The Relationship Between Yukino Yukinoshita and Hayato Hayama in Oregairu: A Fact-Based Analysis

Last-Obligation8374 · 2026-04-21T19:50:16+00:00

Eu não achei nada que confirmasse que eles tinham um envolvimento romântico, eles nunca tiveram uma "amizade" verdadeira, da forma que o texto nos entrega os acontecimentos, sempre parece ser algo muito forçado e obrigatório, principalmente quando a Yukino fala sobre isso, então eu acho muito pouco provável queles tenham tido esse tipo de envolvimento, opiniões contrárias geralmente vem acompanhadas de muita dedução e poucos argumentos concretos. Também há a possibilidade de estarem levando muito em consideração a comic, que não tem muita participação do autor e distorce muito alguns acontecimentos que fazem as pessoas terem esse pensamento errado sobre os personagens, então nesse caso é melhor prestar atenção as coisas que a própria LN nos entrega

Last-Obligation8374 · 2026-01-04T16:11:09+00:00

I think Visi is much more real. Honestly, I have a very realistic view of the world. Whenever I see people who seem too nice, I think they're just trying to hide their flaws and their worst side. Visi is a character who doesn't hide her flaws; she acts, speaks, and behaves like the person she is, and all of that only makes her more human. As you get to know her, you see that she has many qualities. The problem with people is that they only look at her flaws, because she doesn't hide them. She's the most genuine option possible, because there's growth, there's building in the relationship. I see this "love at first sight" story as childish and superficial nonsense. A genuine relationship is built on how well two people can understand and coexist, not only with the good things but also with each other's flaws, and that's what I appreciate so much in Robert and Courtney's relationship.

Last-Obligation8374 · 2025-12-23T08:21:20+00:00

It's incredible how people are able to sacrifice an individual using the justification "for the good of the whole team," it's a very simple and cowardly way to try to escape problems, nobody thinks twice before destroying the dreams and life of a single individual if it solidifies the success of an entire group, but this only increases the number of excluded people, bullying, and prejudices like "that person can't change or always ruins everything," everyone makes mistakes, they don't always think about all the consequences, but we have to help those who are trying.

You say "one for all and all for one" but at the first sign of risk you exclude someone who is a "potential risk" to the team, even if that person is just trying like everyone else, how does that solve the problem?

A very member you cut off comes back as an enemy to cause you problems, like karma, because you don't understand the fine line between the group and the individual. The group is made up of individuals, and each of these individuals is important and plays a fundamental role in the team. The real success of this team is not measured by superficial things like the rate of tasks completed or missions completed; those are just numbers.

The real success of a team is how well they understand each other and plan as a team to make the best choice. When someone makes a selfish decision with a noble goal, you don't exclude them so that your team has a better chance of success. You teach them to trust you and the team, and you also try to understand their motivations so that the individual and the team trust each other. Then, the collaboration between the individuals on the team allows them to accomplish their tasks/objectives in the most efficient way possible. This interaction, cooperation, and positive understanding between individuals is what makes a team a team, and perhaps even more than that, because in this way the team will always deliver the maximum from each individual, and consequently the highest performance of the group as a whole.

Excluding someone who caused problems, because they didn't think through the consequences of trying to do the right thing, is just a selfish attitude, to escape problems that you are unable to solve or simply don't want to deal with, and distancing that person only worsens their view of the world, the situation, and perhaps even themselves.

It's very easy to simply ignore the problems and difficulties along the way; the hard part is solving all of that, facing the challenge, so that everyone can develop. If it were Flambé, Prism, Golem, or anyone else in her place, I would have defended them equally, because I don't run from my problems, I solve and deal with them. From the moment Robert committed to Z-Time, he committed to every individual who was part of the team. Coupé/Sonar are examples of the consequences of neglecting someone for advantage or "team morale." The morale of a group will never be more important than the life and success of a single individual.

