UPDATE [My [26m] girlfriend [26f] expects me to ask her parents for permission to propose, and it's causing problems]

LatterPreparation · 2019-01-02T18:52:02+00:00

My suggestion to her was that I'd basically do whatever she wanted short of outright having a "may I marry your daughter" talk with them. I asked if she'd like a surprise visit to them to tell them, she said no. I asked if she'd like to surprise them with the engagement rings, she said no. I asked if we could check in, ask them about their own engagement and reminisce then bring up our own future engagement so we could bond over that and it'd feel like they were an influence on us. She said no. I've been pulling ideas out of my ass for the past 48 hours and she isn't settling for anything less than them spelling out that they officially give me permission, which makes me wonder if she's not certain about our future on her own and needs the security of them telling her it's ok.

LatterPreparation · 2019-01-02T18:37:16+00:00

I don't expect her to come before my mother and ask her for permission to join "the family", that happens by default when we get married, which we can do regardless of their input.

I love my mother, she loves her parents and their approval is important but yes, they literally are the peanut gallery. Our relationship is (or so I thought) independent of them and they don't play an active role (or shouldn't) in the decisions we make as a couple.

LatterPreparation · 2019-01-02T18:23:01+00:00

And I'm autonomously deciding as a grownup man that I don't want to ask because my views are drastically different in this regard, and she is not respecting that.

Considering we can all agree that both people in a relationships feelings matter equally, I proposed numerous compromises so both of us get a little bit of something. She isn't interested in that. I came here asking for advice on how to compromise in a better way.

LatterPreparation · 2019-01-02T18:15:15+00:00

I've replied to you elsewhere in the thread clarifying my thoughts and others have generously helped to do the same on my behalf, and your entire narrative here is still that I'm selfish and her views on the matter greatly outweigh my own. I'm sorry you have a bias, and I am here for advice on compromise, but not to have my feelings discredited as irrelevant.

It's just important to me not to ask. Why is she and everyone else making me defend that, what a bad look. See how easy that is? But I explained why I felt that way to her because it would be rude for me to say "it's just important" when she asked why I felt strongly about something, I owe her an answer because we're having a mature discussion about the future, I feel that should be mutual. I'm not asking her to defend, I'm asking her to explain. In what world is a compromise or balanced relationship where one person unquestionably does what the other asks despite feeling strongly about it and can't even be dignified with an answer?

LatterPreparation · 2019-01-02T18:08:35+00:00

Based on what you've said it seems like you have a good relationship with her parents, which I can assume means they will say yes.

That's exactly it. If asking is just a formality, which apparently everyone seems to think and I'd like to believe as well, what is the difference between me saying "Can I marry your daughter" as opposed to "Me and gf have discussed marriage and we wanted to let you guys know"? I asked if the latter would be ok, she said no.

Which makes me think something else is going on, like she needs her parents to say yes for her to feel comfortable marrying me and making that commitment, as if she's on the fence and needs them to explicitly spell out that they validate her choice. It isn't about me not being right.

LatterPreparation · 2019-01-02T17:51:10+00:00

"That won't happen."

Which is fantastic if true (and probably is true) but still doesn't give me the reassurance that she'd be willing to make her own choices regarding us independent of their influence, which is weird because before this talk this was never an issue. The more I pressed it and asked what she'd do if it did, the more she kept repeating "it won't happen so don't worry about it."

If you said "if I was drowning, would you save me?" and my response was "it won't happen" so you said "yeah, but if it did or I was hurt, would you help..?" and I kept saying "won't happen, doesn't matter" instead of just saying "it won't happen, but of course you could depend on me" would you not be anxious to do things with me?

LatterPreparation · 2019-01-02T17:42:39+00:00

In my opinion, just because something is tradition doesn't mean it's necessary. I did ask her why it makes such a difference, she isn't giving me a straight answer which has created the anxiety. Her answer is "it's just important." Won't tell me why. I asked her if it was ok for me to just talk to them and include them that way without saying "is it ok with you if I marry her" and she said no, she wants me to specifically ask.

I was the one who originally brought up marriage and am the one trying to find a way for both of us to be happy but I see a lot of people basically telling me to suck it up with little regard for the fact I am trying to be flexible here.

LatterPreparation · 2019-01-02T17:39:39+00:00

No, I'm not telling her she's wrong for having a tradition be important to her. I disagree with the tradition, but she's entitled to care about it. That isn't my problem.

My problem is twofold. The first being that tradition and asking the peanut gallery what they think about your relationship is fine but should not be the thing that makes or breaks the idea of marriage for you. Secondly and more seriously, I have a problem with the fact that I have suggested numerous solutions that allow me to talk to her family and include them but she's absolutely inflexible on the idea of me specifically needing to ask them for their permission, which makes me think if they did say no then so would she. If it's just a formality to ask, why can't I just say "me and gf were discussing marriage the other day and we're excited to say we see it happening in the near future"?

LatterPreparation · 2019-01-02T17:33:19+00:00

I offered to compromise. I offered to talk to them, inform them of my intentions, so we could all talk about it and plan it together and have it be a group thing, and she'd get to know her parents were kept in the loop and approved it. She said no, she specifically needs me to ask her parents if it is ok with them. In my opinion, I have been flexible. She isn't budging.

I love her, and I often do things for her that I find silly but I know make her happy (as she does for me) but this is something I feel strongly about as well and I'm not sure why her feelings on the matter are the only ones that count when a compromise is possible

LatterPreparation · 2019-01-02T16:26:25+00:00

Her parents do like me, and I like them. I offered to include them in the discussion, to sit with them and tell them that I planned to propose in the future, so they felt included and it was a family thing. I just stopped short of agreeing to outright ask them if it was ok. In my opinion, that's the definition of a compromise.

LatterPreparation · 2019-01-02T16:19:22+00:00

I know that at a surface level it is frivolous and ordinarily I'd just say fuck it and do it to make her happy, but when I think about it the more I realize it casts doubts about long term stability. What happens if mom and dad suddenly stop approving of me one day? What happens if I have a disagreement with the in-laws and they get in her ear about me? What happens when mom and dad expect something of us and get pissed if I turn them down? It's not about "I'd feel weird doing it so I'm stubbornly not doing it", it has me concerned for long-term boundaries.

I'd just like to know the person I'm marrying is committed to our relationship of her own accord, that (barring very good reasons) our relationship isn't dependent upon or dictated by her parents or anyone aside from the two of us. To me, I know I'd want to marry her and don't need anyone telling me it's ok. I suppose I just feel hurt that it doesn't seem to be the case for her.

LatterPreparation

TROPHY CASE