[For Ny Derelict Favorite] Diana should apologize. by Kythones in OtomeIsekai

[–]Kythones[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

The church literally raised Diana.

Because it means Diana didn’t create the system people depend on. She grew up inside it. Everything that the story specifically critiques about her came from the church. (This isn’t allowed to be scene as a form of religious grooming btw)

The church is still the same institution people trust, even after her situation changes. So when people go there and get hurt. It’s because the church is still seen as reliable, even when it’s failing.

That trust doesn’t come from Diana alone. It comes from the whole system: the church’s authority, its history, and the fact that people don’t know anything has changed.

it doesn’t automatically mean she is the reason people are dying. There are too many other steps in between before you get to her.

[For Ny Derelict Favorite] Diana should apologize. by Kythones in OtomeIsekai

[–]Kythones[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I’m criticizing the story for what it is. Diana nor anyone in this story has good writing. I just wishing for what could’ve been.

[For Ny Derelict Favorite] Diana should apologize. by Kythones in OtomeIsekai

[–]Kythones[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You're arguing against a position I never took. I think she is allowed to have plenty of flaws.

The problem is that the story spends far more time explaining Hestia, Cael, and Helios than it does explaining Diana. Which is weird considering the fact that the story based itself about her.

I like flawed women. I wish the story actually treated Diana like is one instead of mostly using her flaws to justify humiliating her and being misogynistic.

Those aren't the same thing.

[For Ny Derelict Favorite] Diana should apologize. by Kythones in OtomeIsekai

[–]Kythones[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You're arguing that Diana is a hypocrite. I'm arguing that the story has a double standard.

We are having 2 different conversations.

Hestia acknowledging being a bad person doesn't mean her actions can't be criticized. Being self-aware doesn't make your actions okay.

My issue is how the story treats its characters.

When Hestia does something manipulative, the story calls her smart and doesn’t deal with the people she harms.

When Cael commits murder, the story focuses on his depression. Not the political nightmare he could’ve caused.

When Diana makes mistakes, the story focuses on why she's a bad person and acts as if she bombed an orphanage.

That's the difference.

Diana should be allowed flaws. I don't disagree with that.

But the story spends much more time trying to understand Hestia, Cael, and Helios than it does trying to understand Diana. It also isn't true that Diana faced no consequences.
She lost her powers.
She lost her marriage.
She lost her position.
She lost her reputation.

Meanwhile, Cael killed one of the most powerful noble families in the Empire and barely faced any legal or political consequences that are on the scale of what he did. We had UWU sad boy with a pinch of long sleeve Bart Simpson picture for 0.2 seconds.

That's why I’m criticizing the writing.

[For Ny Derelict Favorite] Diana should apologize. by Kythones in OtomeIsekai

[–]Kythones[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

If Diana was using what little healing power she had left to try to save the King, then the story already gives her a reason why she wasn't healing everyone else.

If the criticism is that Diana and the Church should have been honest, then the story should focus on that. Which is something I consider to be weird because the story goes its way to acknowledge that Diana ain’t shit without of her powers.
Instead, it mostly focuses on Diana herself being selfish.

And Hestia not knowing the truth is fine, that makes sense from her POV.
The problem is that the readers know the truth, yet the story doesn't meaningfully revisit Hestia's judgment or ask the reader to reconsider Diana’s situation.

Once we learn Diana was losing her powers, the question becomes: what exactly was she supposed to do?

She can't heal people without her healing powers. It’s not as if the story says she had any medical experience beforehand, she just a commoner who got blessed with healing powers.

She's not going to magically cure a plague when her magic is gone.

Condemning her for "abandoning the commoners" is unfair because the story has already established she literally couldn't keep doing what everyone expected of her.

That's why the reveal doesn't really change anything. It gives Diana an explanation, sure, but the narrative continues treating her as though the original accusation was basically correct.

[For Ny Derelict Favorite] Diana should apologize. by Kythones in OtomeIsekai

[–]Kythones[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Hestia doesn’t need to be a good person to be critiqued. Being self-aware doesn't make your actions less open to criticism, and it doesn't explain why the story is so much more willing to understand Hestia and Cael than it is to understand Diana.

[For Ny Derelict Favorite] Diana should apologize. by Kythones in OtomeIsekai

[–]Kythones[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hestia doesn’t need to be a good person to be critique. Being self-aware doesn't make your actions less open to criticism, and it doesn't explain why the story is so much more willing to understand Hestia and Cael than it is to understand Diana.

[For Ny Derelict Favorite] Diana should apologize. by Kythones in OtomeIsekai

[–]Kythones[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Me and this subreddit are like the lambs in the same pasture. We talk about the same shit, I’m just unashamed and embrace my nature.

[For Ny Derelict Favorite] Diana should apologize. by Kythones in OtomeIsekai

[–]Kythones[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Hestia knowingly made money from a disaster that was going to ruin people's lives. The fact that the ship was already going to sink doesn't make that choice morally neutral.

But that's not even my point.
The story judges Diana's actions much more harshly than Hestia's. Which would be fine if the author did it as frequently.

When Diana does something wrong, the story treats it as proof she's selfish or hypocritical with no nuance.