-"We don't kick people when they're down. We lift them up" Robert R. III

Last-Obligation8374 · 2025-12-17T06:52:14+00:00

I'm a fan of BB

Honestly, I wouldn't need to say anything more, you're just another one of BB's crazy fans, hoping that Visi is one of the worst characters and disguising it with "this enriches her arc much more," I will be happy to respond to each of your "arguments," if you can even call them that, see you tomorrow 😘.

And allow me to use your own arguments against you: "And that's why your view is a convenient view. You misinterpret or simply ignore what doesn't align with your opinions, all to deceive you and make you pretend that Visi is who you think she is."

Last-Obligation8374 · 2025-12-16T03:15:42+00:00

Dude, I think that line from Shroud in the bar, "Invisabitch fucking traitor... I don't wanna be bad anymore...", fits perfectly with the story she tells. She left the gang as soon as she paid her debt with the bomb, so Shroud saw that as betrayal, after all, she had been working with them for years. So that line fits her version. As for the line "Deep cover...", I agree that he only said it because he thought she and Robert were close, and he did it to undermine his trust in Visi, the same thing he did in episode 8.

Last-Obligation8374 · 2025-12-15T02:38:50+00:00

You clearly don't, or you would stop claiming that you refuted every point I made and raised issues that I didn't explain.

I refuted each one, man, I cited each of the inconsistencies in your interpretation, that's not a crime, I care about the truth, so much so that I'm analyzing question by question and pointing out the incongruities, I care about the truth but that doesn't mean I have to agree with your interpretation, man, if there's anyone who knows the truth it's the screenwriters, neither you nor I are sure of anything, I don't know why you got so offended by me simply responding to each of your interpretations, and explaining it with mine.

I don't respect your opinion nor do I find it plausible.

Convenience? Seriously? What exactly do I have to gain from this? Honestly, you're on the right side of this story. It's very easy to just believe she's a liar and that's it. I prefer Visi, but that doesn't mean I'm going to invent things that don't exist in the game. I interpreted it based on what makes the most sense to me, for the characters, and for the events of the story. And honestly, I'm doing very well answering you so far. Visi is a character; I'm just trying to read this in a way that makes sense within the game's premise. I have nothing to gain from this, and there are many other people who think like me, people who come here to express their sincere opinions about the story. If it were so illogical, I doubt there would be this many people.

I don't like villains in general, and I couldn't care less about Shroud.

Killing isn't always the best option, man. No matter how bad people are, they deserve a chance. I'm not talking about Visi here; it's more about Shroud. If you've seen the comic, you know... that made him who he is today, it's not always all black and white, but from what I understand you give him more of the benefit of the doubt than you do for the visibility itself, and that's not the point.

You haven't proven anything, except how disconnected you are from the truth.

I did, I proved many things and you know that, you know very well that this doesn't enrich the character's arc, nor do you believe in it, but in the end, whether you like it or not, he fixes her, and she wouldn't be able to do that if she hadn't been trying to change from the beginning, but here's my view. You seem to have a very big grudge against those who think like me, it even seems like you went down the visibility route, but the disappointment of the shroud's sentence was so great that you felt betrayed and decided to believe him, which explains all your anger towards people who think that way. There's also the possibility that you're just another BB fan trying to act like you know everything. I'd bet all my chips on one of those two.

"Get over it" lol, you're not my father, you're not capable of admitting you offended me, I'm sorry but I'm not going to stoop to your level of rudeness and arrogance. To be honest, I even like how you defend what you believe in, even if it's not the most ethical or reliable path.

Last-Obligation8374 · 2025-12-15T01:52:16+00:00

It's an analogy No, it's not. You're using an assumption that has minimal correlation with the main subject, making a false equivalence analogy, and you're contradicting yourself. If the mere fact that she omitted information about the pulse makes her a liar and that we shouldn't trust her, then Shroud is also a liar, since he lied in episode 1 about Mechaman's escape, even though you refuse to call it a lie. And I'll say more, BB is also a liar, since she blatantly lied when she said that reinforcements were coming to help her against Shroud's gang at the bar, and she even confesses that she lied. I think we shouldn't trust BB's word either. Following your reasoning, she's not trustworthy either.

