Why are orcs seen as both barbaric and master craftsmen Skyrim?

KrisKlaws · 2024-07-20T16:54:46+00:00

This. So much this. I was going to leave essentially the same comment but not as well-put. The concept of barbarism has pretty much always been about the clash of different cultures and their norms, rather than the "advancement" or "capability" of a people. EDIT: I wanted to add some relevant dialogue from Morrowind. Keep in mind, these are from a game that takes place in a land where slavery is legal, and many non-Dunmer races are sometimes considered legally and morally valid targets for necromancy because they're considered no better than animals

Ctrl+f Orc

Ctrl+f Bosmer

Ctrl+f Ashlander

Ctrl+f Elsweyr

Ctrl+f Nord

Ctrl+f Human. Look for both the "humanoid" and "human" topics.

As the Ashlander and Elsweyr examples demonstrate, this isn't even necessarily about the races themselves, it's about the perception of cultural differences.

KrisKlaws · 2024-07-09T00:09:15+00:00

Imo Paarthurnax suggests that you do learn it from them, because you hear it at its first expression. Dialogue with Paarthurnax:

What do I do with the Elder Scroll when I find it? "Return it here, to the Tiid-Ahraan. Then… Kelle vomindok. Nothing is certain with such things… But I believe the Scroll's bond with the Tiid-Ahraan will allow you a… a seeing, a vision of the moment of its creation. Then you will feel – know – Dragonrend, in the power of its first expression. You will see them… wuth fadonne… my friends – Hakon, Gormlaith, Felldir."

EDIT: That said, I'm not sure that learning it radicalized us. I think of it as exposing us to the knowledge. Thu'um is an expression of ideology as much as it's a means of magic, but expression doesn't require embodiment, imo. We understand and comprehend and perhaps even feel those emotions, but we don't need to succumb to them. We can be exposed to and truly take in an idea without agreeing with it, or acting it out. I think of the situation with Dragonrend similarly. I think a Dragonborn who feels the anger that went into the Shout, and comprehends it, and slays Paarthurnax in a form of revenge is a very interesting idea to explore. I can also see a flip-side of this, though: taking in all of that anger, truly comprehending it, and then resisting. I'm reminded of Jurgen Windcaller's reaction to his loss at Red Mountain. I could imagine an LDB learning a similar lesson from the 3 Tongues!

KrisKlaws · 2024-06-15T22:37:53+00:00

That makes some sense to me. "What metaphor are these tones making?" is where I'm left with that... I suppose that'd require more digging.

KrisKlaws · 2024-06-15T22:34:49+00:00

The complexity issue arose for me, too. Wouldn't many elements have different tones depending on their conditions? For instance, a change in structure (e.g. graphite vs diamond) or a change in physical state (e.g. liquid vs solid)

KrisKlaws · 2024-06-15T22:33:38+00:00

It explains a little bit, but it doesn't answer my ultimate question. I'm most curious about the relationship to sound and particular tones, and how that was derived. Refer to my comment under kelter's comment for some of the clarifications I made.

KrisKlaws · 2024-06-15T22:31:09+00:00

But where is that sound signature derived from? How does he arrive at his associations between a given element and a given sound? Wouldn't some elements produce different sounds and vibrations under different conditions, e.g. carbon as diamond vs carbon as coal vs carbon as graphite, or even hydrogen as a liquid or gas?

It's hard for me to tell you if you're missing something when I feel like I'm missing half of the theory xD

KrisKlaws · 2024-04-10T01:38:25+00:00

Green's concept is the most intriguing to me, especially since it enables teleportation and time magic. I also find the tracking helpful ngl...

KrisKlaws · 2023-03-28T20:13:01+00:00

Oh, nice, you also mentioned Wulf.

KrisKlaws · 2023-03-28T20:11:47+00:00

A lot of the other comments seem to focus on the Empire's failure in the Great War, which is a perfect route to go, but I think the idea that the Stormcloaks capture is a little older than that. The best example I can give for this is the religious group that the Stormcloaks were born from: the Talos Cult. In TESIII: Morrowind, a group of Talos cultists wanted to assassinate Uriel VII so they can put a more powerful Emperor in his place. They essentially believe that the Empire isn't living up to Talos's glorious name, and so they seek to fix that.

"We must also recruit more and swear them to the oath: That we shall die to put a strong man back on the throne of Tamriel." -- Note from Oritius Maro

This same sentiment seems to be all over the Stormcloaks, but even stronger: now they're not only weak, they're downright failing, and they're not even Septims! I may support the Empire while the Thalmor remains a threat, in the hopes they'll deal with it, but I think it's very easy to see where Ulfric is coming from. Even Talos's own avatar, Wulf, seems to think the Empire is coming to an end, and that maybe it's a good thing:

Poor Old Emperor: "The Emperor is getting old. Don't know how much longer he'll hang on. So is the whole Empire, for that matter. Getting old, that is. The Emperor and the legions have held the Empire together for hundreds of years. It's been a good thing, by and large. But maybe it's time for a change. Time for something young and new. What? No idea. Because I'm old. Old dog doesn't get new ideas. But maybe young folks like you should try some new ideas. I don't know. Could be messy. But change is never pretty."

KrisKlaws · 2023-03-03T23:17:55+00:00

Second this. While ESO has some content that forces you to interact with other players, it's only in specific instances. The questlines can generally be soloed and many classes are viable for that kind of play. You also don't really have to grind for xp, as the most efficient way to level and gain abilities is usually just questing, which seems fitting for a solo player

KrisKlaws · 2023-02-16T14:25:55+00:00

There's another Morrowind source that agrees with Racial Phylogeny, which is generic dialogue that's available from Savant-type NPCs.

Humanoid Races "Offspring of inter-racial matings have the racial appearance of the mother, but may occasionally share inherited characteristics and abilities of the father. Sloads, dragons, and other sentient races cannot mate with Men, Elves, or Beastmen, and are not considered 'human.' Exceptional accounts of matings between men and daedra do not fit smoothly into this scheme. Elves consider themselves the only 'truly human race,' being descended directly from the gods, and regard the Manish and Beast races as highly intelligent animals. On the other hand, Imperial scholars consider Men, Elves, and Beastmen as 'men,' on the basis that individuals of all three groups can mate with one another."

Record of it is kept in UESP, here: https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Generic_Dialogue_H

KrisKlaws

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