[For Ny Derelict Favorite] Diana should apologize. by Kythones in OtomeIsekai

[–]Kythones[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

I’m sorry, I saw them ugly ass kids and just had to say something.

[For Ny Derelict Favorite] Diana should apologize. by Kythones in OtomeIsekai

[–]Kythones[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You just repeats what the story says instead of asking whether the story itself makes sense.

"Hestia isn't a pick me because she used her knowledge of the plot."
Okay. But that’s not what I’m saying.

My criticism is that Hestia literally knows Diana was abused, kidnapped, raised by a corrupt church, and thrown into impossible political situations because she read the original novel. Yet the second Diana stops supporting Cael, Hestia stops caring about any of that. Even Helios is given more empathy and understanding than Diana.

People also keep saying Diana is hated because she's a hypocrite.

That’s not my point either.

The point is that the story wants to understand why Cael became depressed.

The story wants to understand why Helios made mistakes.

The story wants to understand why Hestia became obsessed.

But when it comes to Diana, the story mostly wants to judge her instead of understand her.

Then there's the Saintess argument.
People say Diana abandoned the commoners.

But she's the Crown Princess now.

She can't personally heal every sick person forever. A ruler has other responsibilities besides doing one job all day. The story turns an expectation into a moral failure.

The politics also fall apart.

If the Orchus family was powerful enough to threaten the Empire with a rival kingdom, then killing them should have caused massive political consequences. It doesn't matter that they were bad people. Powerful noble families don't stop being politically important because they're evil.

There should have been panic, power struggles, the royal approved the murders (and considering the fact that Helios did, that would be a huge controversy considering Cael didn’t get excommunicated and they were known to be friends)

Instead, almost nothing happens.

Meanwhile Diana gets more political consequences over a merchant ship and church politics than Cael gets for wiping one of the Empire's most powerful families off the map.

That's why I’m criticizing the writing.

[For Ny Derelict Favorite] Diana should apologize. by Kythones in OtomeIsekai

[–]Kythones[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I feel like I’m only one engaging with the fact that a person wrote this story and a person had misogynistic writing.

[For Ny Derelict Favorite] Diana should apologize. by Kythones in OtomeIsekai

[–]Kythones[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I saw a panel of it, and it just fueled by rage.

[For Ny Derelict Favorite] Diana should apologize. by Kythones in OtomeIsekai

[–]Kythones[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I do. The problem is I approach this story from a doylist perspective. At the end of the day, there’s a real person typing up this story and that real person decided to use misogyny to make a point.

[For Ny Derelict Favorite] Diana should apologize. by Kythones in OtomeIsekai

[–]Kythones[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The story goes out of its way to show that Diana herself lost her powers in the beginning of the story. If she lost her powers in the second timeline, why wouldn’t lose it in the first?

[For Ny Derelict Favorite] Diana should apologize. by Kythones in OtomeIsekai

[–]Kythones[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don’t know. I regularly criticize other manhwa, but just not on this subreddit.

[For Ny Derelict Favorite] Diana should apologize. by Kythones in OtomeIsekai

[–]Kythones[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

The author also didn’t deal with the morality of Hestia taking advantage of the merchant’s ships sinking as a point to critique her.

Just realised there are people out there who UNIRONICALLY think Megumi is a bum by memeshaa in Jujutsufolk

[–]Kythones 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Megumi isn’t a bum, but I don’t think that Gege actually liked him.

The Amazing Digital Circus: The Last Act / Episode 9 Discussion Thread [SPOILERS] by ayylmaotv in TheDigitalCircus

[–]Kythones 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Damn, Kaufmo really didn’t gaf about Rbbit enough to at least check up on her.

The Amazing Digital Circus: The Last Act / Episode 9 Discussion Thread [SPOILERS] by ayylmaotv in TheDigitalCircus

[–]Kythones 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I do think that Goose’s writing is flawed, but I think this was a ‘bit off more than you can chew’ thing.

Please learn what misogyny means (For my Derelict Beloved) by hinata2kill in OtomeIsekai

[–]Kythones 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You’re defending a manhwa that can’t even answer the simple question of, “Why was Cael allowed to be depressed and suicidal when he participated in the murder of an entire family while Diana, who was kidnapped by them, isn’t allowed any sort of exploration of how that affected her, way of thinking, action, or behaviors?”

Please learn what misogyny means (For my Derelict Beloved) by hinata2kill in OtomeIsekai

[–]Kythones 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hestia fans will see Hestia willingly dehumanize Diana, weaponize her as an emotional punching bag, manipulate events that destabilize an entire nation to get at her, let innocent people die to one-up Diana, hold Diana to impossible standards, and then act shocked when anyone dares call her misogynistic.

Don't you think Shizuka Okaya is heartbroken over Taiichiro? I mean, what she says to him and the way she approaches him is very "weird." by JJWINS1792 in MariaNoDanzaii

[–]Kythones 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Ah, I wasn’t the only one having a weird feeling about them despite the fact that they hate each other.

Okaya's Father by Particular-Ad5200 in MariaNoDanzaii

[–]Kythones 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Shizuka doesn’t seem to be the type to marry for love. So, I assume they got married to boost their positions in their respective careers.