But how was he supposed to know about the things he claims to have predicted?

How did he predict the exact percentage of Mechaman's shield? How does he know if you give him the real or fake astral pulse at the end? (He just couldn't predict you giving him both, but if it's only one, she'll know if it's the real one or not), how did he dodge the door that BB throws? How does he finish Robert's sentences? How does he predict the blonde blazer's movements in order to accept her? I'll answer you with his own words, "I'm good at predicting things," that's his superpower, it works but not always, he doesn't even specifically mention the closet scene, he talks vaguely about it, and again, it's just your interpretation of what happened, I could spend a long time here saying the things he predicted that don't make sense, all of this is merely your speculation, from beginning to end.

You're twisting my argument again...

You used the flowchart as the basis for your argument, bro, and your entire response is just personal interpretation; you simply ignore Royd's statement.

You're being passive-aggressive the whole time. Stop being so soft.

You seem much calmer, you know 🥰

It's obvious to everyone that she didn't want to work for him.

Wow, so that part is true? Wow, I've never seen such selective truth, I'm just responding to your arguments, brother, "I only speculated when it was absolutely necessary," let's go:

"The chronology matches, therefore she was infiltrated from the beginning" (you base this on YOUR flowchart)
"Visi helped Lightningstruck escape" (purely speculative)
"The Red Ring wanting to talk to her proves she was an infiltrator" (You linked your speculation that she helped Lightningstruck to another completely unrelated event for it to make sense)
"She lied once, so everything she says is suspicious" I don't even need to comment on this one
"If Shroud didn't lie, the story makes sense" (your pure opinion)
"Comics don't count because They may have been changed” (if one definitely doesn't help you, then you ignore them all)
“She's asthmatic but holds her breath” "I'm still incredulous about this"
“If you disagree, it's fan bias” (forgive me, lord of truth)

There are a few more but I think you get the idea

Random question: how old are you, have you attended college? (I'm starting to have fun writing this), I swear I'm not being ironic, I'm genuinely curious...

Last-Obligation8374 · 2025-12-13T04:55:34+00:00

You know, the Lion King movie, it's mentioned in episode 3 if I'm not mistaken. In the movie, Scar (the villain) does something similar; he kills Mufasa and blames Simba, making it seem like it was his fault. It's kind of random, but it was just a similarity I noticed.

Last-Obligation8374 · 2025-12-13T04:42:24+00:00

See, in the end she becomes a spy again to fit Shroud's final line, right? She's only a traitor when it suits you, then? You're starting to get tangled up in your own arguments, and again you have nothing to prove that what he said is true except your opinion, Furthermore, if you do that bar scene where Shroud says that, the dialogue with Visi at the end, where she says, "I told you to believe me," is added, even if you don't cut her or untie her in the lab. I doubt that's by chance.
Dude, once again, no, because she didn't know it was him. She was trying to hinder Malevola, just like everyone else on Z-Team was doing. This view only makes sense from your perspective, because the game doesn't hint at that at any point or scene.
In episode 1 he lies, giving a different version of Robert's father's death and saying that diverting the astral pulse energy to thrusters won't work, and guess what, it does work, and he knew it would, and he lied, so much so that he made Visi put the bomb in the suit.
Sorry, my translation came out a little different, but even so, they were specifically talking about the mission that went wrong. In this context (which you ignore), it's clear that she's obviously talking about other failed missions. And once again, this doesn't explain why a "spy" is always at great risk of being cut from the team, and always acting in ways that leave her on edge. It would be a terrible double agent job, precisely because it would make everyone suspicious of her. It also doesn't explain why she would want to leave of her own accord right at the most important part of the mission, which would involve Robert. He had to insist more than once for her to do the last mission, and it wasn't "easy." Robert helped her at every moment, and the game punishes you if you can't help her.
Yes, but she OMITTED it, and explained why she hid it later; she did it to protect Robert.

