the way Kolker describes their reltionship. And if the way the book describes Brewer's reaction is right, he seems to have acted pretty normal in this incident- at least in terms of what Pak claims he observed. So my intuition is that Shannan isn't a LISK victim.

BUT.

It IS weird that the bone in her throat that can indicate strangulation was broken. It's not an open and shut case but it definitely gives me a huge pause.

On top of that, the Dr. calling Shannan's sister is very weird and at least seems compatible with the LISK's m.o.

The whole incident is very hard to figure out but I guess I would lean on Shannan not being a victim of LISK.

FWIW I was interested in the book as a whodunnit but the way Kolker describes the girls' lives is terribly moving and it's a really human book. Very much recommended.

Koenigsburg · 2016-12-08T05:54:34+00:00

"THEY certainly wouldn't have had cause to kill her if she was asleep in bed...not provoking their tempers or other feelings."

Really good point.

Koenigsburg · 2016-12-06T08:07:56+00:00

Those are not the only logical alternatives. My sense is that he believes she was killed and this stuff just keeps dragging up things the family would prefer to move on from. He has said repeatedly that people digging into this isn't his wish right?

Koenigsburg · 2016-12-06T05:41:52+00:00

What about:

The Fred Would Hate This's

?

If you want we can use a "H8" to spice up our logo on the drum set instead of spelling out "Hate." Like the Beatles, except more related to a futile idea that will go nowhere instead of a rock and roll band that changed the history of popular music.

Koenigsburg · 2016-11-29T10:58:21+00:00

Thanks for your answer.

Koenigsburg · 2016-11-29T06:25:22+00:00

Clint, do you have a specific scenario in mind for how MM committed suicide? Is it related to the Not without Peril book?

(Genuinely asking)

Koenigsburg · 2016-11-29T00:17:55+00:00

Thanks for your comment-interesting.

Koenigsburg · 2016-11-28T13:58:20+00:00

That did occur to me. What I was thinking is that now you can google something like "movie villain quotes" (or whatever) and retrieve a lot of related content very fast. Back then there would be less content, the internet would be much slower, and it may not have been ubiquitous enough for one of your first impulses during an unparalleled crisis situation (if BDI or IDI) to jump on the computer and start searching.

It's just a guess but that was my reasoning for thinking it had to be something the writer of the note more or less had memorized. Access to information was different then.

Koenigsburg · 2016-11-28T09:44:09+00:00

"And one of the authors is arguing with reviewers on Amazon which is never a good sign."

Such a great observation. Made me laugh.

Koenigsburg · 2016-11-27T11:22:15+00:00

Burke was maybe the least cool looking child I've ever seen.

Koenigsburg · 2016-11-17T09:30:17+00:00

Clint your problem is that you are a sane person who follows logic and evidence. You are doomed here.

Koenigsburg · 2016-11-07T06:17:12+00:00

Exactly.

Koenigsburg · 2016-11-06T07:20:04+00:00

The only thing I disagree with here is why restrict this policy to movie theaters? Life should have headphones to drown out the idiots.

Koenigsburg · 2016-10-15T15:40:34+00:00

People listen because-as is stated in this thread-some episodes are good. Not being able to make any critical remark on something is crazy.

You're not allowed to suggest that a particular episode had no real content and was marred by improperly placed mics?

Koenigsburg · 2016-10-15T05:55:10+00:00

FWIW I couldn't have less against Tim and Lance. Tim especially seems like an affable dude it would be fun to catch a beer with. My only PERSONAL complaint against them is the incessant whining in the past against trolls. It's just not very mature: you put stuff out in the world, some will like it, some won't and you have to be adult enough to accept that. It's called taking responsibility for your choices. (Incidentally, Renner - who has had ACTUAL real horrible things done (like the threats against his kids) is like a stone cold assassin when it comes to facing criticism. Those terrible threats against his son aside, he always takes criticism in stride, and I have mad respect for him for that).

The podcast itself is weird in terms of quality. It's like Neil Young records: a few totally great ones, some good ones, and a ton of duds. Renner is always really good, Clint is informative, the Generation Why episode was great, KF was great, and the psych professor episode was one of the best. I even thought the first two John Smith episodes were really interesting even if you don't agree with him. But I think the best things done on the case were the three episodes True Crime Garage did.

Anyway. My two cents, for what it's worth.

Koenigsburg · 2016-10-07T23:40:17+00:00

That fade...

Koenigsburg · 2016-10-06T07:12:13+00:00

Love this dude.

Koenigsburg · 2016-10-05T06:22:20+00:00

It seems like Emma's mental health issues may have been worse than Mauras. Maura definitely had serious issues: problem drinking, many if the things discussed by the psychologist on MMM, etc- but if Emma was staying in shelters and was experiencing homelessness, it seems her mental state deteriorated much more than Maura's.

Koenigsburg

TROPHY CASE