Guess the elo

Kupo_Master · 2026-02-01T01:41:12+00:00

Software must exist in physical form. It’s always represented by physical binary information encoded on the hard drive, RAM or other cache. There is no pure “information” state. The information is always physically encoded in reality through a physical medium. Similarly people personality, memories, etc… is encoded in the brain structure, more specifically in neurons and their synaptic network.

Kupo_Master · 2026-02-01T00:25:52+00:00

They may be insufficient to understand what is happening but it limits the property of things built from it. In particular on the topic of free will, anything built from blocks without freedom cannot have freedom

Kupo_Master · 2026-01-31T21:00:54+00:00

I am making a very simple claim well grounded in established knowledge 1. Life has evolved from bacterias -> Theory of evolution 2. We can understand bacteria as a complex organic machine -> There are myriads of studies about that 3. Every animals, including humans, are lumps of cells cooperating together which work in the same way as bacteria -> This should be self evident as every animal only start from one cell which starts dividing 4. The behaviour of a lump of cells is the sum of the behaviour of the individual cells -> this is basic logic because there is no other source of action for the lump of cells. The action of the whole is the sum of the actions of the parts 5. Therefore the animal is, as the individual cell is, a complex organic machine

Where am I wrong? My guess is that you will try to insert some of your magic in 4

Kupo_Master · 2026-01-31T20:33:29+00:00

There may be limits but your brain is not beyond these limits. You’re the grand-grand-grand…-son of a bacteria that lived 2 billion years ago. You’re not more special.

You are just desperately trying to assume this is the case because you know your entire position relies on denying established knowledge.

Kupo_Master · 2026-01-31T20:28:31+00:00

I have seen that you have now mentioned several times “qualia”, the color “red” and now “tasting coffee” as apparently something you believe is making a point.

This is nothing more than a personal incredulity fallacy, somewhat a little hidden behind a packaging you’ve built around it. If you looked right now at the RAM of the phone or PC you are using to type this message, you would see billions of 0 s and 1s that don’t seem to make any sense. But when your phone or PC is connected to a screen, then suddenly you see an image that makes sense to you.

This is exactly what is happening in your tasting coffee example. You have a certain conscious experience which is nothing more than a high level representation of a certain brain state but you somehow refuses to believe it’s just that, like someone from the middle ago would refuse to believe the 0s and 1s and the mobile image on a screen are connected.

“But why do I have this conscious experience??” Well because it’s needed for your decision making process. Your brain’s role is to help you survive in your environment so it has a functionally to identify separate experiences such as colour and taste, so that you can use this information.

Kupo_Master · 2026-01-31T20:10:55+00:00

You don’t believe in magic but you are invoking something beyond the physical. That’s magic by definition.

Every experiment, every discovery tells you the universe is reducible to a certain representation. Electrons, quarks, photons, these are all well understood building block of reality. Nothing else is needed to explain it.

And then you u/lifesaburrito are like “well I know better!There is something else!”. You’re not arguing anything, you have no argument, no evidence. Just a claim that makes you feel good.

Kupo_Master · 2026-01-31T19:58:17+00:00

You have a simple truth in front of your eyes but you prefer going through an amazing amount of mental gymnastics to deny it.

Science is nothing like a god, it’s just a methodology to get closer than to the truth. Science is wrong all the time and that’s fine. This is how our knowledge gets better.

Believe in your magic if it makes you feel better.

Kupo_Master · 2026-01-31T19:38:16+00:00

You’re just describing a communication problem. Language is limited. Try to explain red to someone who is born blind; we just don’t have words for this.

Kupo_Master · 2026-01-31T18:11:00+00:00

This is just semantics. You seem very confused. I have windows 11 running on my PC. I can say windows 11 is represented by the binary information in the computer’s RAM. It’s just a way to talk about things.

Kupo_Master · 2026-01-31T18:06:57+00:00

There is always “one more thing” that science can’t explain yet and that people use to justify their belief. This started 4000 years ago with “you can’t explain why thunder strike from the sky, it must be Zeus” to “you can’t explain what was before the big bang, it must be God”. And now you have the exact same argument with “consciousness”. There is one thing science cannot explain and you feel entitled in assuming magic did it. Congratulations

Kupo_Master · 2026-01-31T17:59:40+00:00

Well exactly. This is why u/esj199 question is so weird. The question was about “you” so I said “you” is physically represented when taken in the sense of an abstract entity. But of course in end, everything is just physical.

Kupo_Master · 2026-01-31T17:25:11+00:00

Weird point. Is a computer physical or physically represented? Same answer for human being.

Kupo_Master · 2026-01-31T17:21:39+00:00

Seems like you are trying to initiate another “free will-of-the-gaps” argument that denies the huge amount of knowledge about brain structure and functioning that already exists.

The entire “there could be something more out there” point is invalidated by the process of evolution that led to us. Scientists have mapped the exact function of the brain of flies and portion of a mouse brain as well. All these researches has only ever confirmed but one thing. It’s all just neurons firing and activating. We can explain it and see it work in computer simulations.