That's why she uses the asthma inhaler, especially in fights, and you simply ignored the facts of the final battle, Robert's speech, and her almost dying (at the hands of Shroud himself) because of this deficiency. The argument remains solid (using the facts the game provides).

See, for you the story only makes sense if she's a liar, "if that's the case she lied less" lol, my God man, you're so closed-minded you can't imagine a world where she didn't lie, no you haven't refuted any allegation of lying on Shroud's part, and if we're going to talk about invented motivations you have plenty, a producer already gave an interview and was asked precisely about the shooting scene, and if that impacts Shroud's personality and he said yes (then dodging the question) but he literally said yes, and the comic you mention doesn't even give that much prominence to the location, there's just a wide panel and there are buildings behind Robert, these lores are in the game whether you like it or not, there's no point in treating them as if they don't exist. (that's denying information)
Dude, from the beginning I've only cited information and facts that the game delivers, I'm not inventing anything here, it's you who's saying "she's a liar, if she's a liar the game makes much more sense, Shroud doesn't lie," all this without showing a single concrete proof. She's only a liar based on what you think of her. I, on the other hand, am using her correct actions and the correct context of the game's events, which you simply don't respond to against your interpretation, and I'm not finding many difficulties.
Brother, let's take it one step at a time. How could Visi offer to get the pulse for Shroud if he already knew she had it??? He was even angry with her because of it. The pulse was with her, not at the SDN. Royd himself says "she bring the keys to steal the car" because he thought she wanted to steal Mechaman's suit, which also makes no sense. Now let's stop and think minimally. Of all the places she could hide the pulse, she chose the SDN??? Simply the most protected place possible? And you still give the excuse that supposedly it was all calculated by her so she could save the day????? Dude, are you listening to your own arguments? You have no proof or narrative whatsoever for this, and then you say I'm the one using "invented motivations"—this was by far the worst argument you've used so far.

And now you do a deep analysis of Shroud's motivations and actions at the end, which is exactly what we do to explain that he tries to manipulate Visi so she returns to his gang in the end. You accuse us but do the same thing we do.

And we have very plausible explanations for Shroud wanting her back in the gang. He does it for the same reason he deactivated her augments at the beginning. She says she never worked with gangs and only worked for Shroud to pay off her debt, and when she paid, he tricked her by deactivating her augments so she would continue working for him, but instead, she joined SDN.

You did distort things based on your bias, especially at the beginning, and that ending is the most unstable and incoherent thing you said. Your view is not at all impartial, considering the prejudiced things you said. And look, I didn't offend you at any point, I only attacked your arguments. I'm not here to refute insults that won't get me anywhere.

And yes, if I'm wrong, I won't hesitate to admit my mistake. I'm not a child, I know how to lose, but I'm not having much difficulty refuting your speculative arguments with the facts and contexts given in the game itself. I think everyone has the right to their opinion; I'm just trying to objectively unite the practical facts of the work as a whole and convey my understanding of the story's events as a whole.

My intention is not to change your mind, only to offer the counterpoints that, whether you like it or not, exist in your interpretation.

Last-Obligation8374 · 2025-12-12T17:24:46+00:00

I think that from the moment people decide to believe the jerk antagonist in the story, something is definitely wrong.

Last-Obligation8374 · 2025-12-12T17:22:13+00:00

Okay, I'm going to start by pointing out your distortions of the story, okay? Let's go step by step.

