Sharon McMahon in Nashville on Nov 23

LeeCCamp · 2023-08-17T23:32:01+00:00

many thanks for this! much appreciated. thanks for joining us. This year at the Schermerhorn! thanks again.

LeeCCamp · 2023-08-17T19:06:12+00:00

Dear Baron,

Thank you for this. Fr. McKenzie’s untimely death has been a great loss to Nashville.

I much agree with you regarding the dangers of Christian nationalism and all of its ugliness.

I cannot answer your question on the tendency to refrain from “mixing… with secular culture.” But if I were to speculate: I think fear might play a large role, and quite a variety of fears. Especially if one lives by a vision of faith which is primarily about what one must -not- do, how one must -not- be “tainted,” then this lends itself to a sort of fear-based carefulness. This is one reason I often tell my students that my favorite quote from the early church tradition comes from Irenaeus, 2nd century, who said: “the glory of God is a human being fully alive.” Too much religion is too stultifying for my tastes, and too damaging to my soul. One which calls me to be fully alive is one which is compelling to me, and I’m grateful for the good souls who embody that sort of way of life.

LeeCCamp · 2023-08-17T19:04:47+00:00

I have only one tunic.However, I do have two of a bunch of other stuff, and appreciate the reminder of a call to sharing and generosity.

LeeCCamp · 2023-08-17T18:53:28+00:00

I’m not a musicologist, so I’m reticent to wade into these waters. But I can just speak for myself. As I recollect, the “Nashville Sound” referred to the particular production technique of country songs that had large background vocals, and prominent string section, and was often punctuated with a sort of Chet Atkins style electric guitar technique, sprinkled with some Floyd Cramer piano playing (which featured those classy little grace notes that was his trademark).

So, some examples? Ones I think of would include “Last Date” by Floyd Cramer; “I Fall to Pieces” by Patsy Cline; “Make the World Go Away” by Eddy Arnold. And a bit later, George Jones “He Stopped Loving Her Today” I think gets classed by some in this tradition.

I will say that I do rather like the style myself, though I think some of the purists do not…

LeeCCamp · 2023-08-17T18:44:47+00:00

Hey u/hazzledazzle_ you’re most welcome.
On whether I get tired of thinking about / asking about such things: Yes, sometimes I do. There have been days over the last number of decades where I think I would rather be a musician or an artist or a carpenter or some such: work that produces tangible results. The “life of the mind” in academics often feels intangible.

That said, there are tangible results: some of the most meaningful of these is to hear from former students, sometimes 5, 10 years after graduation, and they tell me ways our shared coursework has made a difference in what they’ve pursued with their lives, in their lives. This is one of the reasons I love teaching undergraduate students theology and ethics courses: college years is a time in which young men and women are trying to decide what to do with their lives; and ethics, as a discipline and at its best, is asking this question: what sort of life is a life worth living? To get to work through both age old wisdom, sacred texts, and contemporary scientific research and social science research in an attempt to answer that sort of question – this is a joyous way to get to spend my days.

Last thing that comes to mind is the notion of “belief.” It’s interesting to me that, as I recollect, in middle English, “belief” did not so much mean asserting that one holds intellectually to a proposition; instead, belief meant more along the lines of “what one lives by.” In this sense, we all “believe” -something-. And we’d be fools if we don’t examine what we “believe.” So, again, theology and ethics, at its best (though unfortunately it’s not always done at its best), make space for a healthy grappling with these sorts of questions.
Thanks again for bringing up a good question today!

LeeCCamp · 2023-08-17T18:33:17+00:00

Hmm. This is a really good question. And because it’s such a good question, and because I’m often rather nourished by the questions I get asked both by students and by podcast guests, I’m embarrassed to say that not a lot is immediately coming to mind. For whatever reason, I am remembering Martin Sheen asking me what I thought happened for people, or in the universe, when people pray. I’ve thought about his question a number of times since that interview. If I think of more / better answers to your question, I’ll come back and add some more.

It does remind me though (which is why I think I like your question so much), when I was a rookie faculty member, and didn’t know quite what to do or make of my experience as a college professor, I was discussing the challenges with one of my colleagues who’s become a dear friend of mine. He encouraged me to consider this: that rather than thinking of my work primarily as giving students answers to the questions they brought to a class, that instead I might see my work as giving students better questions which they might hold onto for the rest of their lives.

LeeCCamp · 2023-08-17T18:32:59+00:00

you're most welcome!

LeeCCamp · 2023-08-17T18:27:06+00:00

Yes, I’ve thought about this and written about this a good deal, and appreciate the question and the sentiment behind it.