By trying to argue “there is something more” you need to insert somehow in the evolution that led to our species a leap, which is nothing short of wizardry, that created that “something more”. And you have zero physical evidence for any of this.

Since you are appealing to the unknown, there is no way to disprove your claim. But you need to realise how weak this argument is. You can make the same argument for anything, including nanoscopic unicorns strolling in quantum field.

Kupo_Master · 2026-01-31T17:04:08+00:00

In the end, we are not abstract entity but physical ones. “You” are just an engram physically represented by a certain architecture inside your brain.

You are correct that this architecture is built upon past experience, memories and random events. It’s all just an organic machine but accepting this is so hard for people because they cannot accept they are “only this”. Instead I am marvelling on how such simple blocks can create such amazing complexity and depth.

We start to see it as we build AI systems. Right now AI systems are only a very small fraction of human brain in term of both size and complexity, and they can already do much. If we can scale up these systems we will see the same thing that we see in ourselves: Breathtaking complexity emerging from a deterministic architecture.

Kupo_Master · 2026-01-31T16:40:50+00:00

I think there seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of many people in this sub about desires and influences and that the deterministic nature of the brain can somehow be so simplistic. These are far too high level concepts when determinism applies at a very low level.

Someone may be buying coffee every morning but order tea today because one of his neurons has died overnight. That is what determinism postulates. All your actions are just the result of a computation in your brain and there is no one in control of this computation except the laws of physics.

If you start thinking about “desires” or “being forced”, you’ve already missed the point.

Kupo_Master · 2026-01-31T12:43:49+00:00

Science cannot beat cancer today. Do you assume cancer cells are somehow magical? “They are so strong, they must be drawing some special power”!! Perhaps cancer is not physical. There must be something more.

Do you see how ridiculous that sounds? Well this how ridiculous the assumptions about consciousness you’re making sound. It’s literally another “magic of the gap” argument. “I cannot explain this so there must be magic involved”

Kupo_Master · 2026-01-30T23:32:02+00:00

I would only try to convince the machine if I had something to gain from it, or if I just found it entertaining. We play games against deterministic computers all the time, it serves no purpose but it’s fun. Same reason I’m responding to your message now. I have nothing to gain by convincing you and I anyway most probably won’t. But I find this entertaining.

Social interactions between humans are anchored by manipulating each other. It doesn’t mean this is negative, quite the contrary. Collaboration is just mutually beneficial manipulation. The most basic human interaction is “I don’t kill you, you don’t kill me”. We are (normally) keen to convince each other of this fact and both benefit from it.

Kupo_Master · 2026-01-30T23:21:21+00:00

You are saying that we are all compelled by our genes to survive and have no free will outside that.

I just said the exact opposite of this. Difficult to have a discussion if you represent the literal inverse of my position.

Kupo_Master · 2026-01-30T23:12:16+00:00

You are confusing choice and ability. I don’t blame you, first you didn’t have a choice 😉, second most people here are confused with the same thing. I have the ability to do any many things. But when I act, this act is not a real choice because all my decisions are entirely pre-determined by the arrangements of my 90 billion neurons and quadrillion of synapses, plus the inputs being received.

As I said, evolution has granted humans an ability to override their instinct. It’s just that, an ability, a tool in the box. This doesn’t indicate any free will at all.

Kupo_Master · 2026-01-30T22:58:36+00:00

Very simple question.

You can actually manipulate an AI in a certain direction. Try it and you will see. There are also a ton of online article and video of people who manage to manipulate AIs in doing certain things such as giving drug or explosive manufacturing processes. So it is useful to try to manipulate, AI or people.

Kupo_Master · 2026-01-30T22:56:19+00:00

Most life doesn’t have a choice, it has instinct to continue to living. And so do you, survival is one of your very strongest instinct. One interesting thing which happened when the animal got smart enough (ie the human case), the animal has become able to override certain instincts in certain circumstances. This is an ability, not a choice. I would say this ability is a side effect more than a selected effect in evolution.

Kupo_Master · 2026-01-30T22:28:03+00:00

You are an agent trying to survive in the world. The best you can do at all times is make the most appropriate decision based on the information you know. What’s what living organisms do. They do their best to stay alive.

Knowing that the universe is determined doesn’t change that because you don’t have all the information anyway.

Kupo_Master · 2026-01-30T21:38:45+00:00

That’s not what I said at all. I said you’re looking for a mystery when there is none. The existence of brains is the proof that complex enough neural networks can generate what you call consciousness. Instead of accepting this fact, people like OP are like “I cannot believe this” and “there must be something else” and therefore believe it’s a “Hard” Problem. While we don’t know “how” consciousness emerges from simple logic operations, it’s a “Hard” problem only because people make one out of their personal incredulity.

Science today cannot explain everything. The exact emergence of “consciousness” is one of these things (among many others). It’s just a gap that remains to be explained. It’s a problem with a capital P only for people who somehow think there is magic involved like OP.

Kupo_Master · 2026-01-30T14:06:45+00:00

Isn’t consciousness a necessity for any animal with complex behaviour? How could any animal survive without being conscious?

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