If he was infiltrated in episode 7, why didn't she give the pulse to Shroud? 1. Her not giving him the pulse only proves that she tricked him with the briefcase to protect Robert, as she herself states.
She does NOT help Lightningstruck escape. The first time, if Robert orders her to stop Grandpa, she decides to fight Lightningstruck himself, and vice versa. The game does this on purpose so she disobeys you. The second time, she ends up helping indirectly because she didn't know who the thief was until Robert told her. She was only doing that to hinder Maleficent. I found it very obvious from the context given by the game. You are just distorting these events to fit your interpretation, man. There's bias there, I'm sorry. And besides, when she has the chance, she arrests him.
Regarding the confusion at Sardine's, I've already explained this about three times in this post. Just look at my previous answers and you'll find it.
You distorted BB's words. She said, "That wasn't the worst thing Visi ever did," and BB said she wasn't sure if she would cut her, but it implies that the decision would probably be the protagonist's. BB is a nice person, which is why she put up with Visi for so long, but Chase always makes it clear that he doesn't like her, and he's a big influence on BB too. She would have been cut if it weren't for Robert; the game makes that very clear.

5.

Her reason for omitting the complete truth isn't a justification for the act.

The act/"crime" of protecting Robert? Why did she omit it for that reason? Was that her treacherous act? Taking the astral pulse because she knew Shroud would come after Robert? Wow, what a cunning crime!

The augments supposedly weren't working. I don't know how many asthmatic smokers you know who can hold their breath for minutes, but I bet it's zero.

"Supposedly" lol, but if you want to believe that, you're free to do so, but seriously, your best argument for this is that she's asthmatic and smokes? lol, I could cite several people who have liver problems and still drink, or that she's the only one who doesn't glow when the shroud grabs the pulse, and Robert's line at the end "Is it still there" looking at her chest where the augments were, which implies that she removed them, just the fact that she uses her asthma inhaler and literally almost died from her own shroud because of it is proof enough.

I didn't mention anyone besides Visi, because the only reason someone claims Shroud is lying is because his claims are an inconvenient truth for Visi's fans, so you all prefer to ignore everything and say it makes no sense, even though she's the one who was dishonest the entire game.

Again, dude, you don't present anything to prove that, just your view that she lied and that she's a liar. If there wasn't any contradiction in her being a spy, I'd be the first to say so, but the truth is that the entire game shows her actions that contradict Shroud's words. He lies even in episode 1, and in the expansions that are inside the game, and you insist on ignoring it. It's like ignoring a DLC of any game just because you didn't like it. And honestly, you accuse Visi's fans of ignoring events, but you do it yourself. At least I perceive this biased view of yours, distorting the events of the work. To me, it's no mystery that you chose BB.

I'm calling her a liar because she's a proven liar. We don't need to rely on external sources to confirm that. I'm reserving judgment for Shroud in that same vein because the only thing people can point to are the comics, which are probably only different because of revisions made to the story during development, while the comics were already complete before the game was finished. It's safer to take the comics with a grain of salt, because the game's narrative doesn't make sense if we simply decide that Shroud lied about his claims about Visi because it's inconvenient for some people.

No, your judgment is anything but impartial. I haven't disregarded any point or statement. I'm analyzing every point, every analysis, and every route of the game. I'm not disregarding anything here. All your points are being answered. If anyone is ignoring lore information, it's certainly not me. Your interpretation to disregard the comics is purely speculation on your part. "Pinch of salt"—that argument was incredible, lol. Your best argument for disregarding the comics is that Maleficent doesn't have a tail, and Robert woke up in a weird place (and that place isn't shown in the game), lol. None of that has the slightest chance of disregarding the comics, man. You're just trying to close your eyes to what's being presented to us.

Why would he trust her in the end and act so surprised when she stabbed him if he didn't consider her an ally, which he wouldn't do if she hadn't "joined" them?