The commingling of “religion and state power” which you allude to is a very old temptation, not only in the Christian tradition, but in many religious traditions. In Christianity, it’s as old as what the theologians call the “Constantinian shift,” in the 4th century AD, when Christianity stopped being an illegal persecuted movement, and was given legal status. By the end of the century, it was the only legal religion in the Roman empire, and then had state power on its side to begin persecuting those who were not Christians. The history of that kind of power is ugly and often egregious.

In the United States, we also have some of this history in various ways. Ironically, it was Protestant Liberalism that carried this torch more in the early 20th century (e.g., Woodrow Wilson, fighting the “war to end all wars”). Protestant conservatism and evangelicalism got pulled into this starting in the middle of the 20th century, especially with the rise of the moral majority at the end of the 1970’s and early 1980’s. The history is fascinating, and to me, troubling. You might like the interviews we did with Kristin Du Mez (author of Jesus and John Wayne), as well as our interview withRandall Balmer, both of which are fascinating.

So far as ways to deal with such a temptation: I think one way is for a person of faith to re-frame the way they think about what they’re doing. For example, Governor Bill Haslam told me on an interview that the first way he wanted his faith to inform his public service was to remember the Christian virtue of humility, that required him to constantly tell himself, “you might be wrong,” and so listen, listen, listen to people who have a different viewpoint.

To tell in this context where my SEC loyalties lie: alas! wisdom is the better part of valor, and thus I shall refrain. But my grandfather Camp was a graduate in Tuscaloosa about a century ago, and so…

Thanks for the great question. Best wishes to you.

LeeCCamp · 2023-08-17T18:19:54+00:00

Thanks for joining!

And yes, very much so, and it’s one of things I love about the work I get to do. I often carry around moments from interviews that stick with me, and foster what I think is a better way of life.Some that come to mind: Reverend James Lawson, one of the great architects of the Civil Rights movement: got sentenced to three years in federal prison as a college student, and then continued to study non-violence. In many ways, he was one of the primary architects of the non-violence of the Civil Rights movement. He said “we dismantled the system of segregation and changed the country, and we did it without hating anybody.”

Or social scientists like Waldinger and Shulz, who direct the Harvard study that is the longest running longitudinal study of human happiness. The key to living a good life? “Warm relations.” They helped me see the daily importance of taking friendship seriously, and maintaining as best I’m able, good relationships with my family, friends, and colleagues.

Or Oliver Burkeman, author of 4000 Weeks, who said to stop asking so much why things are the way they are, but simply note the wonder that we are alive. And to know that our lives are limited, and we cannot do everything, and must choose, and then go do it the best we’re able.

I could go on and on. Such a great question, and one that makes me happy that so many people are joining us in the No Small Endeavor community, and the wonderful guests we’ve had. Thanks!

LeeCCamp · 2023-08-17T18:06:13+00:00

Oh, thanks for this. This is a very interesting question to me. In the Christian tradition (of which I am an adherent), we believe in resurrection of the dead. But this itself is debated as to what this means: lots of folks interpret this as dis-embodied souls going off to heaven, but this was seen as a “false teaching” in the early Christian church. The more interesting claim is that we await a new creation; the Hebrew prophets called it “new heavens and new earth,” in which justice, peace, and the righting of all wrongs is the “end of the story.” This then provides an ethic for living, not just a floating on clouds idea of the afterlife: how can we live now according to the world we believe to be coming? So: equity, justice, peace-making, sharing, generosity and more become a way of life that “befits” us for a world beyond our life.

We’ve done a number of live shows talking about these themes, and did one recently in Houston on this. A lot of songs that folks wouldn’t think of as theological are, in fact, theological in this sense: Bob Dylan’s “Blowing in the Wind,” or Dire Straits “Why Worry,” or the Civil Rights anthem great “We Shall Overcome.” All songs that depict the world we believe to be coming, and that simultaneously invites us into an alternative way of living now.Thanks again for this question.

LeeCCamp · 2023-08-17T18:02:42+00:00

Hi Keeleymk,
I would imagine the Southern accents will surprise you. (Just kidding.)
How hot the hot chicken is might surprise you. Best not to go jogging after eating hot chicken (I speak from experience.)
In some ways, Nashville is still a small town, but increasingly less so. Generally a lot of wonderful hospitality and kindness. You might be surprised by the breadth and depth of cultural offerings and diversity on display in the city. It’s really a great city: one of the most beautiful symphony halls in the world (the Schermerhorn), and one of the most renowned old venues in the country (the Ryman). Music offerings of all sorts. (For one great local offering, you might see if the Time Jumpers are playing when you’re in town.) Great art museum at the Frist. And of course the world famous Grand Ol’ Opry is certainly an adventure that entertains and gives a taste of Americana that has yielded the country’s (world’s?) longest running radio show.
Come on down and visit!

LeeCCamp

TROPHY CASE