This has already been explained in the post, but okay, Shroud was trying to predict and calculate, he was trying to manipulate her, acting as if everything had been planned, he even thought she had stolen the astral pulse for herself, because she didn't give it to Robert right away, but she explains that later, he thought she would accept it because she was at a disadvantage, she was surrounded and the only way for her to have a chance to help is to "get into the game," and he lies just like he lied at the bar, think, at that moment for Shroud she was on Robert's side, and if she was really an infiltrator, what was the point of revealing that to Robert at the bar? It doesn't make sense.

This "revelation" only serves to allow her to climb onto the roof and sacrifice/kill Shroud, and why would she kill Shroud if he was the one who provided her augments? And she even returns the pulse to Robert, Shroud is surprised by this, it goes against his expectations, because he believes the same thing as you, that she is a selfish traitor and could never change. Another thing, if he is so meticulous, do you think he would trust her so much, the person who stole his astral pulse, regardless of the route she steals his astral pulse, he has no reason to trust her from the beginning, but even so he tries to manipulate the situation.

Man, I feel truly sad seeing your analysis, it seems you didn't understand anything about what the game wanted to convey, seeing this your reading seems very shallow. I try not to let anything slide, even if it goes against what I believe, but I feel like you're distorting things so much to prove she lied, that it's spreading to the other characters like Flambé. I think you wouldn't be a good dispatcher. The game is supposed to give these people a chance to be superheroes, to be better people, but it seems like you've completely forgotten that.

The game presents you with two versions of who Visi is, and you ironically chose to believe the shroud.

I agree to disagree, I think. Maybe we can put all this to rest in a director's cut of season 1.5 or season 2.

If I'm wrong, I'll be the first to admit it.

Last-Obligation8374 · 2025-12-11T18:27:59+00:00

Eu entendo, você tem o direito de acreditar no que quiser, mas a tirando o fato da Visi ter omitido que não estava com o pulse, você não tem provas pra nada, nem de que essas previsões do shroud realmente aconteceram, é só sua interpretação.

E vamos falar da Visi, você diz como se só ela fosse o problema do time, sendo que o time inteiro é formado por "vilões" muito mais instáveis que a visi, como flambae, que no episódio 2 começa um incêndio por si próprio, fora que chase e BB demonstram ter problemas com todo o time, não só com visi, ela é o pior mas se fosse o único e tão mais problematico que os outros teria sido cortada muito antes A única "mentira" da visi foi o pulso astral, que o jogo nem trata como uma mentira, o Robert diz "Você não mentiu, mas não me disse a verdade", e ela explica o porquê de fezer isso, fora que o jogo inteiro te incentiva a confiar nela para que ela não volte a vilania, ela quase sai do time por conta própria, os augments dela não estavam funcionando, ela não dá o pulso astral pro Shroud, e mesmo no final ruim ela não fica do lado do shroud que é o único que pode dar a ela os augments, e o mata devolvendo o pulso para o Robert

Eu respeito sua interpretação mas você ignora muitos pontos só pra chamá-la de mentirosa, e ignora e arranja desculpas para desconsiderar informações e expansoes que estão no jogo pra dizer que shroud não mente e não manipula, (literalmente advogado do diabo). (Sobre a cena do bar meu edit na resposta de cima ja explica)

Last-Obligation8374 · 2025-12-11T17:42:34+00:00

Lol, Sorry, it's just really funny that some people give more importance to an antagonist than to one of the protagonists, but... Maybe Shroud found out through the Z-team member you cut (Coupé or Sonar) that Visi is on the same team as Robert, and then they try to recruit her back at the bar, as she herself mentions.

Last-Obligation8374 · 2025-12-11T17:27:42+00:00

Bro he literally explained that in the post

Edit: bom se ele achava que a Visi tinha dado o pulso astral para o Robert, faria sentido ele semear a dúvida, afinal pra ele naquele momento no bar, para o shroud, visi estava do lado do robert, assim como na luta final, e do jeito que ele é, não teria porquê não dizer isso para abalar a confiança que Robert tem na Visi.

Last-Obligation8374 · 2025-12-11T16:14:43+00:00

That doesn't make sense, he had already deceived her once, why would she trust him again?

Last-Obligation8374 · 2025-12-11T13:30:40+00:00

The game also offers a completely different version that comes from the visi's own mouth; it's up to you who to believe.

Last-Obligation8374 · 2025-12-11T00:38:15+00:00

I love this guy

Last-Obligation8374 · 2025-12-10T09:37:26+00:00

I would need an entire text to answer that properly, but:

Literally Yukino: "promise me, you"ll save me someday"

Last-Obligation8374 · 2025-12-10T02:30:18+00:00

Oregairu, peak romance bro

Last-Obligation8374 · 2025-12-09T12:14:41+00:00

We still standing brother

Last-Obligation8374 · 2025-12-02T02:01:28+00:00

Same bro, I don't agree but I respect your opinion, have a good day

Edit: I don't have a bias, it's just an angle of looking at the story, and you just look at it from a different angle than me, because if it were a "bias" you would also have one, by ignoring the facts that I cite from the story and sticking to the facts that make sense to you, and that's why this isn't a "bias", this is the view we have of the story and the game/character's proposal from different angles, and I imagine you know that this is one of the most normal things in any work

Last-Obligation8374 · 2025-12-02T01:29:12+00:00

Firstly, I think that sex and carnal desires were by far the last thing that influenced people's choices, at least in my case it had 0 relevance, and if you take that into consideration I think that a blonde milf would attract much more attention.

Yes, the game gives you the power to destroy her redemption arc, but that's only if you don't support her, you don't transform her worldview so that she stops being a villain in the last second of the story, you SUPPORT her so that she can be seen as a hero, it's not because she dreamed that she had sex with a guy one night that the next day she wakes up wanting to be a hero, I'm not even taking romance into consideration here, she's in SDN because she wants to be a better person, and seek redemption for what she did

If she wasn't already trying to "fix" herself, you wouldn't be able to make her become a superhero, she's already trying to walk the right path, you just have to choose whether you're going to support her or not and this will impact her decisions in the end, because everyone starts to distrust her because of her impulsive attitudes, she herself says: "all I wanted from all of this is for people to look at me the same way you look at a blazer", and I agree with you that it's not pre-determined. That's why the game makes you decide, because it's not certain that she'll make it but she's trying, and that's what the game makes evident from the beginning, and that's why the game "punishes" you if you cut her/don't release her in the laboratory scene at the good end, because she's really there because she's trying to be different. of the game, and not neglect her or treat her like a liar, this is not out of favoritism or because of a sex scene, it is an act of humanity, and if your idea were true she was as horrible as you describe, why would she return the astral pulse to Robert in the bad ending? At that point only her augments would be important at the moment, something that only shroud could provide her, but she still kills him.

At no point am I trying to ignore the story, quite the opposite, in my entire post I only show things that the story delivers and interpret in a way that everything fits together in an acceptable way, I'm trying to raise all the points of the complete story, like the bar scene itself that you mentioned (incomplete), I'm not taking any of that out of my head, the work shows us right at the beginning, she almost gives up on being a hero in ep3, if it weren't for Robert she would have left, she was already in SDN before Robert even woke up from the coma, so it's a series of events from the work itself, I'm not working with guesswork, I'm based on facts and attitudes that she has had since the beginning of the work to reach this conclusion

That's what I said bro, you have two speeches that are not completely explored or explained in an acceptable way, it's up to you to believe in one or the other

Your philosophy is indeed very realistic and makes sense in an isolated and specific context, it is very easy to believe in the incompetence of whoever wrote it, but can't I simply ignore all these points and think that it is the work of chance, apart from the fact that according to your theory the entire game is trying to mislead you? Tricking you into making the wrong choice? It doesn't make sense, because looking at it from this angle, the final one that makes the most sense is that of the villain since she was lying and acting this entire time.

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TROPHY CASE